Our responsibility as parents

Parent Cafe
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<p>Wrong again. Just ask around. Doctors/engineers/lawyers by and large do not feel that way. Now you may feel that they could be happier, but you are projecting. </p>

<p>Tell me, why do you think a doctor who is saving lives would be unhappy? A engineer who is building technology that changes lives? A lawyer who is upholding the law - the backbone of any civil society? These jobs have tremendous social impacts (which is why they pay a lot too). Just because they pay a lot doesn’t mean the people doing such jobs must be miserable.</p>

<p>Don’t subscribe to that myth.</p>

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<p>Well, following hearts hasn’t done very hot for a long time economically, even before the slump.</p>

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<p>Interestingly, very few universities seem to have useful career survey information that shows how their graduates of various majors are doing.</p>

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<p>“Now, most in this group are unhappy about their earnings”
Proof?? Again, if you use the words “many” and “maybe”
instead “most” and “are”, you still can make your point, and wont have a bunch of people jumping all over you, as you have no proof that MOST Dr’s lawyers and engineers ARE unhappy, do you?</p>

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<p>HR departments do have a list for fresh graduates. I know this first hand at multiple places.</p>

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<p>Look, American engineers have forever been complaining about outsourcing and H1Bs depressing wages. Open the newspaper and you will find another article on that. Similarly, doctors have been complaining about HMOs depressing reimbursements for a long time now. It’s old news. I must admit the lawyer situation is just anecdotal and first hand. But while I know many lawyers, I have yet to find one who doesn’t complain about hours vs. bill rates.</p>

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<p>I don’t think the point is that doctors, lawyers, and engineers are inherently unhappy. I think it’s that doctors, lawyers, and engineers who are FORCED into that career field because of a fear of uncertain employment prospects will be unhappy. If I want to be an actor, but I’m forced by my parents to be a doctor because they’re afraid I’ll end up being a waitress, then I will be miserable. Financially well off, but miserable. Making a difference, but miserable. I think it’s also better for the future patients to have a doctor who wants to be a doctor, not one who became one out of fear of unemployment.</p>

<p>If I wanted to be an actor, which is highly unlikely, I would still major in Theatre Arts, but I would minor or double major in something related to theatre. I could be a theatre teacher or a director at a children’s camp. Will I get paid as well as a doctor? No. Will I make enough money to live? Yes. Will I be happy? Yes. I think that’s what matters.</p>

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<p>"Of course when I am talking to someone my kid’s age I am going to be much more gentle, MPM. When talking to adults I tend to be much more direct.
" If someone agrees with the content, I don’t see why they should get upset over the form "</p>

<p>Well IP, few here have an interest in spending the time trying to interpret or translate what you post into an understandable “form”, in order to figure out what you are really trying to say. So If you cant be bothered to take the time, as others do, and make the attempt to be understood on this forum, then your posts will do you no good. You might as well post on the moon, where no one will read you, if you dont care about how you write them. We have standards here too, that wont be lowered because someone doesn’t want to try to meet them.</p>

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<p>Well, given that waiting tables (and not being director of theaters at children’s camps - which have very little demand) will end up being the career of choice for many graduates who followed their heart, I fail to see how being a doctor could have been worse. You are anyway not going to work in the area of your choice.</p>

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<p>If my posts are not clear, call me out! If they are too direct, I will for sure tone down for friends. But people who routinely bash the Asian parenting style? I think they deserve some direct feedback. For their own good.</p>

<p>How about this? The Asian parenting bashing stops, and I become all cuddly bear like?</p>

<p>Tell me, why are so many here OK with Asian parenting bashing? It is in super bad taste, but no one ever gets called out for that. What kind of a standard is that?</p>

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<p>Perhaps the only job more thankless than a lawyer’s is a doctor’s!</p>

<p>Spending long hours with cranky people, trying to remedy their problems with no reciprocity besides the money. Doesn’t sound particularly satisfying to me.</p>

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<p>@ post 116-new graduate lawyers can’t get jobs right now, most of them are taking the few positions for paralegals. Too many, not enough money for frivolous legal actions.
Not enough doctors, and many working long hours with less pay. Very few make great pay, those are the docs high up in state research/university positions. Here it is the surgeons at University of MD Medical Center. Many would tell you that they would not encourage their children to go into medicine (unless it was for humanitarian reasons).
Most engineers I know have jobs, but have changed jobs, and are not making what they expected to be making at 45 yrs old. Many are with govt and doing OK. A number of private frims/ govt contractors have closed down in past few years.</p>

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<p>IndianParent, I fail to understand why in your eyes following one’s passion results in waiting tables. You say it as if it is a fact. You do realize there are more passions than those related to STEM majors, right? You also realize there are more successful careers than those related to STEM majors, right? Many people’s passions are, in fact, realistic. Just because their heart and their head are both in it and they didn’t have to be pushed to succeed in it doesn’t mean they’ll ultimately fail. </p>

<p>I disagree that being a doctor is always better than being a waitress. Financially, it is better, assuming there isn’t an abundance of student loans, but if a person doesn’t want to be a doctor, why would they want to go to med school and dedicate their entire lives to medicine? That seems miserable to me. Also, waitressing is usually a transition period. Even a med student without good connections or who moved into a new area can wait tables until he is hired as a doctor. Med school, law school, engineering, etc do not guarantee success.</p>

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<p>“Tell me, why are so many here OK with Asian parenting bashing?”</p>

<p>perhaps it is that many non asian parents dont appreciate Asian parents boasting that their way of raising kids IS better than other methods, if the goal is acceptance at the most elite universities. The “hey it worked for the Tiger mom, therefore its the best way to go” type of boasting that we hear from some Asian parents, is considered naive to many parents here, [especially given that her kid was a legacy AND was the child of a professor at Yale, both hooks, especially the later]. WE have seen so many posts by angry asian kids who were NOT accepted at top colleges despite the hours of practice and years of sacrifice they and their parents have made. There are so many factors used to determine which student will be accepted and which will not at most US colleges, many of which are totally out of the hands of applicants and their parents, there IS no one best way to raise a child , if the goal is to get them into the best US college. But that is not the message that some Asian parents , whose kids havent even applied to college yet, want to hear.</p>

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<p>^^
She also was accepted at Harvard - was she a legacy there also?</p>

<p>There are lots of angry posters, not just Asians.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone is bashing Asian parenting. But it is in poor taste to emigrate to another country, take advantage of all the opportunities and open society values of your new home, and then complain that there are too many non-deserving kids lowering the standards at our universities and that if these undeserving, non-STEM majoring kids were living somewhere else the educational system would be much stronger here.</p>

<p>It is indeed confusing to emigrate as an adult and to learn that the rules of the road are different than they were at home. My parents had to learn it when they got here-- and if you are raised in a society where the entire K-12 education is geared towards weeding out and tracking the non-intellectuals into vocational programs, it takes a little while to figure out that things are different here.</p>

<p>BUT IP- you are too facile with your cries of racial bias, too quick to tell us all that kids who study at Indian U’s are smarter and harder working, and much too vested in insisting that kids who major in Humanities will be drowning in debt and pushing a broom for the next 20 years.</p>

<p>All my college graduated nieces and nephews are working professionals, and all have degrees in subjects like English Literature, History, and Sociology. They work in interesting jobs with highly educated colleagues and are living independently, paying their loans back on schedule, and are pretty happy with their careers thus far. The oldest is 28, the youngest graduated in June of 2010 and has already been promoted in her job.</p>

<p>Yes, it’s tough to find a job for new grads. I would never tell a kid who wants to study English Lit that she should become a civil engineer instead. Especially if the degree in English Lit led to a terrific job with a major television network which has fantastic long term opportunities. And a job she loves in the short term- and pays well. </p>

<p>You have a very narrow and not terribly accurate view of what new grads do with their careers. The media likes to report doom and gloom; nobody is going to open a newspaper which has as its lead story, "Jane Smith found a great job as a policy analyst at a think tank and is paying back her loans from Wellesley just as she had planned. And Bruce Williams is an entry level media buyer for a major ad agency and says “I love coming to work every day with smart and well educated colleagues. And my degree in Spanish literature helped me land the job since our clients advertise heavily in Spanish language publications!”</p>

<p>Nobody reports on these kids. We all love to read about the kid who is 100K in debt with a degree in anthropology who is trying to pay it off with a 9$/hour job.</p>

<p>You may find your posts getting less hostile responses if you would be more nuanced in your criticisms of the American educational system. Which for sure is not perfect- but my cousins who stayed back in the “old country” would give up a kidney to be able to study in an American university. Where they live a kid with learning disabilities is taught to drive a bus- kids who are moderately hyperactive end up as sanitation workers. They see the American branch of the family and watch our kids with the same learning challenges get a university education and enter professional and corporate careers- and they weep for the loss of opportunity for their own bright but not always 100% perfect children.</p>

<p>We love second acts in America.</p>

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<p>A applicant, who is the child of an Ivy league professor, let alone one teaching at HYP , is far rarer and more of a hook than ANY non DA legacy tip. the legacy aspect was minor compared to that fact that her mom was a prof.
And I’m sure she is also very smart. but she would have had a greater chance getting into HYP than any applicant who did not have a parent teaching at HYP, all other factors being equal.</p>

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<p>Now try waiting tables or working in retail.</p>

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<p>“I don’t think anyone is bashing Asian parenting. But it is in poor taste to emigrate to another country, take advantage of all the opportunities and open society values of your new home, and then complain that there are too many non-deserving kids lowering the standards at our universities and that if these undeserving, non-STEM majoring kids were living somewhere else the educational system would be much stronger here.” </p>

<p>well said, [as always] blossom!
So IP, are you listening?</p>

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<p>blossom, LOL, this is so similar to what I have been told so many times before - first generation immigrants are really second class citizens, and shouldn’t dare to openly criticize anything American. Instead, they should focus on assimilating and thanking their stars that they could come to the USA. </p>

<p>My data stands. If you think your anecdotes somehow counter the media report, write to them. Challenge it. Force a withdrawal. In the mean time, stating that because your nieces did fine the situation on average much be peachy is just factually incorrect.</p>