Opinions on Marital Money Conflict

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I am posting under another name so as not to put too much personally identifiable info in a thread associated with my other name.</p>

<p>DH and I are having a bit of a money battle. This is not new, but this one is particularly bad and may truly be the end of the marriage. </p>

<p>Both DH and I have worked hard for our 20+ year marriage. If you added up our total salaries over the years, they are nearly even – which is probably unusual for a marriage. I am extremely conservative financially…a very low maintenance female who spends little on clothing, hair, nails, makeup, fitness. I was never able to stay home with our kids. I guess I probably could have if we had rearranged our finances, but DH seems to like the finer things in life and it would have created too much financial stress.</p>

<p>So, we’ve done OK. Our net worth is truly a little over 1 million. But it’s not terribly liquid – we probably have 150,000 liquid, but that’s identified for current and future private school tuition obligations, plus the safety net should one of us lose our jobs. Truly, we are paying almost all tuition out of current income – this is the fund we dip into if we can’t. The remainder of savings is 410k and real estate equity. I am confident in the real estate equity being “real”, based conservatively on comparables. We have two rental properties, bought at significantly lower than market prices, and they are renting at tidy sums – they are leveraged at 50% and paying down their own debt quickly. Our house is in a great metro area where sales are not terribly off.</p>

<p>My parents have given us a boost over the years here and there. The first house down payment came from them ($5000 – small, but it got us started), some free day care came from them, and some 529 money came from them. They are wonderful people and my husband and I love them. He is closer to them than his own family. DH brought 20k in student loans to the marriage, I brought none…we shouldered this together for the 1st eight years of marriage. </p>

<p>Our current salaries are good, and our current job prospects are average. I think either one of us is at risk within 3 to 5 years. I’ve invested significant amounts of time into professional training in the last two years to try to keep myself employable. My current job is extremely stressful, and I would like to leave, but due to the current employment market – it’s just not happening. I have very little vacation, and I can feel myself sinking into despair. DH works in a much lower stress job, and has 8 weeks of vacation per year. He has used that vacation on renovating the rental properties. He has infinite amounts of physical energy and is an extraordinarily talented renovator. He should be a general contractor, but his day job pays too well and has great benefits. You would not believe the variety of things he has done to our own home and these other properties. We are also cautious to never over improve. I think he envisions general contracting and property management as his next career – which I don’t necessarily agree with, based on our obligations.</p>

<p>So, I am about to inherit a house and some money. My sister is also an equal heir with me. She is disabled and unmarried and will require help from me after my parents are gone. The house needs a lot of renovation before we can put it on the market. My parents are also involved in the estate as well, to an extent. It would be best if my husband could be the general contractor on the job. The house requires 15 to 20k of work – mostly labor – before it should be put on the market. My husband wants to do some of the work himself, sub out other work. My parents want to pay him. However, he would like to take all of the money from the project and use it for a specific $25000 luxury item for himself. When we argue about this, he just rationalizes.</p>

<p>I am having a major issue with this. Up until now, I feel this has been a partnership – even though I have felt it’s been a little lopsided toward him. I think he feels like he has created the real estate equity on our balance sheet, and that he is entitled. I feel that my financial contribution to the marriage and personal sacrifices have enabled him to create this equity. </p>

<p>I had intended to use the inherited money (probably 100k) for our mutual benefit. Now I am not feeling so generous. This is a bad way to feel. I feel that this is no longer a partnership, and may be every man for himself.</p>

<p>Thoughts? Help with conflict resolution? Should I just shut up an let him buy non-mutually beneficial thing?</p>

2

<p>If you were happy about your job and had no problem in staying with it for next 10 or 20 years, how would you feel about your husband spending 25K on something he really wants? My question here is if it´s him spending the money or you being unhapppy about your job situation. If it´s about your job, then your husband has an obligation (as an equal, caring partner) to work out a long term plan on how you could afford to work at a less stressful job. </p>

<p>If you are not happy about the fact that he is spending all the money he will be making from the project on himself, I could also sympathize. After all, the time he is spending on the project, it´s time he is not helping out around the house. If he wants to blow the money on something frivilous on himself, then he should give half of it to you. I am the one who gets a fair size bonus every year. I am able to get it because of my H´s help around the house. When we were younger (with less obligations), we used to each buy one extravagant thing (within a certain budget) whenever I received a bonus. Now, if I know my H has always wanted something special he wanted in his life and we couldn´t afford to spend equally, I would let him do it because we only live once.</p>

<p>Money is always a tough issue to resolve, especially in a marriage. After so many years of marriage, I would encourage you not to let this get in your way. If your H really wants to spend that 25k without your agreement, I would take 25K from your 100K inheritance and put it aside for yourself, and put the remainder into a joint account. As you have posted, even though your job has been more stressful, your H has always been an equal partner, not a lazy bum. One day when your sister may need some assistance, your H maybe very generous, unless you know otherwise.</p>

<p>My dad has always said, “If you could solve a problem with money, then it´s not a big problem.”</p>

3

<p>I’m not sure I’m following the specifics but it sounds as though YOU are inheriting money and he wants to spend a considerable portion of it on something for himself alone. </p>

<p>Or he is working on renovating the house and wants to spend all of that income on himself.</p>

<p>If it’s his income, you still have a problem. A husband should not spend that kind of money without his wife’s approval. And vice versa. It sounds like he doesn’t care about your opinion on the matter.</p>

<p>If it’s your inheritance, keep it separate. (And the law usually treats separate inheritances as separate property within a marriage. Meaning that if you got divorced, it’s not treated as community property for which he could claim half). </p>

<p>If your husband knows how much you dislike your job, how stressful it is, he should support you in a plan to get out of it somehow. Could you afford to work part-time with the inheritance? Or transition to a different field? Or take some unpaid vacation time, which it sounds like you really need?</p>

<p>The money isn’t really the problem here. It’s that your husband isn’t listening to you and respecting your wishes.</p>

4

<p>If I am reading this right, you and your husband will get about $100,000 after the sale of the house. Your sister will realize the same. The house needs work however to realize that amount in the sale. Your husband is willing to take on the job of doing that work (including dealing with subcontrators, etc.) at no pay. But at the end he wants to take 1/4 of your profits, leaving your sister’s profits intact. Is this correct?</p>

<p>If so, I think the solution may be what Old fort suggests. You take 50K put into a fund for the two of you, he takes 25K for what he wants, and you take 25K for what you want. Now what you want may be security of knowing there is 25K stashed somewhere for a real emergency, or maybe you want to use it find a way to a less stressful job, or what ever, but I think you should have 25K that is yours to control with no questions asked. Look at this way, you provide the property, he provides the labor, the partnership gets half the profit for the good of the business and each of the partners gets a quarter of the profit for their own purposes.</p>

5

<p>Ah, inheritances and family money gifts. I think they bring out the worst in everyone. So many people wish they would have such “good fortune”, but it can cause real issues!</p>

<p>I wonder if your H’s purchase desire is also a bit of a mid-life crises (if you are on this board you might be a bit on the far side of mid-life, but you know what I mean).</p>

<p>I actually agree with oldfort on this one (and I am a woman, by the way, if it makes any difference). Let him splurge. It doesn’t sound like either of you do that very often. I think he just wants to be a grasshopper instead of an ant for once, you know? But take your own 25K and do something that is really good for you. Remodel something YOU want remodeled, take a trip with one or more of your kids that you REALLY want to take (a once in a lifetime type thing), or hire more help around the house for chores you hate to do :slight_smile: </p>

<p>You would still be an ant with 75K of the total money pool.</p>

<p>Part of this would be accepting that you are the one who is good and responsible with money, and maybe he isn’t. He has other good qualities (sounds like he is super handy, my guess is that he has saved you a bundle over the years compared to expenses that I have paid to workers at my house!). Partnership doesn’t mean you have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses.</p>

6

<p>Leaving aside the issue of what should happen with the money that your husband earns (from your parents) for the time he puts in on the house while he’s on vacation, I think that, if I were you, I would put aside the inheritance into an account earmarked for the care of my sister. </p>

<p>I think that going forward, there may be tensions and disagreements about how to deploy resources, particularly if her care ever begins to eat into funds that your husband intended to spend on “finer things.”</p>

<p>About the luxury item…I would be hurt if my husband earned 25K during his copious vacation from his low-stress job, while I continued to slave away in the miserable salt mines. I would hope his inclination would be to use that money to do something to make MY life less stressful, not to make his even better. It makes him seem selfish.</p>

7

<p>But, lololu, it’s her inheritance. If his $25,000 for work is benefitting both heirs, her sister and herself, then the sister should pay half of the value of the husband’s work. So that each sister would net $87,500. </p>

<p>But the problem isn’t the mathematics of the situation. If these people earned millions per year, then a $25,000 fun, luxury wouldn’t be an issue. The problem is that it is a significant chunk of their assets and she doesn’t approve, in fact it sounds as if the resentment is deep and bitter due to the fact that she doesn’t like her job.</p>

<p>It sounds harsh, but if the marriage could possible be headed for divorce, the OP should keep the inherited money in a separate account in her name only. An emergency fund just in case.</p>

8

<p>is it really just about your H wanting to buy an expensive something for himself? IMO, it seems as if there are more broad-based marital issues involved. Is your H just going to go ahead and buy said something even if you disagree? Are the 2 of you headed down separate paths? </p>

<p>Two years ago my H bought a sailboat – a rarely-seen-on-the-market one that he had long admired. I’m not crazy about it, and it was pretty expensive. BUT, we did talk about it, and if I had put my foot down, he wouldn’t have gone ahead. Ultimately it was a joint decision, and me saying “No” would have been selfish. (Note: I do realize our situation may not be exactly like yours in terms of finances/who earned how much money/whose inheritance it is, etc.)</p>

<p>Again, just my opinion, but it seems as if there are underlying issues. Best wishes for sorting out everything.</p>

9

<p>Ok, this luxury item - how is it not something for both of you? A Rolex? A car? A boat? Does it require further money for upkeep/storage as a boat would? </p>

<p>That aside, I think if the money for that item comes from extra work HE is putting in, maybe you could bend on his request, but then I would sit down and talk about where the other 100K is going. Do you have to save some in case your sis needs more, or will her share and whatever you get from your parents when they are gone cover her expenses? Could it be used to cover a period of time when you quit your stressful job and look for something else - or take a job that pays less? </p>

<p>I can say from experience that 100K might look like a huge windfall when it comes in the door, but it can fly off in a heck of a hurry and leave you wondering where it went, so if you want to make it mean something to your quality of life, then you need to figure that out ahead of time. I sense a tad of resentment that you have the more stressful situation and credit his desire to have the “finer things” and lots of vacation time. If that’s true, then you need to speak up for YOU and put yourself into a better position, whether or not H ends up getting his bling.</p>

10

<p>He is putting the work but while married. As Oldfort said, he is spending time that would be used helping around the house. In other words, $25K is earned together not by himself. He could spend half of it as his own at most imo.</p>

11

<p>It sounds to me like your husband REALLY wants this item, enough to continue stubbornly to insist on it even though you believe it’s an unwise purchase. It is, arguably, “his” money since he is making it via his renovation efforts. If I were you I’d let him get whatever it is and then reserve for my own use, out of the cash inheritance, an equal sum for myself (or maybe a lot more, since after all, it is your inheritance, not your and your H’s). Think of the cash inheritance as “found money” that allows the two of you to resolve this problem without scanting on anything else.</p>

<p>Your unhappiness in your current job is really a separate issue, though I suspect it’s contributing to your impatience with your H. But I don’t think this argument is worth ending a long marriage over.</p>

<p>My H and I, who both work fulltime, maintain domestic tranquillity by keeping separate checking accounts. He is a financially responsible person but spends money on stuff I would never think of buying. But I figure that as long as our overall savings for retirement/college are on track we don’t always need to be on the same page about every purchase. You can have a partnership without agreeing on all matters.</p>

12

<p>I think it would help to have a mediator. If the item was much less expensive, I wouldn’t have a problem and I don’t think you would either- however- it seems kinda a f-u purchase given your opposite spending styles.</p>

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<p>This is a critical issue that could reach a crisis point shortly- the extravagant purchase will perhaps bring it to a head by emphasizing the different approaches.</p>

<p>It’s one thing to spend a couple hundred dollars on a feel good purchase if you can afford it- but when your partner is stressed, IMO you do what you can to help that.
A chunk of money like that could pay for a long vacation, training for a new career, or marriage counseling…
Especially when you feel that you have sublimated your own best interests in order to keep family afloat, there is a lot going on, not too far below the surface.</p>

<p>I recently inherited some money as well- but I put my daughters as the primary heirs and it is in my name- I figured if I am with my H, then he will benefit, but if not, then it is already in a separate acct.</p>

<p>BTW could I possibly barter more advice for work on my house? My H is taking all summer just to sand it to get ready for painting.</p>

13

<p>It is her property, not her money. He is adding value to the property by his labor. So he has an investment here. So there are really two options. The two sisters can pay him up front to do the work (about 25K) and take all the profits and split it between them, or they can take him on a cost sharing partner and predetermine what his share will be by percentage. Either way it sounds like his share will come to about 25K. Now the question becomes what does this couple do with money. Do they share it equally or do they keep separate accounts? That is a bigger issue. If she decides to go the separate accounts route and keep all the inheritance money in her own account for her own purposes, then she has to pay him in some way for his labor that added to the value of her account. That comes to about 25K. Is this his money and he can do what he wants with it. </p>

<p>I find the distinction between money you earn and money you are given odd. People here seem to be saying that the money she inherits is hers to do what she wants with, but the money he earns is joint and has to go into the pot. So she comes out with $100K, he works like a dog and gets nothing? Remember, if he doesn’t do the work, she doesn’t get $100K, she gets about 75K.</p>

14

<p>The law in some states (I’ve looked into CA law on this) treats inheritances as separate property. Income, though, is treated as community property. Community is owned by both husband and wife and is usually split down the middle. However, if inherited money is commingled, so that it’s hard to separate out who owns what after years, then it is treated as community property.</p>

<p>When two people have distinctly different ideas on how money should be spent it’s a good idea for them not to commingle the property, especially if H might run up debts, the saver spouse should protect her own assets from his debt collectors. </p>

<p>Whether $25,000 of this couples money should be spent on a toy for H (I think we can assume it’s a boat or a toy of some sort), can they afford it, as Suze Orman would say?</p>

<p>She always says unless you are on goal for plenty of retirement money and have 6 months cash in an emergency fund, you don’t go spending this kind of money on something frivolous. </p>

<p>If it’s a car he needs for transportation, that’s not frivolous. Something that will hold its value if it needs to be sold is not frivolous (gold coins, for example). Something that would add value to the house, a bathroom addition or a kitchen remodel, is not frivolous. Boats, Rolex’s, snowmobiles, toyhaulers, etc. I would be as angry as the OP.</p>

15

<p>OP, have you and your husband sat down with your numbers and either a financial planner or some of those online calculators to see whether your current assets are, in fact, sufficient to keep you on track for retirement? A million sounds like a lot, but some of the calculators I’ve looked at seem to think that’s not going to be sufficient for retirement expenses for a lot of families.</p>

<p>Does your husband know you are miserable in your job?</p>

<p>Did I read correctly that your parents are the ones paying him the $25K for the renovation job? Do they know what he intends to do with that money? I will say that my husband and I have a similar relationship with my family to the one you describe with yours–we are much closer with my family than with his, and my family has helped us out financially over the years and provided contributions for the benefit of their grandchildren, on the understanding that we are all working together here. They’ve even hired my husband for various things early on in our marriage, with the idea that money they could put in “our” pockets that way would be good for me, too. They’d be dismayed if he did what your husband is proposing to do.</p>

16

<p>“When we argue about this, he just rationalizes.”
pretty dismissive of his position. what is it exactly? why should he do any of this work on your and sister’s separate inheritance? got it that your parents want him to do the work; do they also mention him in their estate plan? </p>

<p>further down the downside, who would you rather give 25 grand to - your h or attorney? 25 or even a hundred grand will look like chump change in divorce court. marriage counseling / mediation is, more often than not, the first step so don’t - he sounds like a basically good guy. spend an equal amount on yourself, use the rest to educate your kids.</p>

17

<p>If he has worked hard for 20+ years and not spent wildly over those years, you have a $1 million nest egg, I think he deserves to get himself a $25,000 gift no matter what it may be or what you think of it. Has nothing to do with this windfall you are getting. If you don’t enjoy life and money a bit while you can, what’s the point? To you what might be a “toy” might be something he has dreamed of for many years.(toy is a very negative term BTW). That you have no such needs is not his problem.</p>

18

<p>But it sounds as if they don’t really have a million-dollar nest egg–and certainly not that kind of mad money. I assume from the OP’s description of most of that million as illiquid, that they’re living in a large chunk of that theoretical million.</p>

19

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<p>The original plan was for the inheritance/proceeds of the house sale to be added to their joint assets; it seems fair for the husband to put a little sweat equity in to the effort. The parents intent to pay him, rather than to have him do the work for free (as sweat equity) may be, based on my own parents’ strategies, a method to transfer additional assets from their names to the OP’s family’s names without restrictions of gift tax, etc. Presumably they imagined it would benefit their daughter and their grandchildren as well.</p>

<p>The parents have already contributed to 529s for the kids, helped with down payment, and, by paying the OPs college expenses outright, put her in a position to help her husband pay off the educational debt he brought into the marriage.</p>

<p>Why should he do any of this work? Because he’s part of the family.</p>

20

<p>$1M nest egg will ensure $50K annual income. H plans to spend half of it for pleasure.</p>