<p>Even if jobs didn’t require people to have a degree, what would stop people from hiring based on having one? Right now, people hire based on degree to save time because they can look through less applicants that way.</p>
<p>Notrichenough, that’s interesting. The dep’t of education publishes an average salary for teachers. In all of the state of MA there is not an $84K average in the report. [Teacher</a> Salaries Report (DISTRICT) - Massachusetts Directory Profiles](<a href=“404 - Page Not Found”>404 - Page Not Found) This is for 2009/10 vs. the 2010 you reference but it’s hard to believe the total avg can climb that much in one year to make up for the avgs in the $60K range.</p>
<p>Erin’s Dad, that’s interesting, because I count 4 systems that round to $84K in that report.</p>
<p>Three cheers to tunnel vision and preconceived arguments.</p>
<p>“There are so many different degree’s that really don’t relate to a job in any way shape or form.” - mthames</p>
<p>That is precisely the point that Murray makes.</p>
<p>Many employers don’t really care what you learned while attaining your B.A, but they are glad to know that you were able to make it to class everyday for four years and you can communicate on paper. They will teach you what you need to know for the job. They figure you did okay on the SAT and the Admissions Committee for your job did all the heavy lifting.</p>
<p>@glido,</p>
<p>We all know the dirty little truth that a BA can be attained without making it to class everyday for four years and without being able to communicate on paper…</p>
<p>I think his point is that requiring a BA is more a form of socioeconomic screening than aptitude screening and that the assumptions about intelligence that go hand in hand with a degree are no longer meaningful by the sheer ubiquity of BAs. Specific aptitude screening makes sense.</p>
<p>I don’t think a BA needs to be a requirement for a job. What should be the requirement are the skills we feel one should have after attaining the degree–or as an alternative through life experience and innate intelligence or talent.</p>
<p>So let the screening be a writing sample based on reading and interpreting a passage. Or coming up with a plan to solve a complex problem.</p>
<p>I’m sure that this would disqualify some BA candidates and allow in those who have not attained the degree, but have the necessary skills to succeed.</p>
<p>If a BA didn’t contribute to job skills, why do employers keep on using them as a requirements for a job? Don’t employers want to hire the best candidates?</p>
<p>The more I think about this, the more ridiculous Murray seems to me. As someone bought it up before, as a libertarian, shouldn’t Murray just be ok with how the marketplace for workers is functioning right now and NOT ask the courts to get involved? </p>
<p>Like I said in my previous post, the requirement is there for the benefit of employers. Let’s use this theoretical example: If college graduates and non-college graduates make up 50% of applicants but 90% of the potential hires would be college graduates and only 10% of the potential hires are not, then employers can simply avoid looking at 50% of the applicants, while missing out on a tenth of their hires. This system works perfectly fine. What we need now is some way to make college degrees more affordable, that’s all.</p>
<p>Notrich, my apologies. I should not have looked at it on the microlaptop. I missed the five districts out of 329 which are $84K or higher.</p>
<p>Oh god their are some useless degree like commucations that contrib jack **** to job skills.</p>
<p>
Amen, brother.</p>
<p>I don’t get why a court feels the need to intrude even more on corporations. They are basically saying, we should make it illegal to only employ people who are trained in the profession we want them to do. I understand the whole economic situation and how some people can’t afford them, but that doesn’t mean that a less qualified person should be put on the same level as someone who isn’t as qualified. This sounds like another hand out to me.</p>
<p>Tiako- you might benefit from a class or two in communications given your spelling and grammar skills.</p>
<p>People buy things that they want or need. A product or service. BA’s for the most part are useless in the content that was studied to get it. Employers hire people with these degrees, not necessarily because of what they learnt specifically in the course material but because they became better at time management and sticking with a problem and finding out the answer to it. They are hired because of the BA boot camp (so to speak) that they made it through. Then a person goes on to things like MBAs, JDs and MDs which teach specific skills that are needed to be mastered in order to, not only acquire the required licensure, but to be competent in the job tasks themselves.</p>
<p>Don’t ban BA’s in general. Ban these schools that offer a bogus BA degree in 18 months by only going to class once a week. That’s why the BA is losing its value.</p>
<p>As one or more people posted, we do need more jobs. The problem I have with some of the posts, are the word generate. You cannot just generate jobs!
If that were the case, we could just line up presses and have hundreds of people just punching out hole in sheets of metal and some others sweeping up the little round pieces and others putting those pieces into a furnace and melting them down, then other people pouring the molten metal into thick slabs of metal and others milling the slabs down to thinner sheets of metal and then someone taking those sheets back to the people to punch out holes and make a bunch more little round pieces to be melted down again
That is generating a job… And its ridiculous! This is a continuous loop. There is never a break off showing where the original metal was bought by this company from an outside supplier or a break off from this loop showing where the company sells the final product to a customer. So there is no gain in this model. Its strictly a loss. Where would the money come from to actually pay the workers in a generated job like this? And dont say the government, because the government does not make money by selling a product or service. It only makes money by taking it from other people that work and companies that do sell a product or service. (The stolen money is called Taxes)
First, there has to be a need, a Product (i.e. lawnmower, food trailer, hair brush, make-up) or Service (welding, electrical, Salon, restaurant)
There are thousands of products and services and a lot of time the products are bought and then used as tools to run a service business. Just trying to generate a job without someone that is willing to pay you for it makes as much sense as a mechanic working on his own car just so he has a car to work on. The point is (as if you didnt already know) Thats useless! And you cant pay your bills or eat just by staying busy. So we do not need to build roads and high speed rail, bridges and repair old buildings. Now, we do need to build or rebuild these things from time to time BUT we build them out of necessity for needing another road or building, not because we have people that dont have a job. And we dont need to fix up an old building if there is not some type of business needing the space. Even to do all this stuff youre talking about, you need-> welders, electricians, millwrights, plumbers, masons, insulators, sheet metal workers, painters, pipe fitters, surveyors, scaffold builders, safety people, foreman, general foreman, superintendents and the list goes on. And all of these are people with practical skills. More people should focus on gaining practical skills. It doesnt matter if you just have a high school diploma or a BA, BS, MBA, JD, MD or other degree. If you dont need the practical skill to help you make money, you could always use it as a hobby or to do some project yourself and save some money…
Last thought and a lot of people wont like it but the more you learn about how things actually work the more you will understand this. Once again there are hundreds of thousands of products already in existence that people need. We could bring jobs back to America if we get rid of the unions. Thats right! Hear me out. I dont care what company it is, if operating cost increase then the price the customer pays increases. Thats just the way it works. If you dont believe it then just start you a small business. Start a simple hotdog stand and sell them for the same price that you buy the buns for. And see how that works out for you. You wont last long. Because you have to charge for the buns, hotdogs, mustard, relish, etc. Plus, electricity or gas for your grill. Fuel used to go to the store to get all of this. Maybe even the cost of an Ad you put in the local paper. And you may have to pay someone to help you, even if you dont and you do it all yourself, you have to pay yourself something or youre not making any money. And when the price of hotdogs go up or gasoline or propane or the Ad in the paper goes up, the price of the hotdogs you sell have to go up or you take home less (profit) money for yourself … Its that simple! So when the unions demand higher and higher wages, eventually the price to the consumer gets so high that not many people can afford it. Or as the companies try to keep the cost of their products down, they are taking in less profit until they have to save in some other way to stay in business. So they are forced to shut down at the plants where the greedy unions have taken over for so long. Do you actually believe a person with only a high school education should spend everything they have almost to buy a car while other people with only a high school education are getting 40 and 50 dollars per hour to build that car? I want a person to make as much as they can. As much as their skills allow. But the unions demand higher and higher wages just so they can take more and more of the workers money in fees and fines. These workers pay fees to work. Anyway thats another subject. Get rid of the unions and the workers would still be able to live at the same standard of living that they are use to AND the products would be cheaper for the consumer. But the most important thing is, these companies could come back home and many many more people here in the U.S. could be working again.
We are all born with equal opportunity to become unequal Advance and grow to whatever level your ambitions will take you! We all can increase our own personal minimum wage by additional training and education. A pipe welders minimum wage is around 25.00 per hour. Make yours whatever you want.
Im sure there are typos in this somewhere in case youre just looking to critique. Thank you.
The message should be your focus.</p>
<p>@Blossom - I think that’s what English majors are for. A class or two of Communications might be useful, perhaps, but an entire four years? C’mon.</p>
<p>“Oh god their are some useless degree like commucations that contrib jack **** to job skills.”</p>
<p>Tiako,</p>
<p>The mother of my children majored in communications and became a VP of Marketing. So much for your useless degree theory!</p>
<p>I wouldn’t want to work for anyone who required only a BA to get a position. Experience and skills should be given proper weight, if not the precedent.</p>
<p>A general education is not a bad thing. Have you ever heard of the “Renaissance Man”? Highly specialized degrees actually create fairly ignorant human beings, because they leave out great huge areas of knowledge.</p>
<p>Totally agree! If we all just went to college to learn how to “do” something it would be a sad and lonely place to be human. We go to college to learn about many things that help us stay connected and educated, hopefully, in a diverse and changing world!</p>