Not just someone’s child but anyone.
“Dad, as old as you are you KNOW you could never forgive yourself if you hurt somebody driving. Will that be your legacy?” Done.
Longtime posters here know that my dad was hit by an 86 year old woman who was driving a brand new Mercedes and confused Drive and Reverse in a parking lot. He suffered a traumatic brain injury and was no longer able to care for himself. It was the start of an 8 year decline in quality of life for him and of course my mom, before both died from indirect effects of this accident.
Mom voluntarily gave up driving because she did not want to hurt anyone the way her family had been hurt.
I always ask people: “Would you let your 6 year old child or grandchild ride with this elder?” Unless you can say an unequivocal “YES” then take away the keys.
I am disgusted at doctors who do not step up and do this with their patients.
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I remember your posts well, @surfcity. I am guessing that helped others with tough decisions. I agree that we all need to step up for safety, Drs and family members alike.
My late mother was riding home with us one Christmas eve and we were almost hit broadside by an errant speeding senior who was related to a family we knew well. When I reported the danger to them, it was clear that they felt helpless as other siblings were facilitating the incompetent driver’s purchase of vehicles after an accident and the sibling we knew did not prevail.
Like a lot of challenges that may advance with age, concerned family members can best assess driving skill set by seeing their relative actually do it. If you’re not sure, go for a ride. Some folks can be cognitively okay in conversations, handle their familiar house and chores well, yet not be able to navigate the complex task of driving.
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Families and health care providers need to step up when things get dangerous. There are mechanisms in place in many states with the right kind of actions by enough people. My brother ‘enabled’ my mother too because she was constant, constant and he was a push over. Well he got her a replacement car, she got behind the wheel lessons, but between our letters and the accident she was involved with (she had to forfeit her license - threat of felony charges if she didn’t) the state would not allow her to get another driver’s license. Many people signed notarized document about the danger with mom behind the wheel. Mom’s lawyer got a confirmation letter from the state that she was permanently barred from getting a WI driver’s license. But there was a local taxi, and mom got use to their VIP service (she tipped well).
I worked in Skilled Care/Rehab - on Rehab side I did admission nursing assessments, so I got to see several people that had driver’s license and then had a severe enough accident to where they had to go through testing (vision, written test, and behind the wheel) to try to get driver’s license back. One lady could not feel the bottom of her right foot due to neuropathy - so she would softly hit some autos when out. Well the last accident was not a soft hit. Her vision also was very bad. Ugh. Another lady’s street was off a very busy road - where you really need to turn right and go to a light to then turn around to go the other direction on that road; well she tried to turn left and didn’t see an oncoming car and got T-boned. Between her judgment, her reaction, and big mistake - and many people do have a conscience.
But the ones that don’t have a conscience, and the MDs, the adult children, and the community that doesn’t intervene.
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I will add you have to monitor seniors constantly. My dad was fine driving in November when I was visiting. Just the next month, he started struggling. He’s not driving now but wants to. I’m glad my sister is nearby and will make sure he doesn’t.
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I had not read your terrible story before @surfcity . 
I think we have to be careful to not too much blame on docs for this. They are often advisors but not deciders. If the elderly person is relatively healthy otherwise the doc may not see them more than once or twice a year for primary care stuff. Family is more likely to have more contact - and see the subtle or obvious changes in an elderly person’s abilities. If you see them in person or if you talk with them on the phone.
Or we can blame the system. Maybe after a certain age we need to have more frequent license renewals with eye screenings or driving screenings. I don’t know.
I think a doc should certainly speak of if it’s clear driving is a problem. I think they can def support a families decision to take away keys. But to me, ultimately it’s the family’s course of action to take. No matter how unpleasant. You can try your best to make it unpleasant by offering positive alternatives.
I have often (because not all cases) felt it was a family/loved ones cop out to rely on the doc to break the news.
In the end we all have to make a choice but make the priority in that choice SAFETY.
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Some elderly will take news better from an authority. They still may feel the P-A-C (parent, adult, child) relationship, where they do not realize that they are not the authority over safety decisions.
If an adult clues in the MD about parent issues, the MD can advise how he/she will or won’t handle, what their limitations may be, etc.
Also relying on the doctor may not be a cop out, it may preserve a good relationship between the older person and the family. Although it didn’t in my case!
With dementia they aren’t amenable to logic and rationality. So for my mom, the failing of the driver’s assessment, the doctor speaking with her, the state permanently pulling her license: it all didn’t matter to her. Everyone else was wrong, or her daughter (me) “got to them”. She insisted she was fine to drive (and still does, to this day).
Families have to make the hard decisions – that’s what being a responsible adult is. (Since I went through it, including having my mother despise me, I have very little patience with families that don’t have the courage to do the right thing).
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After I reported my mother to the PA agency and she could no longer drive- her doctor was advised. The next visit she told him and he agreed that she should not drive. She fired him. He said don’t worry ‘it’s a till death do us part’. She did not remember firing him on the next visit (Alzheimers).
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Of course there are situations where the doc’s words/recommendations may work best. It’s not an “all or nothing” situation. I believe I said that. 
There have been plenty of cases/situations just on this thread of a family member (not the poster) throwing up their hands and saying “I’m not doing it”.
Also understand trying to preserve a relationship. But the end goal is keys out of hand or a car out of the driveway when it’s time. Survey your own situation and figure out a way - be safe not sorry.
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Yes to stepping up as indicated. I have seen family members not only struggle with being the ‘heavy’, but also hesitate because once their relative can’t drive, many other logistics of their senior’s life may come into play. Do they need to move? Go to AL? Rely more on family? Not every area has workable alternatives for transportation, grocery delivery, etc. I also know people with siblings who want to avoid moves to elder housing of any type to preserve as much of their inheritance as possible(!). Makes the driving issue even more fraught. Helpful to have conversations in advance of a crisis (with sibs, competent parents, etc) and back chain possible game plans from the ‘no driving’ circumstances.
It’s a lot and admire how much folks are tackling with careful thought here.
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If I were the Local Sibling, I would have taken Mom’s keys already. (I don’t trust her to not drive just because she hasn’t got a license). She has had no accidents, does not drive after dark, and only goes into town (a drive of about 4 miles). There is no Uber, no taxi, no mass transit or alternative of any kind. I say “great, let’s quit while we are ahead” and the three of them say “it’s not time yet, we got this, you worry too much, don’t meddle”
But I am not local, and do not see her on the weekly or daily as Local and Preferred do. Is that a plus? We don’t know. When I bring it up she becomes even more despondant about her limitations and dependancy. LS and PS worry that no keys will tip her into genuine attempts to just die; they prefer to keep driving her as they can and as needed until she is in a better place. But they can’t drive her everywhere (she will agree to be picked up by LS and then sneak out early to “save him the trouble”)
In her mind , giving up the car is agreeing to the AL facility in town (none of us are impressed by it) or living with me (which puts her 200 miles from everyone and everything she knows). We are working on it. It’s so good to hear everyone’s stories because I feel less like I am crazy to think the time has come.
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Our relative was a terrible driver when she was even in her 50’s. Awful. I flatly refused to ride in a car she was driving and also refused to allow her to drive our kids anywhere.
This relative still has their license, but doesn’t have a usable car. Good.
My dad was an interstate truck driver as his career. He drove millions of miles and never had a citation for anything. When he was 85, he decided to turn his license back into the state. I happened to be there and he asked me to drive him…so I called my sisters and they said to do as he asked. He then titled the car over to another relative. He said, he knew his reflexes were not the same and didn’t want to risk his perfect driving record.
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I’ve talked about it before but my in laws are trying to decide if they can attend my daughter’s wedding 800 miles from where they live.
I feel as the daughter in law that my advice needs to be tempered. I find that my husband and his brother do not want to make any decisions or give any advice.
I will tell the in laws what going to this wedding 800 miles away entails. Then they say they will see how things go. And around and around it goes.
Do I and my husband think that my fil can make the trip there and back. And attend the wedding that’s the wedding and the reception in different places? No, not really, I’m afraid that the flight will tire him out and he won’t be up for the ceremony. Is my mil listening? No not really to that either. And my husband won’t give them his opinion.
My brother in law won’t be helpful. My in laws will have to navigate the airport by themselves. I’m not even sure my fil can walk to his seat. He can walk short distances. But it’s very tiring.
My husband is not going to pay for us to fly to the wedding to accompany his parents. That’s his choice. My in laws haven’t offer to pay for us either.
My mil wants us to tell her what to do. We talk about the challenges. I feel like she’s not hearing us. She called again today and wanted us to think about it. How many times do I have to say what I think? And how many times will my husband not say what he thinks.
Would you have to repeat yourself as often if your husband made one definitive statement about how they could “see” the wedding, perhaps have a quick call with the happy couple. etc without going through the difficult parts of travel? That everyone could have their peace of mind and it would be okay. Work arounds are easier than ever to set up and if ‘missing the wedding’ becomes we’ve found ways for you to still be part of it, that may help. Is it possible that her expressed wish for guidance is really a need for permission to celebrate in an alternative way?
I feel for you. This is an important time for your family. It’s a fast moving, meaningful event. From past circumstances you’ve described, you’d likely need a full time reliable companion to support them through the events so that you and H can actually be there, focussed on the couple. You’ve all navigated so much; I hope you have a workable plan soon.
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To me…..
You and your husband are parents of the bride and should be able to enjoy the wedding and festivities without the added worry of the in laws. Them getting there, them being there, them getting home. What would be really great is if the BIL or another family member that is NOT you and your H would take the initiative and “take one for the team” and go and handle all those things related to the in laws. Flying with them, staying in a hotel room next to them, getting them physical to any/all wedding festivities - really being the one right at their side through it all.
But sounds like isn’t likely to happen.
I’m a pretty giving person I think. And most times put others before myself. But I have to say for my child’s wedding…..I sort of want as little responsibility as possible besides what I need to do that day for my child and to get the event off the ground if needed. I would not want the stress of worrying about the in laws (do they have a drink? did they get in their hotel room ok? Are they tired? Can they walk as far as needed? Do they need help getting in the car? Do they need to visit the ladies/men’s room……the list goes on and on)
Edited to add: you should not feel selfish or unreasonable to want to be able to fully and joyfully enjoy the wedding festivities and focusing on your daughter. It is one day. One day that won’t be repeated. It’s your day as well as the bride and groom. Don’t feel bad about that!
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I agree you need another family member to step up. I navigated both of my sibling’s kids’ weddings for my mother (my D was also very helpful) but I would not do it for my own child’s wedding. Otherwise, a zoom option or some other option sounds best. I assume there is no way your MIL would attend without your FIL? Assuming they could get someone to stay with him/look in on him (depending on how much care he needs)?
DH’s parents were driven by DH’s brother to DD1’s wedding (100 miles south of our home) and a year later to CO (from WI) also by this brother for his son’s wedding. BIL is single, but went beyond for his parents on both trips. What a big decline in their health from one year apart. However it was all a challenge, but a bit spread out during the wedding times due to others ‘taking over’. I had to do a lot of work at home to feed and house the 4 adults for ‘respite’ for 2 days after the drive, then after the wedding, instead of us being able to stay a bit with everyone, in-laws wanted to ‘go home’ because they were ‘tired’. They could have stayed at the hotel a bit longer and rested with a later check out, but no, we had to cut off our enjoyment just because. Challenges included FIL forgetting his dress shirt for the wedding (sent DH out to Kohl’s for the shirt purchase, as I was busy fixing lunch meal before a group went to hotel before rehearsal dinner). I got my hair done a day earlier than I would have due to having to be at home with house full (and also avoided going to the salon with MIL). DH took MIL to hair salon - and so glad I wasn’t there – she was picky, picky, picky. I would have been so embarrassed. When DH was going to take MIL to the hair dresser, MIL asked “when are you getting your hair done?” and my hair was already done. After the wedding, they only stayed the one night (I had prepared a big meal - some of it was ‘pre-preparation’ when I actually left our home too late to get to rehearsal dinner (I didn’t need to be there) - in hindsight, I would have needed to get up very early on Friday to pack my suitcase, and I was glad for the extra sleep. Everyone was sitting down at rehearsal dinner (but nothing had started yet) when I arrived - and it all was fine. We had a whole table of clergy, and I was able to go around and greet them all (some were not participating in the wedding, but were around and invited along) - and I was able to go around various tables and meet the guests. Rehearsal was laid back - Mexican Buffet, great catering. I had brought bar mixes, drinks, snacks for our suite so people could come for after dinner drinks. DH went with his parents and some others up to our suite, while I went with others to the hotel bar. Later DH said I ‘ditched’ them. Yes, and I had a wonderful time with some of the younger cousins (also meeting and getting to know nephew’s fiancée). I really wasn’t missed at our suite. Saturday, after the dinner/dance ended, others also came up to our suite for drinks - and that worked out nicely as well. The mornings, there was a buffet breakfast from 6 am to I believe 9 am, so that worked out to eat and visit with others. I made sure to get to Sunday breakfast with sister and BIL, as they had an early flight.
DH’s parents wanted to come to both weddings despite their fatigue. DH’s other brothers and DH call the single brother ‘Saint XXX’ with going the ‘extra mile’ with managing his parents’ transportation.
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My sibling has offered to drive my mom to the wedding since my mom refuses to fly by herself any longer. It’s a great sacrifice for them, done for my daughter. If this can be done, it’s a great thing. Will my mom balk at the last moment? Will my sibling have a crisis? Who knows.
My husband’s sibling is not one that would voluntarily or willingly help out. Will they even attend the wedding? Who knows? He’s a great guy but not a person that we have any idea if he will actually attend. Helping his parents? Seems extremely unlikely.
My in laws wouldn’t dream of asking either. The solution would be my mil attend without my fil. She refuses to even consider it. I gave her some suggestions of how she could attend and leave my fil home. It’s a no. I’m surprised that I have brought up my mil attending without my fil and every older person I told has told me that they wouldn’t consider it either. That my mil is correct in not finding a solution for my fil to be home.
As far as finding a way for them to view the wedding on line. It’s been impossible to try and get them to figure out how to see their great granddaughter, so I don’t see how that works. It’s a nice idea.
So I see it as my husband and I would be alone in this situation. It would be up to us. My daughter only scheduled this wedding so her grandparents could attend.
We have another week long destination wedding 6 weeks later. No grandparents are going to that one.
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This is what happened at the Thumper family weddings. Siblings other than the wedding couple parents helped the grands attend, and stayed with them, and traveled with them. The parents of the bride and groom were the wedding hosts, and simply could not do this other.
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