Parents caring for the parent support thread (Part 1)

Parent Cafe
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MIL understands that I ‘get it’ where her sons and other DILs do not - as far as them wanting choices and the kind of help they want; often listening better and asking questions. In part because I am a RN who has worked psych, AL, know a lot of people in various situations, and own mother had a lot of issues. I am not so close to the emotions like their sons are. BIL the pharmacist also usually gets it, but even he does things like give the child proof med bottles when his mother has swollen hands and fingers from arthritis and other medical and can’t easily open (so she leaves them with the top loose on the dining room table.) I think FIL fills his 7 day medicine pill box, so that way he is spending little time when it is time to take his medication.

The amount of resistance to change that is warranted. LF, glad your mother is in a place she chose and is adapting to.

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@1214mom, what a challenge you have! You can possibly come up with an optimal plan, then find a way to live with whatever subset of that plan she will cooperate with. Best of luck.

And LF, maybe your mom’s situation just proves that there is a petunia in every onion patch. Just this once, she found a way to be happy with something you did. Celebrate.

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Thanks to everyone who has offered support. I thought I checked Humana once before and it looked like it didn’t work in MD, but based on info. here, I checked for Humana medicare, and it looks promising. I’m going to call tomorrow. She really doesn’t want anyone “in her business” and she thinks her doctors are fine, but she is not doing well at all, cries and sleeps most of the day, and hardly eats at all. Clearly there’s more than one issue. When I try to talk to her, it stresses her out, and leads to more crying and sleeping, and Then she claims she can’t eat because her stomach is upset, and she’s probably taking all this pills on an empty stomach, which I’m sure is not good for her to do. She asks the same questions many times, which is very worrisome, but I’m not sure if that’s a symptom of her other issues, or is really dementia starting. Getting her anxiety/depression in order may be most important at this point, but neither of those is easy to deal with. Fortunately I have quite a bit of leave, because I’m sensing this could be the start of a long journey. It is hard to be gone from my office, but this is one of those really important things that needs to be dealt with. I am also going to try and get her to sign medical release, etc. forms at this point, if that’s appropriate.

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1214mom, if she won’t allow you to go with her to the doctor it’s still possible for you to call her doc and tell them of your concerns. Not sure if they’d listen though.

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Wonderful LF! Wow, less than $3,000/month is really a good price.

1214mom,. It’s clear your mom needs help and it looks like your job will be very difficult. If she doesn’t want help, your hard job will be even harder. I suspect she will want to go back to Fla where her home is, her doctors are who will give her pills, and her friends/sisters are. Even just the property/mortgage issue alone will prevent you from easily moving your mom to MD. Take it one step at a time. This sounds like chronic health issues that have been ongoing for years. Take a big breath and slowly work to a situation in which you can supervise her more closely.

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Yes Humana’s Medicare Supplement may be in states that their ‘regular’ insurance is not. We had a Humana Hospital before they sold it, as they were wanting to expand their insurance lines.

I don’t know if doctors/offices that take Medicare also will file the supplement, or how that coordination works.

Start with phone calls to check out rehab facilities that MD and physician/other sources can recommend for seniors and that will take her insurance - what about outpatient? Since there were recommendations from her FL docs to get into rehab, that could help with your local docs and programs. With outpatient, she could go to the all day program and you can keep up with your job @1214mom . They can evaluate the medications she needs to be on and what is harmful for her. I was very impressed at a psych continuing ed session with a physician that works with addiction rehab - so many of their clients/patients are very smart and manipulative.

My mother was on heavy psych medications - she took meds rather than ever trying to use talk therapy or actually take any responsibility for any psych problems. So her decline with dementia was probably moved along with those meds.

Sending more hugs.

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Thanks everyone. Turns out she can only go to ER in MD. She is not liking the idea of staying here, and I don’t think I can force her. I am taking it one day at a time, trying not to be too over-bearing, and letting her decompress some. I can easily change her insurance to one where she could use docs in MD, and pay the extra myself, but only if she agrees to it. I plan to talk to her a little more each day.

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Oldmom, thanks for that article. The comments are good too. Every situation is different, and each family must find their own best solution. One commenter pointed out that trying to maintain a parent at home can imprison the caregiver too.

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My mom actually seems to be doing a little better each day. She definitely has issues, probably clinical depression plus some other things. She can’t handle much stress. today she didn’t spend much time crying, and she was awake most of the day. I hate to say it, but I suspect she’s going to insist on going back to be with her sisters and stay miserable and enabled.

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FIL 95 lives in his home alone- he qualifies for meals on wheels from the county . I attempted to fill out online the MOW form for him but there was something wrong with the form and after an hour of trying it would not go through. I called the county agency on the 8th- they said that they require a phone call to him ( I told them he is HOH and is hard to reach) and then set up an appointment to meet with him at his home. They said they would go out that week. He told me he had no calls from them. ( This is 1000 miles away from us.) I called them on the 18th and they said they had not got around to contacting him yet. How many days would you wait to call again? They seemed irritated that I called them on the 18th and I tried to be nice. Ideas?

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@rockymtnhigh see if his county has a senior ombudsman or other senior services - MOW often has lots of volunteers. Maybe they are having some administrative issues or having trouble finding enough volunteer drivers to deliver the meals. Is there anyone locally that you can have be your advocate for him? Someone from his church, or a neighbor that is a SAHM?

Sometimes it is just getting into the system. I know with my in-laws in WI, MOW wants to make sure the senior really wants the meals (they don’t want to get in a ‘battle’ between the senior and their relatives/friends). Also my in-laws get charged maybe $3.25 per meal - they have the option to cancel meals if they call before 9 am. Most weeks they like having the meals, but they like the change too. Their local MOWs use to be seasoned to taste better, as their local hospital provided the meals but then they were going to charge more and in their area, MOWs had to keep the cost of meals down. I can also understand that some ‘seasoning’ can be limited with senior diets - restrictive salt etc. FIL uses his dentures but MIL does not. Neither can eat lettuce salads anymore because it is too hard for them to be able to chew/eat.

My mother had MOWs in her WI town - but my brother was there to help coordinate. They were happy with the service. Mom would donate extra to the Senior Center, which is where MOW in her area was coordinated.

This is the first year my in-laws have used MOWs. Partly due to MIL hardly driving any more, being too tired (heart issues). Both FIL and MIL should restrict their salt intake - both have swollen legs and should be ambulating more. However I guess when I get to 85/86 I will see how I will be…but I sure will pay attention to being able to ambulate and having my legs stay in great shape.

I was at a church-based illness support group (for ST and LT health issues and caregivers) last night, and saw a locked, time medical dispenser that can be bought on-line - it is the size of a plate, and can dispense pills up to 4 times a day. With the locked lid off, you can see the little pockets for the pills to be placed. When the alarm goes off, the senior tips the small lid with the pill(s) to be dispensed then. The nurse talked about a patient that needed eye drops at various times (different drops at different times of the day) - what they did was have a color code in the time disc, so the senior would know - green, use the green marked eye drops; red… - the eye drops helped the senior from going blind. The nurse talked about one lady, who confused the morning dose alarm with wake up alarm, so she would have her breakfast but forget her pills - so they set up a separate alarm clock right next to the tray on the kitchen table, and then she had two alarms, so the morning pills were not forgotten. The nurse even talked about how a senior tried to pry the lid off the medical dispenser (to take pain meds sooner than scheduled) and was unable to do so.

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Any support groups for the “other child” - one who doesn’t live local but wants to stay involved with her ailing father, but her mom and her local sister both hide information from her?

Is there anything short of actually moving there (2 hours away) for a few days to try to hash out what is going on?

In short, mom bought an apartment, no provisions for dad to move in there. Dad just got out of hospital and into rehab; their house is not sold so he would go “home” but mom would not be there, just a few hours a day aide.

Unfortunately, drug addiction (prescription, as if it matters) and mental illness (likely both parents) is likely involved as well.

Should I recommend she skip the trip to see what is going on, and see a counselor instead? Or support that she must find out what is going on in person? (she truly believes he may die in a week or two and is already “regretting” that she hasn’t spent enough time with him)

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rhandco- This certainly seems to be a situation in which you need to go there to see what is going on. There are several things that are going on with your mom. She clearly feels the need for physical separation from your dad. She is perhaps tired or not ready for the caregiver burdens? Might your dad be abusive? Mentally or physically? Maybe she feels she needs to move on with her life and is preparing for your dad to die soon. Is this a good chance?

It sounds like your sister is your mom’s confidant and probably sworn to some sort of secrecy. Perhaps there stuff about your dad they don’t want you to know about. But, I think you need to be there to figure all this stuff out.

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Thanks for everyone’s support. This is such a great community!

1214mom, getting meds straight with a parent who is anxious and depressed is so difficult. After my moms stay in hospital for the flu over New Years, we put her into the geropsych to try to get it all set. She spent so much time sleeping and sobbing that it was our last resort. Unfortunately it didn’t work as well as it could have (many reasons), but worst was continuing support after hospitalization. Moms psychiatrist of several years (grrr) has no follow through and basically has abandoned her. Finding mental health care for elders on Medicare is next to impossible.

With mom it has been 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. She seemed to be improving after the last hospital stay, enough that H and I went away for a planned break last weekend. On Sunday she had a kind of relapse. No seizures, but more of the out-of-it, not being able to speak, refusing, or being unable, to help get herself from bed. She saw a cardiologist on Monday as they were worried about a slow heart rate. Seeing her prior to the appt was heartbreaking. She was more lucid, but saying a lot of non-sensical things.
I spent yesterday evening with her and was sure that we’d be doing funeral arrangements soon.
They put her on an IV on Monday to up her sodium levels and today she was totally different. Not great, but vastly improved.

Things I’ve learned this week:
Low Sodium levels can cause confusion
Doctors don’t know everything, and diagnosing geriatric patients is hard
Be careful what you say to an elder who seems to not be taking things in. The next day they can remember alllll sorts of things you said

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Today we had funeral services for my aunt. It was low-key and my dad gave the eulogy. He said that she had a “tragic life,” which to me is very sad, but truly how dad saw her life and I believe she saw it as well. She was always a glass is 1/2 empty person instead of 1/2 full. It just made me stop and think of the many blessings I and my extended family have, to have one another and the closeness among us is priceless! I feel very, very fortunate!

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So sorry HImom - I hope she saw her life differently - I thought my mom had a good life but she was sure the complainer!

And on these notes, firstly, I didn’t make it clear, but it’s not my family, it’s my closest friend’s family. To be honest, if it were my family, my husband being around would help the situation and I would go there. But my friend’s husband is not around…

…rhandco- This certainly seems to be a situation in which you need to go there to see what is going on.
<<<<I agree. She is lucky she has time for a short while now.

…There are several things that are going on with your mom. She clearly feels the need for physical separation from your dad. She is perhaps tired or not ready for the caregiver burdens?
<<<<I agree. Definitely, but she has basically been caregiver for him for several years as in making him each meal (he won’t eat on his own), and I believe she is “done with it”.

…Might your dad be abusive? Mentally or physically?
<<<< Yes, her mom has told the dad’s doctor that he is abusive, but frankly it looks like Alzheimers or dementia, so those are known side effects. He is so very weak however that I cannot see any potential for physical harm. And he does not eat right and is addicted to pain pills (she isn’t sure how bad, but seems to be pretty bad).

…Maybe she feels she needs to move on with her life and is preparing for your dad to die soon. Is this a good chance?
<<<< This is where it is complicated. The mom wants to hold 100% of the purse strings. She doesn’t want to get divorced even though she clearly wants nothing to do with the dad - because of money. There are issues like the dad wants to leave 50-50 to each daughter, but mom has already given expensive jewelry directly to the local daughter Everything points to her mom wanting to move on for years and years.

…It sounds like your sister is your mom’s confidant and probably sworn to some sort of secrecy. Perhaps there stuff about your dad they don’t want you to know about. But, I think you need to be there to figure all this stuff out.
<<<< Yes, that is what she thinks. And recently there was significant health news from three years ago that popped up, and the mom acted like she never knew.

I am so sad for her, I am lucky that even my sibling who used to beat me is now relatively reasonable as an adult. But that family is so dysfunctional - dad is likely prescription med addicted, mom is likely bipolar. It’s like a horror story, and the end game is either he goes into a home (but that costs money and the mom wants to keep it all - supposedly she has more than enough for her to be comfortable indefinitely and him to stay in a home indefinitely) or he passes away.

There is also so much baggage from growing up and beyond - broken promises (please do not promise someone a gift of several thousand dollars and then reneg on it without warning), long tirade emails and apologies along the lines of “well I was only trying to help you”.

In a nutshell, she thinks her mom feels she is expected to care for her dad but does not (like going away for several days and not telling either daughter, and he cannot eat on his own), and anything the mom does is so no one will impugn her for “being a bad wife”. The mom also does not want to give POA to either daughter, because she thinks they’ll spend “all of her money” (when he was the only one working and she barely did a lick of housework or child care).

And that last thing is why my friend just doesn’t take him to live with her or to live in a home near her where she can help him and the mom is off the hook. “off the hook” = “taking away my money” to mom… :frowning:

And why is this any of my business? My friend has reached out to me, and seems to be near a nervous breakdown. Which would help no one. I cannot provide the physical support she needs over the next few weeks due to my own family issue.

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@rhandco I do think if mother is ‘abandoning’ the father, but retaining all control of the money - one or the other DDs or both together needs to be in charge of dad if dad indeed has dementia and cannot be competent for his own well-being. Mother may be a narcissist or have such self interest. DD wants father to have good quality of life, and he is not having that opportunity w/o family/friends supporting. If she has a good relationship with her sister and they have similar view/goals on the situation, then she should visit and they should get dad properly evaluated. If he has dementia, get POA and rights for his care and access to his money to make sure he gets the right care. Their mother obviously does not care for him or is so enamored with retaining all the marital assets that she doesn’t want to see him through his medical/physical/emotional debilitating times. When my father was dying from cancer, mother did not want hospital bed/etc in their home (she had issues including narcissism and psych/bi-polar) - dad was OK with going to a nursing home (he was only 63; had been a wonderful husband, father, and provider) but the hospital had two hospice rooms, and dad died in the hospital within days. How hurt do you think he was after over 40 years of marriage and being a loving and faithful husband and father? Mom was shocked when he died - she really didn’t want to believe it would happen. It was strange and sad.

If your friend does not have a good working relationship with her sis, it sounds like she will need a lot of emotional support to be any kind of an advocate for her dad. All she can do is what she can, and leave the rest to God.

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I just wanted to take a few minutes to thank everyone on this forum for their wisdom and support and the comfort that I was not alone. My 90 year old mom died last week. In her home. No hospitalization. She could have had a higher quality of life had she stayed in the senior community where I had moved her or in another one. But she did it her way, basically a prisoner in her own home. Meals on Wheels found her; it was the one day in probably a year where I had turned off my phone and forgotten to turn it back on. I found out a number of hours later when DH called another number to tell me her PCP had left a message asking what to write on the death certificate. Oops.

I’ve been worried for years that she would break her hip, have a major stroke, sink into greater dementia, or all three, and that I would have to scramble to get her admitted into an appropriate skilled nursing facility. I am relieved and grateful for the pain she avoided. And that I will no longer have to suffer her abuse. Now is the next step in my journey: To contact any remaining people/networks who might still be living; plan the memorial service; sort through over 45 years of accumulated stuff and do what needs to be done.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, my life savers and keepers of my sanity. Words cannot express my gratitude.

Fondly,
Donna

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My condolences. (((Donna)))

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@CCsiteObsessed , my condolences.

And thanks to you, as well, for sharing your journey. It does help so much to know I’m not the only one.