Some fun data in that tool. Being in Pittsburgh, I find it amusing the U of St. Thomas considers both Duquesne and CMU as peers, but not Pitt, Penn State, or other schools in between.
Oh, I never thought so. But I do think they worded things in a way that didn’t belittle anyone’s choices. One of my kids highlighted key phrases and wrote things like “That means party school” or “Big time fratty” in the margins for her younger siblings. Which were negatives, but for someone else, strong positives!
Funny, that Amherst lists Colby as a peer but not Bowdoin.
University of Pennsylvania overlaps:
Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Georgetown, & Northwestern University.
Quote from Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020 edition:
“An Ivy League in name. Penn has more in common with places like Georgetown and Northwestern–where the liberal arts share center stage with preprofessional programs.”
“Penn has something else [other than preprofessional programs] other Ivies don’t: school spirit.”
Interesting to note that 7 of the 8 Ivy League schools rarely acknowledge an overlap with a non-Ivy League school.
Dartmouth College overlaps include several non-Ivies: Duke, Stanford, Colgate, Middlebury & Williams College in addition to Ivies Brown, Yale & Princeton.
Harvard overlaps: MIT, Princeton, Stanford, & Yale.
Cornell only acknowledges one non-Ivy as an overlap = Stanford.
Penn views Northwestern University & Stanford as its only non-Ivy overlaps.
Brown’s non-Ivy overlaps are Stanford & UC-Berkeley.
Princeton’s overlaps are: Harvard, Columbia, Penn, & Stanford.
Yale’s only non-Ivy overlaps are: Stanford & MIT.
Columbia’s non-Ivy overlaps are Stanford & UC-Berkeley.
All 8 Ivy League schools acknowledge Stanford University as an overlap school.
Hard to believe that Cornell University does not have Big Ten overlap schools as it is the only Ivy with a School of Agriculture & gets its Presidents from the ranks of Big Ten schools.
Are Ivy League schools afraid of diluting the brand name–Ivy League–if they acknowledge overlap schools beyond Stanford & MIT ?
That’s what I think.
Ivy League overlap schools as shared in the Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020 edition:
Appearing most as an overlap:
Stanford–8 (reported by all 8 Ivies as an overlap)
Yale–7 (all Ivies, except Yale itself, reported Yale as an overlap)
Harvard–6 (all Ivies except Dartmouth College &, of course, Harvard itself)
Princeton–6 (all Ivies except Penn)
Penn–5 (all except Harvard & Dartmouth College)
Brown–4 (all except Princeton, Cornell & Harvard reported Brown as an overlap)
Columbia–4 (all except Dartmouth College, Cornell & Harvard)
Cornell–3 (all except Dartmouth College, Princeton, Harvard, & Columbia)
MIT–3 (all except Dartmouth College, Princeton, Cornell, Penn, & Brown)
UC-Berkeley–2 (overlap to Brown & Columbia)
Northwestern University–1 (overlap to Penn)
Georgetown University–1 (overlap to Penn)
Duke–1 (overlap to Dartmouth College)
Colgate University–1 (overlap to Dartmouth College)
Williams College–1 (overlap to Dartmouth College)
Middlebury College–1 (overlap to Dartmouth College)
Dartmouth College–0 (zero Ivies reported this college as an overlap)
Univ. of Chicago–0 (zero Ivies reported Chicago as an overlap)
Amherst College–0 (zero Ivies reported Amherst as an overlap)
Johns Hopkins–0 (zero Ivies reported JHU as an overlap)
Swarthmore College–0 (zero Ivies reported Swarthmore as an overlap)
Pomona College–0 (zero Ivies reported Pomona College as as overlap)
Bowdoin College–0 (zero Ivies reported Bowdoin College as an overlap)
MIT overlaps include 6 Ivies = Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, CalTech, Cornell, Columbia & Penn.
Northwestern University includes 4 Ivies as overlaps = Yale, Stanford, Harvard, Michigan, Penn, Princeton, WashUStL, & Duke.
Univ. of Chicago includes 5 Ivies as overlaps = Columbia, Yale, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Penn, Northwestern, & Princeton.
Amherst College reports 4 Ivies as overlaps = Williams, Middlebury, Colby, Yale, Brown, Harvard, Princeton, & Stanford.
Swarthmore College reports 5 Ivies as overlaps = Wesleyan, Chicago, Brown, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Penn, & Haverford
Williams College reports 5 Ivies as overlaps = Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Middlebury, Princeton, & Stanford.
Bowdoin College reports 4 Ivies as overlaps = Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Middlebury, Williams, Wesleyan, Yale, & Harvard.
Wellesley College reports 4.5 Ivies as overlaps = Barnard, Brown, Smith, Swarthmore, Yale, UC-Berkeley, Harvard, & Columbia
Stanford University reports 5 Ivies as overlaps = Harvard, MIT, Duke, Yale, Penn, Princeton, Columbia, & USC.
Duke University reports 6 Ivies as overlaps = Brown, Chicago, Columbia, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Harvard, & Stanford.
Johns Hopkins University reports 5 Ivies as overlaps = Penn, Chicago, Brown, Duke, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, & Stanford.
It is a widely accepted “fact” on the Wesleyan campus that Brown is its most numerous overlap. They are geographically close; Middletown and Providence have very similar demographics; both colleges are known for their “flashy” entertainment industry connections. I could go on and on. So, one’s absence on the other’s overlap list would strike an odd, perhaps dismissive, chord IMHO.
Wesleyan University overlaps = Brown, Tufts, Vassar, Yale, Chicago, Swarthmore, UC-Berkeley, & NYU.
Never mind.
Most Elite Colleges & Universities for Academics–2020 Fiske Guide To Colleges thread lists the 36 US colleges & universities which received the highest rating–5 Pens–for academics.
Subtracting the 8 Ivies (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, Brown, & Dartmouth) from the list of 5 Pens for Academics schools leaves 28 colleges and universities which should appear more often on Ivy League schools’ overlaps list if academics is the main attraction to the Ivies for students.
Those 28 schools are:
Amherst College
Barnard College
Bowdoin College
Bryn Mawr
UCal-Berkeley
UCLA
UC-San Diego
CalTech
Carleton College
Univ. of Chicago
Duke
Georgia Tech
Haverford College
Univ. of Illinois
Johns Hopkins Univ.
MIT
Michigan
Northwestern
Olin College of Engineering
Pomona College
Rice
Stanford
Swarthmore
Univ. of Virginia
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
College of William & Mary
Yale
From the above list of 28 colleges & universities, we can eliminate several schools for various reasons.
For example: We can subtract the all female schools–Barnard, Bryn Mawr & Wellesley College–because it reduces the overall eligible applicant pool by about 50% due to single-sex status.
And we can eliminate CalTech, Olin College of Engineering, Georgia Tech, College of Wm. & Mary, and the Univ. of Illinois due to either or both over specialization and public school mission & status.
Also, UCal-Berkeley, UCLA & UC-San Diego as they are publics designed to serve the California residents.
And we can eliminate Stanford & MIT as they are reported as Ivy overlaps.
THat leaves 15 colleges & universities which should be reported as Ivy overlaps if academics is the primary attraction to Ivy League schools.
When we start saying most elite and the Fiske pen as the guide, that’s when these all start to fall of the rails.
CORRECTION: Post #72 above should have listed Williams College instead of Yale as one of the 28 colleges & universities.
Considered mathematically, schools that receive a large number of applications should appear as frequently named overlaps by other colleges. Among smaller schools, Colby — 13,584 recent applicants — should commonly appear, for example, irrespective of which schools students actually choose.
After the above subtractions, 15 colleges & universities remain which on the basis of academics should appear as Ivy overlaps.
The remaining 15 are (and the number of Ivy overlaps reported):
Amherst College–(4)
Bowdoin College–(4)
Carleton College–(just 1 = Brown)
University of Chicago–(5)
Duke University–(6)
Haverford College–(0)
Johns Hopkins University–(5)
University of Michigan–(2)
Northwestern University–(4)
Pomona College–(4)
Rice University–(3)
Swarthmore College–(5)
Univ. of Virginia–(4)
Wesleyan University–(2)
Williams College–(5)
Due to size, location & weather, Carleton College can be eliminated. Haverford College reports zero Ivies as overlaps and, therefore, can be eliminated as well.
But that still leaves 13 colleges & universities which offer outstanding academics, substantial prestige, and all claim multiple Ivy League schools as overlaps. ( For example: Williams College reports 5 Ivies as overlaps, Bowdoin College reports 4, Rice reports 3, Northwestern reports 4, Chicago reports 5, Virginia reports 4, Swarthmore reports 5, Duke reports 6, Amherst reports 4, Pomona College reports 4 Ivies as overlaps, Michigan reports 2, Wesleyan reports 2 & Johns Hopkins reports 5 Ivies as overlaps.)
The most curious omissions from Ivy League schools’ overlaps lists are:
Duke
Chicago
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Williams College
Swarthmore College
Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Univ. of Virginia
Interesting indeed about Ivy League overlaps. Our family considered Duke, Northwestern, and Chicago, even with its lackluster school spirit, similar enough to Penn to include them on D19’s college list. Hopkins would have made the list too but Baltimore seemed less safe than Philadelphia. The Fiske guide is a good resource but families should still do their own research for fit.
Despite how great it is and a useful resource. We all do realize that there was no burning bush involved. Lol.