After reading the posts on this thread, I doubt that the child could convince her father to do something different than driving himself. We all know how stubborn our elderly parents can be! So, the advice to make the trip easier for him by helping, probably isn’t bad.
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That it the attitude I want from my own kids when my time comes.
For my mother, she was more ready to go than I was (though I honored her wishes to seek no treatment). Then it did take a bit of convincing for her to move from “not yet” on involving help from local Hospice organization to “Ok - if that makes your load lighter”. That was good because it was early Covid, and arranging help other ways was hard.
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My uncle passed away in 2021.
My mom was 82 at the time and decided that she was going to drive to the funeral. The distance was around 450 miles. Instead of flying to my sibling and having sibling drive her there within the same state.
My sibling was irritated, I was irritated, mom was resolute that she was going to drive. We definitely tried to talk her out of it.
And then she was confused and angry that her sisters also thought it was a bad idea.
There is more to this story but mom was not going to let anyone tell her otherwise about driving.
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I’m so sorry MamaLilKat. Sometimes those surgeries can be “successful” but too hard on a person.
My dad at 77 had a big surgery (basically open chest surgery) that we weren’t sure he would survive. He did survive, but was never ever the same again. He spent 7 years in a nursing home afterwards. Technically the surgery was successful because they repaired what needed to be repaired, but the outcome was definitely not what we were hoping for.
So sorry.
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My sister’s MIL had surgery for breast cancer in her 90s and really didn’t recover very well—got pretty feeble/fragile. She died not that long afterwards, tho the surgery was “a success.”
It’s hard to have good answers and accurate info about what to expect when an elder has surgery. I’m sorry for all on this journey.
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Reminds me of my dad’s heart surgery in 2019 at the age of 81. He was doing SO well before that - I’d had a hard time keeping up with him overseas a few months before. He had so many complications related to the surgery that he hasn’t been the same since. The doctor had told him it was not a risky procedure and it would give him another 20 years (seems a little optimistic to me, ha). I’m not sure Dad would do it over again.
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My H had beam radiation & radioactive beads for prostate cancer plus testosterone suppression. After 6 months of the medication we said enough. H was miserable and we said he was tired of feeling so awful and wasn’t going to live another 40 years regardless. The oncologist wanted him to take the rx did 12-24 months!
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I’m so sorry about the sudden decline of your dear mother. That is shocking and so hard. May you all continue to help each other as your journey together ends and she enters eternal life.
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When my mom was in the hospital 2 years ago for 5 days because of a terrible infection from kidney stones we found out that she has a very large stone in one of her kidneys. The nephrologist determined that the stone was much too big to try and blast so that it would breakdown. When we met with the doctor to talk about surgery to remove the stone my mom asked him if he would want his mother to have this surgery if she were my mom’s age (82 at the time). The doctor told her no. So for the past 2 years they have been doing ultrasounds every 6 months and monitoring the stone. My mom has not had any problems since that hospitalization. Mom has been healthy and active and is currently on an 18 day trip to visit her 91 year old sister and 81 year old brother in PA. I firmly believe that surgery is not always the right thing to do especially for those over 80.
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Typically, a large stone is removed because of the very real threat of kidney infection (as your mom discovered). I have been through this. But I 100% agree that surgery is not always the best choice for an older person. Once we reach a certain age, benefits and risks have to be considered carefully.
H & I have talked about our thoughts on surgical interventions and chemotherapy as we age, and we’ve discussed it with our kids so that they are aware of our choices. I cannot imagine that I would choose chemo at 85, for example … I am well aware that I have an expiration date, and while I don’t yet know the actual date, I do know that I want my final years to be filled with happy times. I saw the pain my SIL went through for breast cancer treatment, and while it was worth it for her at 71, I don’t want it in my late 80’s.
Because I know the feeling of losing parents, I want to make sure my kids understand how I feel & why I would/would not want certain interventions before we are faced with them.
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The latest here is that my dad is back in the hospital with a UTI. He is currently under observation, not officially admitted, though. This is important because the time there (been there since last night) does not count toward the 3 day inpatient minimum needed so he can be eligible to be discharged to rehab instead of back home. We desperately need him to be admitted and eligible to rehab because my mother is done caring for him at home, and will do whatever is necessary to ensure that he does not come back home until he is physically strong enough to manage the stairs and do without a full-time aide. I don’t really know how this is all going to shake out. Can she simply refuse to bring him home? 
As an aside, a good friend of mine notified me this morning that her mostly healthy 85 year old mother passed away suddenly, unexpectedly, and peacefully last night. I am ashamed to write that my second thought after being shocked and saddened for my friend, was to feel envious of the situation. I hate what these last 6 months with my father’s illness have done to feelings about him/his life. 
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Unfortunately, it’s not that simple. Getting admitted for the three day period would be the optimal solution, but that’s a double edged sword as it involves a turn for the worse. You may have to bite the bullet to do in-patient rehab on your parents’ dime - I assume that is possible, but I don’t know the cost.
My mom had a really hard time her last couple years. My dad died in his sleep while still in “okay” health. Both situations sucked, but yeah, Dad’s death was “better.” Unfortunately, we get what we get. Keep venting here. Hugs.
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We did self-pay rehab so yes it’s possible (my mom was never officially admitted for either of her hospital stays). It was over $3k per week in our lower (but not super low) cost of living area so in the short-term doable. My mom doesn’t have a ton of money but even she could manage three weeks of that and a couple months of assisted living (which is significantly cheaper) out of savings before long term care insurance kicked in. But if you don’t have LTC insurance - and many of us don’t - that $3k plus per week is not doable for long. And for many people not doable at all.
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If the patient is unstable or unsafe to be discharged, you can object to discharge if there is no safe place to discharge the patient. This can buy a little bit of time. Try working with the discharge nurse and team to figure out what options may be available. So sorry for this challenge. We had a tough time as well because our parents POA (my older brother) was very out of touch with reality as to what the parents’ medical conditions actually were and what was realistic going forward.
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I agree with this. Try to buy time as much as possible. Also sometimes weekend overnights in the hospital buys a little more time as well along with the ideal rehab facility may not have immediate room. Ask for specific one if you and your family have preference - location etc. also sometimes if social worker understands how verbally abusive your mom was exposed to may help buy time so he can go to rehab and mom can receive respite too.
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It’s important to convey that the house is NOT a safe place for discharge. You may not actually have to appeal, as long as you make your concerns and objections understood and heard! They hate the extra paperwork and time it will take for an appeal to be heard and pending the appeal, the patient stays at the medical facility. You are correct the patient has to be an in-patient for at least 3 days to qualify for skilled nursing. Then the patient has to make progress.
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I would try to have locals get together with a hospital social worker and see what route can work for him. Also with his long-time physician(s) - to see what can be done.
He may not be deemed eligible for rehab for a variety of reasons - and if he doesn’t have the admit days, you will need to see where you can transfer him and what payment options are required.
Based on his prior admission, was there some kind of psych eval that wasn’t done and can be done now? Maybe there is a route there to then eventually go to rehab once he has had some kind of medication adjustment.
Need to explore all the angles IMHO. Something has to work because he cannot go home. This has been tried and has failed.
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I don’t know this is an appropriate time for a bit of levity because we are all dealing with so much stress. I’ll explain - mom called a few days ago in the early morning desperately crying due to pain and that she couldn’t walk. I am the eldest, local and provide all aspect of help for her in the last 3 years and when dad was declining with vascular dementia. I got there and she was in an ice cold house in bed shivering and fetal position. After trying to go to the bathroom at 3 am, she realized that she couldn’t walk and stood there for 30 minutes crying and soiled herself. She figured out she could crawl to bed (before changing her clothes somehow). She didn’t call me until 8 am. I feel terrible that she suffered alone. She was fine just 2 days prior when she visited and we walked around to view the different garden beds in the yard. I brought her to my home to figure out her health situation and convalesce. The good news is her team of doctors were quick to schedule appointments and tests. Today finally she’s feeling better, pain free for the most part, and we will see the orthopedic on Monday.
Here’s the levity part, on our drive back from MRI today, mom said I hope I don’t have to suffer long when I die. That is what she hopes. I responded not one of her family members died instantly pain free. We went through each of her parents, 7 siblings (6 died and 1 - 94 years old sister is bed ridden in skilled nursing). Each suffered for years before their end. Mom and I had a weird belly laugh discussing it.
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You have to find your outlet, and whatever works for the two of you is good. My mom knew she was actively dying (she was a nurse, so ), and I asked her to hold on until my brothers got there. When they arrived, we all talked, held hands, prayed with her. She fell asleep. When she woke up, she immediately asked, “What the h**l am I still doing here?” We all burst out laughing.
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Fortunately, mom won’t be dying. I am hopeful that she’ll recover with a lot of PT and cortisone injection, and avoid surgery. However, she will most likely need to use a walker for a good period or forever. I am making her use it since she’s staying with us. She is more stable using it and I told her so. She said if she has to use it long term what’s the point of living. She said she can’t go to church (twice a week) or to her senior center activities (3 times a week) with it. She finds it mortifying and supposedly not one single member at either place uses it. I explained multiple times that if she falls and breaks her hip, she will definitely suffer in pain for a long time and not die right away.
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