<p>Hi, my dear one had an unfortunate accident with my (new but not fancy) car. It was not recklessness, she was in a tight, tight urban parking lot and misjudged, scraping my car against the wall of a building. So, no other vehicles involved, but the damage to my car is not pretty. Got a quote on getting it repaired. Ouch. </p>
<p>She’s begun taking on tasks around the house, which I told her will go towards her debt, in place of cash (I want her to save her funds for college). She does have a part-time job. </p>
<p>She’s painting a bathroom at the moment, a tedious job with lots of trim work, shelves, etc. She’s also taking on extra cleaning and gardening chores.</p>
<p>The chores I can put a price on. My question is–what would having a bathroom painted set me back if I was paying a professional? She’s doing a good job.</p>
<p>I know this doesn’t answer your question but…</p>
<p>If this were my kid, she would not be paying me back. It was not reckless as you say. She made a mistake and misjudged. I realize the mistake has financial consequences (though you must have insurance and so you’re talking of the deductible, yes?), but I allow my kids to make mistakes if they seem to act responsibly and take the mistake seriously. </p>
<p>But if you want her to “pay” you back with chores, do the chores really have to numerically amount to what those chores are worth in dollars? Just set up some consequences for her to help out if you want her to repay in some fashion. The main thing is she takes responsibility for her actions. It may be a form of repayment or simply the right attitude about the incident.</p>
<p>Well, we are considering not claiming it on insurance. </p>
<p>Same kid had a moving violation about nine months ago, which caused damage. It was not a reckless situation, exactly, more of a brand-new-driver mess up. She was not speeding, she signaled to change lanes but didn’t see a car in blind spot. She was clearly at fault and was cited.</p>
<p>So, that time, we didn’t ‘charge’ her anything; she lost unaccompanied driving privileges for 6 months. Our rates went up, but not horribly. Now having another claim on the same car is going to add quite a bit to our annual rates. Our deductible is only $100, but the rate may go up by $300/year, possibly more. So I am toying with paying for the repair out of our emergency fund to keep the insurance at a reasonable rate.</p>
<p>I guess I’m feeling like she’s a big kid, she needs to take responsibility. Plus, she feels badly and wants to contribute. I want to credit her with what it would cost me to hire someone to do this.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the parent expecting the child to pay for the non-reckless act. The parent is simply allowing the child to shoulder the exact same consequences that apply in real life to everyone else. I mean, someone has to pay. Certainly I know when I rent a car that I will be paying for any damage, no matter whose fault it is. </p>
<p>I also don’t think the parent is wrong to consider what the job would cost if she hired someone to do it. Again – simply a direct, real life lesson. </p>
<p>I’m not saying that all parents have to take that approach. Just that I think it’s reasonable and fair. </p>
<p>To the OP: if you feel your daughter is working efficiently, you might consider an hourly rate for the paint job. You can probably get a sense of what a typical hourly rate is in your area.</p>
<p>I am assuming there is a deductable, and if that is the case than I think you are being very reasonable. Even if it was an accident, someone has to pay the deductable. I would probably be pretty generous with her “pay rate” for jobs around the house. Painting is so dependent on size that it is hard to come up with a price without knowing the specifics. If she is indeed sanding woodwork, and painting trim, shelves, and walls, with a minimum of 2 coats, I would think you are talking at least 10 hours, and probably more. I can’t imagine you could get it done for less than $300, and that is for a smaller bathroom. I think it also depends where you are located.</p>
<p>I think it makes sense for the person who did the deed to pay for the damage and there’s nothing like a little pocketbook ache (or sore muscles) to serve as a reminder to be a bit more careful.</p>
<p>I was going to suggest somewhere around $15 to $25 per hour for her work depending on where you slide the bar - towards it being a lesson learned or towards it being actually paying for the full damage cost (through offset work). Since she’s a slow amateur I’d say closer to $15 than $25 with $20 being a good compromise somewhat in her favor. </p>
<p>Just curious - is she fine with doing this offset work? Is she happy about it and being able to repay the damage in this way? If so then it sounds like a win/win for both of you and can hopefully ‘offset’ the angst form the accident.</p>
<p>thanks, everyone.
Note–I’m not being mean or upset with her; I told her I understood it was a misjudgement, and that I am not mad at her. I’m still letting her drive it.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I agree with Calmom–someone does have to pay. (plus it’s the only new car I’ve ever had!)</p>
<p>I do realize that this is not the worst problem in the world. Thank the lord she wasn’t hurt, just the car.</p>
<p>GladGrad Dad, she is doing the work cheerfully and without complaint. It was her idea to do the bathroom painting, and she took complete initiative. I want to ‘credit’ her in an appropriate way.</p>
<p>I paid a painter $400 to do my upstairs hall (which is small and mostly doors) and the wall along the stairs. He also got to do a window. I’d guess a bathroom is a similar amount of work. It depends on how much scraping and patching you have to do first.</p>
<p>I think asking for repayment is fine, BTW. She should be making reparations of some sort.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t total it up in hours and dollars. Just make her do enough so she feels a pinch in that her time has been taken and you have received some value. Part of the question is whether you can afford the car repair. If so, then you just need to have her do enough work (hours helping you in any way) that she understands that her actions have consequences. My dad pays my 22 year old $20/hr (US $) to do labor outside such as digging, hauling rock whatever and also to paint inside rooms. He knows it is a high pay rate, but that it is still cheaper than paying a painter. Most painters you hire are union and expect big $. We have found no contractor wants to come out for small jobs and they all want 400-500/day of labor, so my son is a bargain.</p>
<p>Restricting use of the car is a reasonable punishment in addition. Sounds like she needs instruction in use of mirrors and checking for blind spots since both accidents involved things she didn’t see or misjudged.</p>
<p>OP - you have a good kid then. Most new drivers have accidents first year when they start to drive by themselves. </p>
<p>D1 had 2 tickets and 1 accident the first year she started to drive. The accident and 1 ticket weren’t really her fault, but the speeding ticket was, so she was responsible in getting a lawyer (she managed to get a lawyer for free) and paying for the ticket. </p>
<p>D2 caused 10K damage to her sister’s car while she was learning to drive in a parking lot. She then caused quite a bit of damage to H’s car when H allowed her drive and there was black ice. </p>
<p>Should we have made D2 to pay for the deductibles and increase in insurance? She didn’t do anything wrong, she was learning how to drive, but just was not very good at it. In my opinion, it is no different than OP’s D. OP’s D didn’t do anything wrong, she was learning how to drive by herself. </p>
<p>There is a price to pay whenever we want to teach our kids something new. According to OP, she wasn’t being careless, most likely she was just inexperienced. As an adult, maybe OP should have made the judgement call not to allow D to drive by herself until she was more experienced. Maybe OP should have taken time out to drive with his D more. Maybe OP should be the one to paint the bathroom to pay the family back. :)</p>
<p>These statements seem to imply that crashing cars is somehow acceptable or expected, even though crashing cars is dangerous (or at least expensive) both the driver and to others. But it is not surprising when, in the US, people do not seem to take driving cars as seriously as they should for safety reasons.</p>
<p>Almost all car crashes have something to do with a driver error that could have been prevented by better judgement, paying better attention, handling the car more skilfully, and/or leaving a greater margin of safety when driving.</p>
<p>^^^I don’t know how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote. Statistically, first year driver tend to have more accidents, and I would have to think it is due to inexperience of new drivers. I do not know think anyone thinks it is acceptable, but that’s what happens. It is the reason in some states, like NJ, students need to drive with a licensed passenger between age 16-17 before he/she could get a permanent license at age 17.</p>
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I also do not understand this statement, compare to what country and how are Americans not taking driving cars as seriously as they should? In many other countries, people could get a drivers license by just showing up at their DMV and pay required fees. Yes, that’s how D2 has her license without even taking a test. </p>
<p>D1 had those 3 incidents the first year she got her license, and since then she hasn’t even gotten a ticket. Reason? Probably due to more driving experience.</p>
<p>Our family actually keeps a ledger for those sorts of expenses and mini-loans that S1 and S2 incur, I don’t see a thing wrong with it. As someone said, accident or not, there’s a bill that needs to be paid, and there’s no reason it can’t be the student. I think, honestly, it makes them feel more independant and adult. </p>
<p>We typically make a list of things we pay for them to do, and an hourly rate. If they don’t keep track of their hours (there’s a spot in the ledger for that) I don’t “pay” them. If it’s a complicated or time-consuming job (staining the deck, washing the house) sometimes we just negotiate a flat fee upfront to save us all the hassle. Again, I think it’s learning a bunch of useful skills in a friendly way. Punitively saying “you gotta pay this you dumb kid” is very different than saying “this is your debt to pay, here’s how we can do this together”</p>
<p>Get an estimate. Since you can’t get an estimate for the bathroom as it is done, get a similar estimate from professionals. If you can afford it, give her the benefit of the doubt and pay her what it would have cost you if you had it done by the professional. </p>
<p>As a rule around here where my kids will do work for money, I give half what it would cost me. If I am tight on money and the job HAS to be done, my wonderful kids have always done it for free. If it’s for something like this, and I can afford it, I’ll therefore be generous. </p>
<p>I don’t see a thing wrong with a kid working off an accident to the parents’ car.</p>
<p>I agree with njfootballmom here. If you needed the money, you’d need the money. It seems, however, that this is more about actions having consequences. If that’s the case, I wouldn’t get hung up on the monetary value of her service. If, on the other hand, you want to make it appear to your daughter that it’s about the value of her time and the cost of the damage, you could consider making up the numbers so that you’re square after the bathroom is painted. </p>
<p>A bathroom is a short day’s work for a painter. I think $400 may be high if it doesn’t include materials, but if there’s a lot of trim work in your bathroom, then that figure may not be too far off.</p>
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<p>Painters have a union? I thought professional painters are expensive because they’re licensed and insured. Well, that and, unlike one’s 18-year-old daughter, they’re trying to earn a living. It’s expensive to live.</p>
<p>Whatever the reason, though, it’s appropriate for a professional painter to have a higher hourly rate than one’s teenage daughter. It’s also appropriate to expect a professional painter to work faster than one’s teenage daughter can.</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t actually do this. It strikes me as disrespectful of the professionals’ time to get an estimate when you have no intention of having the work done. They are, after all, trying to make a living.</p>