Octogenarian romances? Who has had experience with this with their parents/in-laws?

They made it to London yesterday around noon. Mil posted some pics from their hotel and then later some of Westminster, Big Ben, etc. later yesterday afternoon.

I had the play wrong - they saw a matinee of Phantom of the Opera today. Tomorrow they are taking a boat up the Thames to Greenwich. Bob is very into boats/sailing/naval stuff. He was a founding member of a local sailing club. My guess is that, as is the case with doing the Transatlantic crossing 20 times, and seeing the same play over and over, he has been to Greenwich many times. Mil has been to the UK a few times, but Greenwich will be new for her.

They fly back to our town on Monday. I was mistaken - she has four (not three) nights with Bob back at the CCRC until the halfway handoff to sil on Friday.

I texted mil about our having lunch on Wednesday or Thursday. She said she would and also said Bob and she had thought they would have us over for drinks one evening. So, hopefully, both will happen. However, I’m not mentioning either to sil until they do happen. Or are about to happen. I don’t think she will mind my having lunch with mil (maybe a bit jealous that I hear from her F2F before she does about the trip). Not sure how sil will feel about our going over for drinks, but I certainly couldn’t decline. Besides, I have ulterior motives. I want to see his place, AND I want to observe their interactions after having spent this longer stretch of time together.

I am trying to tread carefully and not get triangulated with mil and sil. I’m not trying to keep anything from sil, BUT I could also see neither of these (lunch with mil and drinks with both) coming to fruition.

16 Likes

Nothing wrong with you getting to talk to MIL first as y’all have proximity, which your SIL has almost every day of the year. Can’t wait to hear how her visit went!

8 Likes

That seems so fast (the cruise) after keeping us all waiting all summer! I’m glad it all went well and hope she got to have High Tea at Sea.

8 Likes

Yes, it does seem like the cruise was shorter than the suspense. Haha! I do hope she was able to have her tea and other things she had wanted. We look forward to hearing more — thanks so much for sharing this fascinating journey!

5 Likes

This is a great travel opportunity. We love traveling with folks who know the drill in a particular destination. (This Oct we get to be the familiar guides… taking our kids to London after a trip of our own last year.) It’s just nice to not have to navigate all the unfamiliar places and sights. Even on a cruise ship it would be a big benefit to have that expertise.

Who knows… perhaps they will just be travel buddies, even if the other ideas don’t work out.

6 Likes

Any updates @Hoggirl ?!?!

4 Likes

Bob got a fever the night before (Sunday) they flew back. Mil supposedly woke him up every three hours to give him Tylenol. That was the plan anyway. They made it back on Monday as scheduled arriving at the CCRC around 9:30 pm.

He couldn’t get in to see the doctor at the CCRC yesterday, but he is going today at 9:00 am. I offered to drop Covid tests on their doorstep, but mil declined saying the doc could test today. Well, he won’t test HER! But, maybe they’ll send one home with him for her. Hopefully, that isn’t what Bob has. Especially since they flew on Monday and went to both the bistro and dining hall at the CCRC yesterday! So irresponsible.

I’m surprised the on-site clinic didn’t test him or offer him at least a take-home test yesterday, but idk how forthcoming he was in describing his symptoms.

They must still be getting along fine as mil didn’t ask us to come rescue her and bring her to our house when they got back.

Mil and I are supposed to go to lunch today, but if Bob tests positive for Covid, that won’t be happening. Also, I think sil will delay her willingness to pick up mil on Friday if that is the case.

I spent an inordinate amount of time yesterday getting our group text with mil, sil, and me sorted out. Mil could see my texts. Sil could see my texts, but sil couldn’t see mil’s texts in our group. Samsung-using Sil had started using her iPad for texting so the three of us could continue our group text while mil was abroad since mil said communicating on FB Messenger was, “weird.” Mil’s texts continued to go as iMessages on the group text after she arrived state-side. Many screen shots to mil with circling of how to turn off WiFi, how to turn off iMessaging, etc. Finally got it so mil’s texts are now going as SMS on the group text. All frustrating.

I will report back if mil and I go to lunch.

11 Likes

Hope it’s not covid!

1 Like

Not Covid, not the flu. Bob has a terrible cough and feels crappy. They gave him Claritin and Flonase.

I just texted and offered to take just mil to lunch either today or tomorrow or to Happy Hour tonight at a little bar Dh and I like. Dh has run group this evening, so it would just be mil and me. The four of us will not be gathering at Bob’s place for drinks tomorrow night.

Waiting to hear back from her. She needs to hurry up if she wants lunch out today. It’s 11:30 here.

We really hoped communication would improve upon her return stateside, but it has not. Sil had to specifically ask her how Bob was. She waited an hour and a half after his scheduled appointment to inquire. Don’t know how mil is feeling. She felt fine yesterday.

4 Likes

It might help all of you to recalibrate on what constitutes “good communications”.

I don’t think expecting instantaneous responses (texts, emails, voice mail, group chat/whatsapp) is going to happen- and even if it’s been your family’s norm in the past, it’s certainly not EVERYONE’s norm, and is not a sign that you’re being frozen out.

I’d be PO’d with any member of my family (or friend, for that matter) who considered a few hours response time problematic.

So maybe get on the same page-- which will reduce your anxiety level AND will give your MIL (a fully grown woman, this isn’t a fifth grader taking the city bus alone for the first time) some expectation of “Mom, we worry if we don’t hear back from you within 24 hours of one of us sending you a message” without hovering.

Yes?

The BEST thing that happened to me when my MIL went into Assisted Living was that SHE no longer expected instant turnaround. You’d call her back and she’d be at a lecture, attending a floral arranging workshop, hanging out with her new neighbors on the terrace drinking lemonade. What an incredible relief after two years of her widowhood when she had NOTHING to do but vacuum, call her kids and leave “call me back” messages, and watch CNN. We all had to get used to the new normal- she had places she wanted to be and didn’t want to miss book club to talk to her kids!!! So much healthier for everyone!!!

15 Likes

So he has allergies?

Even though I understand @blossom point. I also understand that there are times a quick answer is helpful.

Like a lunch invite. Or know if you are going to pick someone up in a couple of days or there’s Covid in the household.

Saying that my mom doesn’t carry her phone with her so getting an answer is sometimes difficult.

6 Likes

So, I guess MIL is learning how Bob behaves when he’s feeling sub-par. That’s useful info as there can be a lot of “subpar” days as we age. I hope you are able to meet MIL for lunch and learn whatever you can about how she’s really feeling and what she may want going forward. Sounds like a lot for her to process.

6 Likes

Mil and I had lunch today!

I intentionally began our conversation spending a lot of time talking to her about the trip itself - the food, the entertainment, the hotel and the play in London, what they did in Greenwich, etc.

Eventually I turned to talking about Bob. I think I have a huge advantage over sil in that I am not nearly as emotionally invested as she. The long and the short of it is that they are clearly continuing to talk about her moving up here. She said Bob would have her move in tomorrow/doesn’t want her to go back home on Friday. I think he is giving a hard sales pitch on the benefits of the CCRC.

I tried to only point out facts - I said nothing negative about Bob. She is the one who would be making all the sacrifices - the financial impact plus leaving her town of 65 years, selling her home, leaving her friends, neighbors, card groups, and her church (should have thrown in docs and hairdresser!). She got angry at one point in the convo and said, “Daughter is totally against this!” I didn’t address that directly - she’s not wrong; my sil is totally against this. Instead I replied, “Mil, if after only spending a month face-to-face with a girl ds decided to completely uproot his life and move to a different town and get married, I would be very concerned.” I acknowledged that she isn’t 28 years old as ds is, but this was moving very fast. That’s when she said she wouldn’t do anything until the end of the year. Something Friend D had already reported.

I then asked her directly, “If you moved up here, would you marry him?” and she said, “Yes.” I asked why she would feel a need to do that and she said because of her upbringing. I find this completely silly given what they are clearly doing now, but I didn’t point that out.

She has NOT liked dealing with Bob being sick. She has NOT liked taking care of him. She said he has been grumpy and unpleasant. I pointed out that many people are that way when sick. Her response was, “He needs to be healthy!” Ummmmm, okay. I simply told her that wasn’t guaranteed - for anybody. I said you could move up here, and he could have a stroke two days later.
You could have a stroke two days later! All that to say, I think his sickness has been a good reality check for her.

She has also said he likes spending all their time together. She has told him she needs friends. I do think she sees some, “cons,” related to Bob and making a move.

Anyway, I felt good about our conversation. I think things are awfully tense between her and sil. And between her and some of her friends. They ALL tend to sort of overreact and, “attack,” her judgment and tell her reasons why she shouldn’t move forward with this. I suppose I sort of did that, too, but I stayed calm and acknowledged that she gets to make her own decisions.

@blossom - on the communication. I do not disagree that an adjustment in expectations on communicating frequency may be warranted. However, I think most of our frustrations have been with mil not following through with what she has said she would do. As an example, Mil and I had previously talked about lunch. I didn’t throw this offer up 15 minutes before noon and expect an immediate reply. We talked about it days ago. Had previously decided on Wednesday. Then with the sickness, she said she would touch base after Bob’s MD appointment about whether we should go. She didn’t. I had to reach out to her. She said she would message sil and me after the play in London. She didn’t. She said she, “hoped to be texting us from Atlanta.” She didn’t. They had a five hour layover. We waited 2.5 hours after they landed before we texted her. So, the main frustration is her claiming she will communicate and then not. Perhaps she is forgetting, but it just feels inconsiderate.

9 Likes

I have no idea. I will say mil was impressed with the care/appointment at the CCRC. Said it was very thorough.

1 Like

I vote for Bob to keep his place, MIL to keep her place and they can take turns “visiting” at both places. Maybe one week a month. On goes to her place, one week a month she goes to his. Why should she have to give up everything she has known in her town of 65 years? Bob could show a little interest and consideration in her life there as well.

I’m not loving Bob right now!! :wink:

14 Likes

That would be a grand idea, but for the transportation problems. He does drive by himself to see her, but he does not go on the interstate. No idea how long that takes him going on back roads. Mil will not drive by herself from her town to his (ours). It’s a three hour trip on the interstate.

That was an informative lunch and it sounds like you were able to assess where she was at by knowing how (and why) she may get defensive, and you were wise about how you asked questions and provided feedback.

And MIL’s defensiveness around this could be a dangerous inflection point, e.g. MIL digs in because she doesn’t want SIL and others to “tell her what to do,” so she does move to Bob’s impulsively as she doesn’t want to admit that they are “right” about having reservations about this arrangement. She decides to show people that she knows her own mind and they don’t!

But Bob’s hard sell and accelerated timeline and not wanting her to go back home are huge red flags to me. He wants her not to have time to think.

Furthermore, regarding Bob being sick and being grumpy and unpleasant with her: if this is how he acts when sick during the “Cloud Nine courtship weeks,” I hope she can see (to be blunt) that this is him when he is putting on his absolute best for her, and it is only downhill from here any time he isn’t feeling 100% healthy.

How do I think Bob will be when he thinks he’s hooked her? When she’s moved in and he’s got his new wife? If he’s grumpy and unpleasant within the first few weeks of them spending time together…?

As they say: if it’s not easy when it’s easy, that’s a sure sign that it’s going to be hard.

If he isn’t pleasant when he’s not feeling well in just the first couple of weeks of spending time together, he’s going to be a lot worse to be around when he doesn’t feel like he needs to try anymore.

And I couldn’t agree with you more on that, too.

12 Likes

Thanks for update @Hoggirl. Sounds like you were very diplomatic but I hope she sees how she’s eliminating her options if she sells her house and things don’t work as she optimistically envisions.

I see a lot of red flags, with Bob trying to rush her into moving in and not wanting her to go back home to think and have a better perspective. Waiting until end of the year at very soonest is a much sounder idea.

I also agree that if he’s grumpy and disagreeable now while he’s trying to woo her, she’s ain’t seen nothing yet! My H and his buddies are all in their 80s and many many days they have aches and pains and feel “sub-par.” Sadly the “healthy” and “feeling great” days are few and far between, but they still work at being pleasant and agreeable, WITH their aches and pains.

Falls are also very common, especially among elderly and require extended rehab and can take a very long time recovering and often recoveries are only partial—as you said no guarantees on anyone being or remaining “healthy.” Marriages are “SICKNESS AND health,” especially as we age.

As you have mentioned, Bob has an awful record of sticking with wives when they aren’t “healthy.”

8 Likes

The CCRC is also trying to impress. One needs to find out how it is when they AREN’T trying to impress. Also what happens to ex-spouses if there is a divorce?

4 Likes

Is there any possibility that she would use an Uber? Or that sil would driver her part way?

1 Like