We are facing a choice. Dd can take extra private lessons from a high level instructor (2 1/2 hr drive 1 way) 2x per month or she can do local youth orchestra (1 of multiple concertmasters….they assigned 1 per concert. Not sure why except there are a lot of srs and they are the other CMs). She can only audition for All State if she does youth orchestra. She has gone the last 2 yrs.
Will any school care if she skips orchestra for 1yr. (Orchestra might care….not sure how that will in turn work out next yr. I’ll have to find out.)
We have the ability and time this yr for the extra lessons. No idea about next yr. But dd wonders if focusing on personal repertoire and technique this yr is a better choice. But….we don’t know if skipping orchestra will be frowned upon.
Is your daughter planning to apply to audition based music programs and/or submit a music supplement? She may not have yet decided as a 10th grader.
My opinion is that the level of play far outweighs any resume of playing in a youth orchestra or all state orchestra. Unless the youth orchestra is NYO or of that level.
So I would advise the route of lessons with a high level teacher (assuming that this is also what your daughter wants to do)
Both my kids dropped youth orchestra at age 12/13 to focus on lessons, practicing, and chamber music. (They still did get weekly chamber orchestra, but that’s way less time commitment.) Most of the top kids in the precollege program here don’t do the youth orchestra…and they have no problems getting into Curtis, Colburn, Juilliard, etc.
I would make the choice that is most beneficial to her musical development.
Definitely not All State. Not enough info on the youth orchestra. Is there a conservatory prep nearby (precollege program). Is the high level teacher at a conservatory or college?
The youth orchestra is excellent. They have 6 different levels and the symphony level performs high level pieces. Enrollment numbers have dropped the past couple of yrs, though.
The teacher we are considering for this semester is a former student of Dorothy DeLay and recently retired from teaching at the university level. We are too late to join the precollege program that is 2 1/2 hrs away in the opposite direction (who also has a teacher who is a former Dorothy Delay student.) The issue with the precollege program is that it is a weekly commitment. I’m not sure that planning on 5 hrs per week in the car is something I want to commit to without trying it 2x per month initially. I think the teacher that just retired is a good compromise for a trial run.
She tried chamber locally last yr. It was not a good experience. She had a fabulous chamber experience at camp this summer. Unfortunately, that is not a great option locally.
Here is a different perspective on that 5 hours round trip to the great teacher…
When my musician was in HS, he spent way more than 5 hours once a week commuting to the full day he had at his youth orchestra, wind ensemble, chamber group, and 45 minutes each way commuting. And that didn’t include the second day each week of chamber music and his private lessons there…and another day with piano.
I’m not sure I completely understand. Was his commute longer than 5 hrs for the 1 day for all of those options on the same day (orchestra, ensemble, and chamber)? Unfortunately, the only option for the commute regardless of where we go is private lessons. The youth orchestra associated with the precollege program really isn’t superior to our local one. The precollege program does not operate similarly to what I have read about other precollege programs. It is just a bunch of offerings on different days of the week (like the orchestra meets 1 week night. Chamber groups meet other nights. They offer a music theory class, etc, but again, it is on a different night.). For us, being involved in anything other than the private lessons is not an option bc of how they have things scheduled.
Her piano teacher is teaching her the equivalent of AP music theory. She has private violin, piano, and voice lessons every week. It really is just a decision between youth orchestra or the private lessons. Mainly, the decision is between what she wants to spend her time practicing and whether additional input from a different teacher’s perspective is worth it.
On Sundays, he spent longer than 9 hours doing music related things.
On one weekday, he drove 45 minutes each way for a one hour private lesson on his main instrument.
On a second day, he drove closer to home for piano lessons.
The total number of hours my kid spent doing music related activities in HS…every week…is more than what your student would be doing going to the far away excellent teacher for lessons and being in youth ensemble.
I view all state as very optional!
My point being…these things take time…and good time management as well.
I will add, my kid did change main instrument teachers in grade 11…recommended by the teacher he had in grades 9 and 10. This was an excellent decision because the grade 11-12 private teacher was outstanding, was principal trumpet in our symphony, and also had unbelievable knowledge of the music performance college landscape which was very very helpful also.
But yes…it’s time. But it might be time well spent!
The feasibility of commutes is so family-dependent. My kid could read and work in the car. Perfect? No. Doable? Yes. But for us, the combo of where we worked, when we had to be there, a driving age of 17 in our state – it limited what the commitment could be to anything involving lots of driving. OP, do what works for you - your plan sounds reasonable.
Absolutely. And I would add more importantly it is musician kid dependent.
There is so much stress/pressure on developing musicians. A lot of it is good stress, most kids who are high achievers musically thrive on that pressure whether it is their own internal tendency towards perfectionism or hopefully healthy competition with others.
But I think it is very important to trust your kid’s input as they go through the process. Because it is easy for them to keep pushing thinking that more is better or that they need to please all music mentors in their lives. And at some point it can become overwhelming such that it is counterproductive to their growth as a person and as a musician. Bottom line is that music needs to stay positive and fun.
I know we reached a point with my kid around the age of 15 where he had so many commitments that he was starting to hate all of it. Not because he does not like working very hard and being very busy, but because he was not able to be at his best for any of it. And he cannot live with not playing well. Fortunately, he let us know so we could change course with his guidance.
So I will just add, be there for your kid. We as parents cannot lead them, and there is no perfect formula for these years of development. But our amazing musicians seem to figure out what works for them.
Okay I get it I think! I would think no All State and no precollege as you described. So as you wrote in the first place, it is between the extra teacher and the youth orchestra.
Another question: does she prefer chamber music or orchestral work?
So he has a current teacher locally. Or teachers. Does she need to study violin, piano and voice at this point? What is her focus? Would dropping one free up time for orchestra?
Is there a social benefit to orchestra?
Those are all good questions. Her local violin teacher is a fabulous teacher. His explanations are clear. He is focused on form to prevent injury. After attending camp this summer, she is aware of 2 weaknesses in his teaching. 1- he cannot demonstrate nuances that he wants her to implement (he is much older and his playing it not what it once was) and 2- he doesn’t have connections. (Connections are definitely a big thing, but we don’t live in an area where that can really be helped locally. We are near multiple universities, just none with high level music depts.) That is the thinking behind at minimum connecting with another teacher even if it is going to require such a long commute.
Yes to needing piano and voice. She has only been learning piano for a yr. Since all music majors need to be proficient in piano, it will only be to her benefit to reach that level in high school. Her piano teacher is also teaching her music theory. Violin teachers don’t teach theory. So that is another plus for piano.
Music flows through her veins and her voice is actually at a much higher level than her violin. Violin is her fully dug in decision (not for lack of our trying to convince her otherwise. I wish she would abandon the music path as a career choice and save it for pleasure.) But gigging where she both plays and sings is how we are currently getting her to understand what this is going to mean in terms of lifestyle. (She does both for weddings.)
There is definitely a social benefit to orchestra. One of her closest friends is in orchestra and is a sr this yr. That is the biggest draw for playing and the biggest downside for not.
If she could do both, that would be ideal. But orchestra is a 3 1/2 hr commitment bc practice is 2 hrs and we live 45 mins away. The 5+ hrs of commuting is at least somewhat less painful if we don’t have to do both. Alternatively, I guess I could ask the one teacher that is not associated with the precollege program if he could work with her 1 x per month and then she could do both. At least some benefit…
Sigh…I wish she would switch to electrical engineering and then I could forget about all of it.
With colleges and universities nearby, are you certain there isn’t a teacher who could be of benefit closer to home? There are excellent teachers at many schools. It seems the ideal would be to do both the extra teacher and the orchestra.
You and she might benefit from reading the Double Degree Dilemma essay that is pinned at the top of this music major forum.
My kid has a doctorate in music but did a BA, not a BM, and some of her musician peers (doctorates) did undergrad degrees in something other than music (French, English, Computer Science, biology); most did grad work in music. It is possible to have a music career after a BA (approx. 1/4 classes in music) vs BM (3/4 classes in music) by continuing lessons, extracurricular or off campus performance, and summer programs.
But she sounds like a kid who would want the full immersion of a BM program. That does not mean that music has to be her career, either…I know undergrad music majors who work in other areas now (tv production, therapist, non-profit admin…) or went to grad school in something else (Medieval studies, even STEM, for example). My view is that majoring in music is a wonderful experience in and of itself, regardless of career outcome.
If she goes to a conservatory/school of music, will she apply for voice? Does she want classical voice/opera or contemporary or jazz? Sorry for all the questions but as she moves through high school things can become clearer and lots of changes can happen. People ask me what my talent was (I had a music and a dance kid) and my reply was “driving”
