Pakistani female aiming for t20s, I NEED HELP! [international, O-level 3A*/4A/3B, finance or economics]]

International Students
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hi! i’m an o3 student in lahore currently finishing up my o levels and starting to panic a bit about my uni app. i’m aiming for the t20s/ivies in the us (think columbia, stern, uchicago) for finance or econ.

my parents are super supportive but only if i get into a top-tier school abroad. we’re high income ($1.5m usd/year), so i’ll be applying as a full-pay international student. i’m also half-british, if that matters for anything.

the stats:

  • o levels: predicted (very realistically) 3a*s, 4as, 3bs.

  • a levels: definitely taking maths, econ, and accounting. i’m stuck on a 4th one. would further maths be overkill or is it a necessity for prestigious finance programs? or should i go for something like law/politics to show i can write?

  • planning to give the sat after my may/june exams. ideally aiming for a 1500+

the ecs/awards:

  • started an ngo that taught financial literacy to 250+ adults in my area.

  • research assistant for a lums (top business school in Pakistan) professor on some economics projects.

  • did two accounting/audit internships at internationally acclaimed firms.

  • competing in the cambridge economics and finance competition (cefc) and hope to head to the uk for the finals in july.

  • passed for round 2 of econunited economics olympiad. results still have to be announced

  • won 2nd place in a national level swimming competition

i know that my profile is very weak for t20’s and i really just need some guidance on what areas to improve on so it can really stand out. i know my academics aren’t strong but hopefully an upwards trajectory in my a levels will help out a bit? how much will those Bs be affecting my profile? also, would being a full pay student give me higher chances for any schools?
it’s pretty early to be worrying about this but i really do not want to stay in pakistan for uni due to some personal reasons. even the slightest bit of advice would be helpful!
thanks if u made it all the way here btw :slight_smile:

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You should also consider universities in ex-US countries. The UK makes sense as you say you are half-British, but EU, Australia, Canada could all work too.

@MYOS1634 Can you help direct OP?

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Could you please do a chance me/match me thread and answer all of the questions. What you posted here is particularly confusing regarding the courses you have/will taken.

also, would being a full pay student give me higher chances for any schools?

Only at colleges that are need aware for admissions. Need blind schools admissions won’t have any idea you are full pay. But there ARE top schools that are need aware for admissions.

I agree with looking at colleges in countries other than the U.S. Mostly because acceptance rates for international students at top 20 colleges is VERY low.

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Hi! i’ve also been looking into universities in the UK, but the admission requirements are pretty straightforward and mostly on the basis of a levels predicted grades. US admissions are much more holistic and tend to look at the bigger picture hence the confusion. Plus, I don’t think me having a British nationality would affect my applications to the UK seeing that I would still be considered an international student.

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Have you considered applying to any of the top ranked LACs (liberal arts colleges) ?

Claremont McKenna College might be of interest to you given your business orientation.

Also, consider Barnard College in New York City; it is very closely related to Columbia University.

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Thanks for the catch. To clarify, I’m in the British system (O/A Levels). I’m finishing O Levels with around 3A*s, 4As, and 3Bs. I’ll be starting A Levels now in Economics, Math, and Accounting, and aiming for a 1500+ SAT this summer. I do not currently have all of the stats to post a chance me right now so I hope this clears up the confusion, i’ll be applying in the 2028 cycle.

About the full-pay thing, I know schools like Cornell and NYU Stern are need-aware for internationals, so I was hoping being able to pay in full would help my case, I just wanted to know if it would cause a drastic increase in my chances of admission or not. I’m hoping that the holistic admissions process in the US offsets the O-Level Bs.

As I’ve lived in the UK most of my life, I honestly do not see myself settling down there or in fact, anywhere in Europe, though I will of course apply to other unis as a safety net. The US just seems to align with my personal interests and just need some insight on how I can further improve my profile, seeing I still have around a year left til the admission cycle starts.

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You should not be looking at colleges in the US because you intend to settle here. Spend 20 minutes googling the changes to our immigration policies (even for Internationals with a college degree). You would be issued a student visa with the proviso that you would be returning to your home country after you graduate.

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Please keep in mind that after you graduate, you’ll be expected to return to your home country. A student visa is valid only for the duration of your studies and does not provide a path to permanent residency. To pursue the latter, you typically need to secure a sponsoring employer — which is not at all easy in the current environment.

(ETA: cross-posted with Blossom)

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If your family makes $1.5 million US a year, you don’t have to stay in Pakistan. That you’re only choosing to apply to tippy top schools, though, limits your chances. But full pay does help.

I don’t know how to evaluate your grades but if you were a stud student here, I’d say the same thing. Assuming you meet all the minimal requirements for admission, you can easily study in the US (pending visa approval, etc.).

Expand your list!!! We have hundreds of GREAT colleges!!

Someone upthread mentioned LACs. Many have business programs and many are hungry for full pay internationals.

As others noted, staying here/immigration is an entirely different situation. But you can certainly get educated here.

Good luck.

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So here is how I suggest you think about it.

Pretty much all US colleges either have no budget for International aid, or only a limited budget for International aid (meaning much more limited than their aid for domestic students).

So even the few US colleges which are “meets need” and “need blind” for Internationals have to limit their International aid so as to stay within that budget. And because they are meets need/need blind, the only way to do that is just to limit International admissions generally.

This is bad for full pay Internationals in the sense they sort of get swept up in this general policy.

OK, then colleges which are meets need but need aware for Internationals add another tool for controlling their budget, namely they can specifically limit how many needy Internationals they admit, the limit being whatever they project their budget can handle. This is better for full pay Internationals because now they are not swept up in this policy. In cases like this, Internationals might be admitted at a similar rate to domestic applicants (or OOS domestics as relevant). However, I do think in some ways at least, the International pool might skew more competitive, so similar admissions rates don’t necessarily mean equally easy admissions.

Finally, colleges which are not meets full need for Internationals, which indeed may have no aid at all for Internationals, also are going to be better for full pay Internationals for this reason. In fact, some of those colleges, usually public colleges, actually charge Internationals more than they even charge out of state domestic students. In cases like that, full pay Internationals might actually have a bit of an advantage even over domestics, although often these are not very selective anyway. In my experience, though, a lot of full pay Internationals willing to consider, say, UK options will end up preferring them to such US colleges.

OK, so for very selective US colleges, I would not so much see being a full pay International as an advantage per se. I would say at some very selective US colleges, namely the need aware ones, it is more just a lack of the same disadvantage needy Internationals face. And at other very selective US colleges, namely the need blind ones, you are actually sharing the same disadvantage as needy Internationals.

So personally, I think if you want to maximize your chances of going to a US college, you need to think about not so much focusing on ones that are need blind, and instead at least mostly apply to the ones that are either need aware or have no International aid at all. There are some colleges like that in the US News “T20” national universities this year, but I believe 7 of those (including ND in the tie for #20) are on the need blind list.

That would also not be my top 20 colleges best for people interested in Finance anyway. In fact, you mentioned Stern, which is at NYU, which is neither an Ivy nor in the US News T20.

So, this would be a good reason to do a full Chance Me/Match Me. We could help you identify the best list of US colleges actually suitable for your interests, but which are not meets need/need blind.

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While your academics seem very solid (based on what I know of the British education system), I’m not sure they are going to put you in the mix at T20s. Often accepted international students are among the brightest in their country (not just their school). You might look at schools a notch down from those - a Tufts, for example, which tends to have a very wealthy student profile (as do the Ivies, tbh) but isn’t as hard to get into as a T20. If you are interested in attending university in the US there are many schools that would love to have you but it may not be the huge names you mentioned. Also, please be realistic about the possibility of settling in the US. Just because you’d like to live and work here, doesn’t mean that is going to be possible. At this current time, I definitely wouldn’t bank on it.

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And when you apply for your student visa do NOT mention at all that your goal in attending college in the U.S. is to reside in the U.S. after graduation. My understanding is that is a good way to get your student visa…denied. @Mwfan1921

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I’m not sure I see the problem here. The kind of predicted grades you need for top UK unis are going to be similar to what you need for the top US ones, and it’s more predictable precisely because they’re not “holistic”.

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Stern is #2 undergraduate finance in the US News ranking by program.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business-finance?myCollege=business&_sort=myCollege&_sortDirection=asc

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Indeed. Just for clarity sake, I meant NYU is not one of the current top 20 National Universities on that US News list. The usual sense of “T20” is a reference to the National Universities list, but my point was a generic (and actually limited in scope) ranking like that isn’t very useful.

ETA: In fact off that US News best for Finance list (which I would not necessarily consider definitive either), also not in the T20 National Universities are Texas at #5, BC at #6, UNC at #8, Indiana at #9 . . . I’m still in the top ten!

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Does the UK consider you to be a citizen? My understanding is that this does not help in terms of admissions to universities in the UK (unless you also reside in the UK), nor in terms of the cost of university in the UK. However, this might help a lot in terms of being allowed to stay in the UK after graduation.

I also am wondering if you should be considering top Canadian universities such as Toronto or McGill. UBC, Western, and Queen’s are also very good. I expect I am missing other schools that would be worth considering.

I am also wondering if you are recruitable for swimming. Stanford for example likes students who are academically excellent and also very highly competitive for sports. My understanding is that they do have a swimming team (and water polo also).

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This is a very good point. I know of several students from a local high school who have gotten into Stanford (for cross-country) and Princeton (for football) with grades that are very good, but not superlative. I presume that the swimming coach at whatever schools the OP applies to would need to get involved, but I don’t know how that would work. (We don’t want a Varsity Blues issue to come up.)

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Athletic recruiting is a highly defined process, and there are a number of CC’ers who understand the process well. The Stanford swim coaches may have their recruiting classes full for Class of 2027 at this point. Certainly OP can reach out via email to the appropriate coach, sharing academic and athletic stats. I will note that there are often Olympic caliber swimmers on the Stanford teams so the hurdle to be recruited is quite high.

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I understand; I’m just throwing out the suggestion for the OP, since the suggestion about an athletic hook came up.

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Our school has sent a number of swimmers and water polo players to Stanford over the years and a couple of those have indeed been Olympians.

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