@Mwfan1921 this student is class of 2028.
@Mina1 you have two more full years of high school left. You haven’t even taken the SAT yet. You don’t have junior year grades.
It’s fine to do some research for colleges, but lots can change between now and when you are in your last year of high school.
Please also try to enjoy being a teenager…the years will go by quickly and you won’t ever get them back.
So, yes, get some info, but there is no reason to make any decision anytime soon.
It was a long time ago. However, at one point I watched the Stanford water polo team practice. Their goalie was amazing, and was also the goalie for the US Olympic water polo team. He was so good that it was hard to believe that it was even possible.
The University of Chicago has some financial issues, thus making a full pay international student attractive to them.
Whoever threw out the idea of athletic recruiting to Stanford-- stop! It is pretty much impossible to reach that standard for a normal athlete, and the OP has not indicated they are pursuring athletic recruiting. It’s as if you said “go be an olympic athlete, that would help!”. Yes, yes, that would indeed help with US college admissions, but also, that’s an impossible standard. So not terribly helpful to the normal applicant.
You, as well as thousands of other international applicants, have also indicated that the US aligns with their personal interests.
I don’t think that a lot of international students truly understand that the seats at the universities are finite. It’s worse and more restrictive at the top 20 schools.
These schools would have no problem filling those seats 20 times over.
Every year, US high schools produce about 35000 valedictorians with perfect grades, scores and ECs. Many of them target the top 20s. It’s extremely competitive.
There are international students who are desperately trying to get admitted to a US university hoping to eventually be immigrated.
As others have mentioned, the student visa expires. You will be educated if admitted, but in 4 years, you return to your home country.
You cannot arrive to the US expecting to be sponsored and stay long term. US immigration rules are extremely strict. Plus, you need to be aware that there is no shortage of Finance and Economics graduates.
US employers are required to employ citizens first, before even considering a non citizen who needs sponsorship. Internships are competitive and US companies often prefer US candidates because those students don’t require sponsorship.
Apply to the colleges but know that it can be difficult to be admitted.
I definitely get the point about expanding the list. My parents are just very set on “household names” otherwise they’d rather I just go to the UK where they’re more familiar with the system. Moving out of Pakistan isn’t a financial issue for us, but they wouldn’t be comfortable sending me halfway across the world unless it was to a truly acclaimed university.
I appreciate the reality check. I’m definitely not under any illusions about how insane T20 admissions are for internationals.
I also understand that the visa and job side is far from guaranteed. I’ve been looking into different paths and backups, but I know so much of it just comes down to performance and honestly just luck with the timing.
Right now, I’m just trying to build the strongest profile I can and keep my options open with other countries too. If you have any actual advice on how to stand out more, whether it’s on the academic side or with ecs, I’d definitely appreciate it.
That’s fair, I definitely see what you mean. I’m not trying to lock anything in this early, I just wanted to get a feel for where I’m at and what I should be focusing on over the next couple of years.
I’ll definitely keep things in perspective, but having some direction now just helps me make better choices with my subjects and activities.
Appreciate the advice!
The point about full-pay being more about removing a disadvantage at need-aware schools (instead of being a huge advantage) honestly makes a lot of sense.
I’m definitely down to do a full Chance Me/Match Me, but I feel like I’m still a bit early for a proper one since I don’t have SAT or A-level predictions yet. I think right now I’m more trying to get direction and make sure I’m building my profile in the right way, especially around finance focused schools.
Once I’ve got SAT and predicted grades, I’ll probably come back with a proper Chance Me.
Like I mentioned, I’ve been looking at schools like Stern, but I’m pretty open to other schools with similar reach in finance.
It would not have any effect in terms of aiding with the admissions process in the UK because, as you stated, they would not consider me a citizen (as I’m not currently domiciled there). But you are right on the point that it would give me the right to reside there after graduating.
I haven’t looked into Canadian universities as my parents would probably not be comfortable in sending me there (we do have many family/business links in the US and Europe, hence focusing more there).
On swimming, I’ll definitely think about it more, but realistically the level here in Pakistan isn’t high enough (especially for girls) and makes it quite hard to train at a truly international competitive level, so I’m not sure how much I can build on that in a short time. I’ll still see if there’s anything I can do with it though.
Fair point on the athletics comment, I agree that was never really part of my plan and the level required for recruiting at places like Stanford is obviously extremely high.
I will definitely be adding UChicago to my list too!
That’s a very fair point, and I think it is fine to start with some basic orientation information then come back later for more detailed discussions when you have more information about your qualifications.
Speaking of orientation, here is a basic thought.
There are actually three legs to the stool of holistic review admissions in the United States: academics, activities (aka ECs), and personality/values/fit. The third leg of this stool can be the hardest for even domestic applicants to really understand, and I think it is often even worse for Internationals, since they are coming out of different cultures generally, and different educational systems specifically. However, the bottom line is all the information we have indicates that for the most selective colleges, there is a much larger pool of people who meet their standards for academics and activities, and then only a fraction of that pool actually gets admitted. And that fraction is mostly determined not by having even better academics and/or activities than other people in that pool, but instead by also meeting their personality/values/fit standards.
OK, so I see a lot of young people targeting the most selective holistic review colleges asking about how they can further improve their academic qualifications or activities list. I almost never see any of them asking about how they can be a better person in the way these schools value. To the extent they discuss it at all, it tends to be in the form of asking what they can do toward the end of the process to basically fake being such a person in essays, or in some activities they don’t actually care about. Not in terms of how to spend years actually developing into such a person.
And this is particularly (although not excusively) true of Internationals. And I believe many of them are going to be added to the long list of highly qualified Internationals each year who are not admitted to any of these colleges.
So that’s something to think about. What would it look like if you took this aspect of holistic review admission at least as seriously as academics and activities, over a period of many years and not just right at the end? What are they actually looking for in a student beyond intelligence, ambition, and hard work? What steps do you need to take to actually be such a person, as opposed to just trying to fake being such a person? What are different highly selective universities actually looking for in terms of a good fit?
These are very challenging questions. To be frank, most of the times in the past I have expressed these thoughts to a young, intelligent, ambitious, hard-working person who is targeting these schools, I get the sense they have decided to largely ignore these issues and continue with focusing just on academics and activities. Internationals in particular seem to struggle to actually believe this could really be true, and/or are daunted by how much that seems to be asking from them that is totally unfamiliar to their school culture, their parents, and so on.
And that’s why it keeps working as a filter for these colleges, not least for Internationals.
But here is one more truth. Non-religious private high schools in the US that send disproportionate percentages of students to the most selective colleges fully understand this aspect of holistic review, and spend a lot of time and effort preparing their students for this component of admissions. And it then works. Like, recent studies have shown that although their better students don’t necessarily get higher academic ratings, they do skew toward higher ratings on this other stuff, and that is the main explanation for why even otherwise similar students get admitted at such higher rates from these “feeder” schools.
So to be very blunt, if you are not coming out of that sort of US private school “feeder” system with that sort of preparation, AND you don’t make every effort to do for yourself what those schools are doing for their applicants, well, your chances are much lower than theirs. Even if you do everything else (and more) that they do in terms of academics and activities.
But if you want to actually stand out, you can stand out by being the rare International who takes this component of holistic review admissions in the US seriously.
The best thing you can do is focus on your grades and preparing well for your standardized tests. Those two things are still the most important factors for college admission.
And yes, it’s still too early to do a chance me. Come back around this time next year!
10 O Levels and 3 Bs wouldn’t put top universities out of reach per se as long as your A Level predicted grades are A or A*, but your odds are indeed much better at need aware universities.
Wrt your 4th subject, for the US a writing-based subject whole definitely help - any subject of interest among the 7 you’re getting As in at OLevel would work, or any other subject that might not be offered at O Level - even Media Studies 
- since the UK choices would only focus on your 3 selected subjects.
You’ll have to select your 5UK unis carefully and ensure there’s one that’s a surefire thing ( a safety, aka somewhere you’d be happy attending even if it’s not a first choice and that you’re sure will admit you.) Guessing LSE, King’s, perhaps Warwick or Durham, Bayes at City St George’s?
At this point, you’re right to focus on building a list.
In the US, beside Cornell, NYU, and others listed here, look into Wellesley, Barnard, (Bryn Mawr??). Those are women’s colleges (called 7sisters, historical moniker in case you want to look it up) so they’re very prestigious but not as difficult to get into as co-ed universities of the same caliber since boys can’t apply.
At this point you could check out Princeton Review’s Best Colleges 2027 (probably published this summer???)
You can also check out this website
https://publicuniversityhonors.com/
Then you’ll apply and see. That’s all you can do. Get a great test or tests if the language one is needed, do well in school and get a great LOR. You have the activities in good shape. It’s a shame though - although there’s great schools in the UK too.
Full pay will help - a lot - even at need aware top 20s. That will be, potentially, a large help.
If you mean wall street finance, there’s few. On the other hand, you’re looking at raw #s. What if you looked at per capita. Schools like Babson and Bentley and I don’t understand your full profile, full pay would help A LOT.
Of course, that’s for American kids - the likelihood to stay, likely very very slim.
In top feeders you see NYU, Michigan, Cornell, Columbia, UC Berkeley, Georgetown, Harvard, USC, U Penn and Chicago.
But it’s very different if you look at per capita (adjust for student size) -
NYU is #21, Babson #22, Fordham #23, Bentley #25, Villanova #26, Richmond #28, CUNY Baruch #30.
Maybe educate your parents - there’s lots of schools here - lots. This is just the top 30. NYU has large #s because it’s a large school. Many schools - beyond 30 - are fantastic - and place. It’s unlikely to be you but since that’s what you seek. This is where full pay can help. Many top schools are need aware for international and with our government pushing internationals away and we don’t know the impact yes - but schools will likely have less apps - and already have admit rates under 10% - which would make your families largesse of full pay $$ even more impactful - if you choose the right schools. This is my hypothesis anyway. But again, I don’t know how to interpret your scores and we don’t know how your SAT will be, etc. But in your case, I believe, the rich can get richer (in regards to school admissions). Good luck.
OP- what is a feeder school for finance FOR AN AMERICAN and what is a feeder school for a foreign national are two completely different animals.
European banks are not lining up to hire students from some of the colleges which have strong programs in the US but are not well known (or understood) overseas. There are many international rankings which will be a lot more useful for you than looking at “where does JP Morgan recruit from” in the USA. Those are recruiting targets for locations IN the USA for American students who are legally permitted to work here. That’s not you…. Full pay or not fully pay– that’s not going to make your immigration issues go away.
I’ll cut to the chase: if you want a list of top-20ish universities (which you state as a requisite) that are need-aware for internationals and have an undergraduate business school/major, they are these:
Cal-Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Emory, Georgetown, Michigan, UPenn, Rice, Virginia, Washington U
If, on the other hand, you would be fine studying Economics, you may also consider the following:
UChicago, UCLA, Columbia, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt
I think you should also consider top need-aware LACs like Williams, Middlebury, Pomona, Swarthmore, Hamilton, and Claremont McKenna – but those are not international names, and I understand if that is a concern. But they (and many more…) are outstanding schools that are likely going to be a bit easier to get into than their university-ranking equivalents.
Finally, about 10-15 extremely well regarded schools are need-blind for internationals. These would confer no advantage to you for your full-pay status. However, if you love them, go ahead and apply. The only way to have a 0% chance of admission is to not send in the app. (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth…)
ETA:
If you are desperate to simply attend any of those schools and their ilk, I get it. But I’d hate to see you get into a school and find out that you don’t really like it – according to location, weather, setting, culture, curriculum, whatever. So I implore you to make a list of the aspects/preferences that are important to you, and choose the schools to which you apply according to those preferences.
In addition, there are a number of US schools that are quite famous internationally, yet not in the top 20 of some (or most) undergraduate rankings. I’m talking about some very good state flagships: the U of Wisconsin, the U of Texas, U of Illinois, U of Washington, U of North Carolina, Georgia Tech (though perhaps not for Econ/Business…), UC San Diego, etc. You probably will have a greater chance of admittance to one or more of these than to the hyperselective T20s you are targeting… yet you would still be at a school with a strong global name and receive a top-notch education.
The US is currently offering a “gold card” permanent residency. OP could look into this.
I think you should do some research/soul searching into what you value at a US university, other than global prestige. Is it the stereotypical American College Experience (college sports, tailgating, relaxing on the quad)? The opportunity to meet and network with an international peer group from a similarly wealthy background? Something else? Assuming you don’t get into a T20, how will you decide which of the many excellent moderately selective US schools to apply to as targets/safeties?
While D1 schools like Stanford and to a lesser extent the Ivies have extremely high athletic standards, other highly academic schools like UChicago, Tufts, Emory, WUSTL, NYU and many top liberal arts schools like Williams, Pomona, and Bowdoin (Amherst is need blind for internationals, so I would avoid it) are D3 schools, meaning their athletics are less competitive. I would definitely recommend making a profile, making/collecting swim footage (ideally at competitions), etc.
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When you do UCAS, if you’re predicted high A level grades, I would definitely at St. Andrews to your list, as it has a lot in common with the US university system and a lot of American international students.
I guess if the family wants to “donate” a million dollars to the US this is a great idea. I am not sure that a teenager would qualify for either the successful business person or “Einstein” visa, but it’s worth a call to the closest US Consulate to find out!
