Opinion of the MBA

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I wasn’t sure where this would best go, but I figure that the parents will most likely be able to provide wisdom on this.</p>

<p>So, here’s the story: I’m nearing 30, married, and have a pretty solid career in technology. Short-run, at least, I’m lower management level, very solid salary and benefits, and likely to be middle management/director level in the next few (3-5) years at the current rate, and am fairly satisfied with my career trajectory.</p>

<p>One catch: my graduate degree is kind of weird. I did my master’s in international management at UCSD’s international relations school, thinking I’d go public sector. Instead, I ended up in the private sector after ending up in NYC instead of DC. Thankfully, so far my degree hasn’t been much of a roadblock, if at all.</p>

<p>But it’s not the near future that worries me. It’s the mid-30s and 40s that worries me. At least in my field, I see a lot of MBAs. </p>

<p>Keep in mind, I’m not worrying about salary. Between my soon-to-be physician wife and me, we’re pretty much set. What I’m interested in is the challenges that come with advancement. And really, for me, the MBA is probably not a positive return on investment given that I already have a graduate degree.</p>

<p>What are the mid-career professionals’ opinions of the MBA? I’m talking top 10, maybe top 15 (lowest-ranked program I’d consider would be Anderson). Worth it? I’m getting a lot of mixed opinions, and thought I’d turn this over to the wisdom of the parents crowd here.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I was in a similar position about 20 years ago. Working in tech, making good money, and progressing nicely in my career.</p>

<p>I had applied to and gotten into three of the top ten full time MBA programs - but I made the decision to turn them down and instead go part time at night to get my MBA. Never regretted the decision. </p>

<p>To put it in MBA terms, when I did the analysis, quitting and going full time would have taken 28 years to pay back versus going part-time, with my employer paying the tuition, and retaining my FT job. Given I was 28 at the time, the number has always stuck in my head.</p>

<p>Having said that, there have been many times since that when having an MBA from a decent program has been a real asset in my career. Not the piece of paper - but rather the tools and techniques that I learned going through the program have been useful over and over again.</p>

3

<p>scualum,</p>

<p>That’s the weird situation I’m in. I probably have taken 80% of the average MBA’s coursework plus a ton of econ. I don’t, however, have the fancy three letters.</p>

<p>So, you don’t think the letters matter as much?</p>

4

<p>UCLA, I’ve been contemplating getting mine for awhile now. My company would pay my tuition for me but I just haven’t taken that leap. If I keep working there, it’s not something that would get me an instant “jump in salary” or anything so I just keep putting it off. It sounds like you already have a masters and have taken most of the classes anyway so I don’t really think those three extra letters would do much but that’s just me. Would your courses carry over towards it? If you only had to take 5 or 6 more classes to finish off the MBA it may be worth it… but I dunno…</p>

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<p>fendergirl,</p>

<p>I doubt it. At least of the programs I’ve talked to, I’d start mostly all over again.</p>

<p>Also, as of right now, I doubt my job would pay much, a few thousand at most.</p>

<p>scualum,</p>

<p>Did you find that anyone cared that you did a part-time MBA? I’ve heard some say that the EMBA can be less liked?</p>

6

<p>I’ve never heard of anyone disliking a part time MBA. I’ve heard of them disliking MBA’s from online only schools. You might want to double check with your job. We get something like 7k tuition reiumbursement each year for graduate programs… quite a few of my coworkers are going to graduate school at night after work for various things. I work for a very big corporation though so I know our benefits are a bit different from most places.</p>

7

<p>Speaking as someone who teaches regular and executive MBA students, I think you get two things from an MBA: course content and connections.</p>

<p>It sounds like you have a lot of the content. Would the connections be helpful? If you lost your job today - or if you had to locate, do you have the right network to reach out to that will help you get a better job - not just a same level job? </p>

<p>I would recommend you consider an executive MBA. One of the foci of these programs is to have people that are in their careers trained for making that next step up in responsibility (this is content). But A LOT of the exec program is facilitating connections. This means someday when you are running the show you know someone personally in XYZ industry that you can run a question by. These will be people you come to know really well that you know deeply. </p>

<p>Look for an EMBA program that really has good connection building opportunities.</p>

<p>At 30 you are a little young, but within the next 5 years you will be in the target range. Use this time to scope out the right program for yourself. Our EMBA program has lots of people with graduate degrees (MDs, JDs, an occasional PhD) so you won’t be bored! And the content is just a stepping stone to really understanding real life management.</p>

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<p>Delicate Arch,</p>

<p>Thanks for the heads up.</p>

<p>My only concern with an EMBA, and I may simply be ignorant of the specifics (it happens) is that the cost can be high enough that the NPV is negative over the long run. I could be wrong.</p>

<p>As far as connections go, I’m fortunate that my network is pretty robust at this point thanks to being a sort of in-house consultant. I’ve had interview offers and siren calls on a regular basis. I stay pretty popular, and I constantly build my network. However, I do always want new opportunities, of course!</p>

<p>Actually, to be honest… I’m 27 going on 28. I kind of feel like I missed the regular MBA window a bit, though. Maybe it’s time to wait on the EMBA and see what that offers me around 35 or so?</p>

9

<p>no one knows if you got your MBA full time or part time unless you tell them, as it’s not a footnote on your diploma. (of course if you have an uninterrupted job history a reasonably intelligent interviewer could figure it out!). </p>

<p>I’m not a huge EMBA fan as I don’t think the program is as rigorous as a typical semester program, but again, the diploma generally doesn’t distinguish. Most EMBA programs, however require support of your employer and have varying levels of required attendance. </p>

<p>If you’re in White Plains, you have access to many high quality MBA programs in NYC & Westchester if you think that’s what you need. </p>

<p>PS - my MBA was part-time and at this point in my career no one cares!</p>

10

<p>nj2011mom,</p>

<p>To be honest, I’ll probably be back in CA in a few years, so this would probably be at Berkeley, Stanford, or worst case scenario UCLA (or none at all.)</p>

<p>It’s good to hear that the EMBA won’t really matter, since that’s my most likely bet given my career and the needs of my marriage.</p>

11

<p>I have a night MBA from a top 30 school (undergrad BBA from U of Michigan as well). Here are a few thoughts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Some programs offer a part time program that is also accelerated if you have done a considerable amount of coursework already (mine is technically an evening program accelerated MBA). The diploma looks the same, no one would know if I didn’t tell them. It was MUCH less of a disruption to my life than any other program could have been. So check that out if you have a lot of business coursework already.</p></li>
<li><p>I think it is pretty rare that the MBA makes a difference in whether I am hired or not (I am a project management consultant with my own independent practice). But as someone else commented, the coursework is dead useful sometimes. Only you are in a good position to decide whether the extra coursework you haven’t had yet is worth it.</p></li>
<li><p>If you don’t have kids yet, do it now. It is just too hard once you have kids. Either go back full time or get it done nights in the next few years. However… then you might feel like you really have to exert yourself at work to get the full benefit of having done the additional degree. That might not be so good for your family, either. Take a hard look at why you really want to do this. Is either of you likely to stay at home with the kids if you have them? What kind of hours/home life with them do you want to have?</p></li>
</ul>

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<p>I teach MBAs for a living. I can’t actually answer your particular question but it’s a good one. It very much depends on your particular industry. </p>

<p>I will clarify something however. A part-time MBA and an EMBA are not the same thing (or at least not at all the schools I’m familiar with). A part-time MBA is the same as the full-time regular MBA, but done gradually so you can usually keep working while obtaining it. The EMBA is (too) often a creatively put together, extremely condensed version of a regular MBA, typically charging very high tuition, but everyone can get into it. It’s a major money maker for schools so they abound. The running joke in our industry is that the more you pay, the less you have to do to get a piece of paper. They seem to be getting shorter and easier by the year. </p>

<p>I can also add that you sound like a fairly typical MBA student- not particularly older or more seasoned than most (maybe just a few years older than average). So to the extent that MBAs at top schools provide a reasonable ROI, likely that is true for you. Your particular career and industry may be unique (thus I can’t comment on it), but certainly your career stage doesn’t set you apart from most others.</p>

<p>Finally, as you suggested, it is very unlikely any of your prior credits would transfer over.</p>

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<p>You might be able to transfer some credits or at least have them recognized as completed courses, which would free you up for more electives. I started my MBA in another state at a top state school and 9 months later we decided to move to NJ, the 2 courses I had completed were accepted by the school I attended, plus they exempted me out of all accounting classes, as I’m a CPA.</p>

14

<p>UCLAri:</p>

<p>Just to clarify - I got a regular MBA - just more slowly - rather than an eMBA. I do know that my current employer’s HR department sees a big difference between the regular MBA and an eMBA - but does not care about part time versus full time MBA.</p>

<p>I do think that the school name and the corresponding perception of the program matters. Mine is from Santa Clara University - which is very well regarded here in Silicon Valley. Go over to the East coast and it might be a different story. </p>

<p>As far as I know, Stanford is a full time only program. UCLA and Cal I think offer part time leading to an eMBA rather than a MBA but I could be mistaken there.</p>

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<p>scualum,</p>

<p>My understanding is that UCLA’s is a full-MBA, not an eMBA, and the site seems to agree with me. But this stuff is pretty Greek to me, so I may be mistaken!</p>

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<p>Perhaps they offer both - but I know my college roommate got an eMBA from UCLA…</p>

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<p>I have an EMBA from Wharton. My company paid the full tuition, paid the full salary, and gave me two days off work each week to concentrate on the course work. And gave me early promotion during the time I was getting the degree. </p>

<p>I don’t agree that EMBA is considered less favorably, especially if it was paid for by the company. When I interviewed for the next job, they were mightily impressed that my previous company thought I was worthwhile a talent to pay through the nose like that. </p>

<p>Look, even the “real” MBA is actually a joke. Nothing you learn there can’t be learned on the job. Other than some technical econ courses, all the materials (especially marketing, leadership, negotiation, and all the soft stuff) are easily learned MUCH better on the job. It’s a glorified trade school program, and the main benefit is the brand equity (if it is from a top notch program) and the entry ticket plus the networking.</p>

<p>Let’s not confuse MBA program with real academic programs like medicine, engineering, and some highly specialized Ph.D. program (I went through this too, so I know the difference). You are not there to REALLY learn something that can’t be learned otherwise.</p>

<p>As for networking, actually EMBA provides a much better opportunity - because there are mid career people with better networking of their own, and if they are the ones like me who their companies are paying the tuition, these are potential movers and shakers. Much better networking targets. </p>

<p>In your case, if you were paying out of pocket, AND you have to get off the current career track to get the degree, I don’t think it’s worth it. I am in the tech industry, and hired/fired people for many years. I never looked at whether they have MBA degree or not.</p>

<p>Of course, if you are in consulting business, and you need to impress people with MBA from Wharton or Harvard, that’s a different story.</p>

18

<p>UCLA has a regular MBA and an executive MBA. I think most of the participants in the executive MBA program are sponsored by companies – it is pricey. Students in it also tend to have at least seven years of work experience in increasingly responsible positions. Not at all sure how competitive entrance is; I have the feeling (but could be wrong) that if the “right” company sponsors someone, that they’re rather automatically in.</p>

<p>Regular MBA students at UCLA usually have 2-3 years of work experience, sometimes more. </p>

<p>Fully employed MBA students tend to have more work experience, but probably not at a level characteristic of the executive MBA cohort.</p>

19

<p>arabrab,</p>

<p>Looking at UCLA’s site, I also see a part-time: [Fully</a> Employed MBA | UCLA Anderson School of Management](<a href=“http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x24270.xml]Fully”>http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x24270.xml)</p>

<p>Is this different from what you’re referring to?</p>

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<p>actually, at least based on my experience, it was NOT true that EMBA admission is a peace of cake if a company sponsors it. Perhaps it may be the case at a second tier EMBA program. At Wharton, when I was applying, even with the company sponsorship from Fortune 100 (at that time) tech giant, the admission scene was quite competitive. I know another person from my company who got the full sponsorship as I did, and she was not admitted. Shen went to Stern instead. (that year, from the entire company, they sponsored 4 EMBA candidates).</p>

<p>I really think OP should wait a couple of years, build his case for company sponsored EMBA and get his MBA degree this way. It’s considered far more prestigious to follow this route for an active professional, he will be surrounded with much more “productive” networking targets (if that’s what he is looking for), and NO cost on his part, and NO opportunity cost either (getting out of the well paying position). </p>

<p>Of course, these days, companies may be reluctant to pay through the nose. If I have to pay out of my pocket, and quit a good job to get an MBA, no way it’s worth it. And, I believe no top tier MBA program has night program. </p>

<p>I may be a bit too cynical, but given my belief that MBA is all about feather on the cap, appearance, and networking, NOT genuine, life shattering, enlightening educational/learning experience, getting it in anywhere other than a top tier program is not worth the money and the opportunity cost. </p>

<p>In my tech company, unless the person who has the MBA did in one of the top 10 places, the MBA degree written on the resume is not worth anything at all. Even for the top program, our thinking was “gee, this person must have been smart enough to be admitted to that program”, NOT “wow, this person must have gotten such great education and insight that will be helpful for our business”. Nobody takes the actual educational value of the MBA program seriously. It could be it’s different in other industry. At least, this is the case in elite tech companies I am familiar with both based on my own experience and my husband’s experience (he works for what is commonly known as one of the best companies to work for, and it’s a tech company).</p>