Thinking of you and your family conmama. You certainly made the right call by not bringing grandchildren.
Somemom- I’ve have been fortunate to have great parents and in-laws. I wish for peace with your family.
Growing up, I loved my grandmother, who was a tough cookie, a self made woman with a variety of talents and interests. Pretty remarkable. And she loved me, probably favored me. And she did sacrifice for my family. But she had always been unafraid to criticize family, even going back decades for ammo, sometimes griping for hours (eg, a car ride could be trouble, we never knew.) I had learned early how to distract her But as she aged, her deepest bitterness could come out, as her guard went down. She could welcome us, have space for us, be interested, cook for us, spend hours with my girls, but no one close to her was safe, when she felt like spouting off. It wasn’t just the guilty heartstrings, why wasn’t I there more or why didn’t I solve some other issue or make her perfectly happy, it was also personal attack against any of us, at will, and even an implication she had little reason to be proud of us. I walked on eggshells.
After she died, it took me a good five years to get over what I saw as my anger. I didn’t live with that anger, it just came up sometimes, as we discussed her or some older family memory.
I don’t (and didn’t) have guilt because I know I tried to do what I could, “the right thing.” I never saw some high benchmark of what it means to be a “good” child. I kept to a visiting schedule (she was across the country,) did accompany her to docs, if something was needed, did spend time sitting with her, did call her, did send notes, did chat with her friends, did what I could. I did tell her I loved her. As time passed, I can now focus on the good parts, even if small things.
IMO, we have to recognize we have some control. Imo, that’s a critical aspect of keeping our own balance. The “bad child” thing is from the past, when we were little and needed to be controlled and guided or made responsible for our mistakes. Guilt. We internalize it as kids, but need to let it go, as adults who are truly trying our best- and often juggling many responsibilities.
Imo, we can’t wait until the point at which we declare we despise them. In a way, that’s playing into their[/u ] power over us. Hatred is quite a burden. We can keep visits short, we can say No, we can walk out of a room. We can run some interference from afar. What we cannot do, however, is magically change them. We can’t reason with them, we can’t defend our actions, we can’t expect to say to them, “But she was just here 3 months ago,” and have the light dawn and hear them say, “Oh, my mistake.”
Well-stated, lf. Moderating expectations and untangling the childhood dilemmas can be critical.
Difficult and/or erratic people have relationships of different quality than others. It seems common sense to understand that as inevitable. Yet, often the most caring and responsible among us are trying to single handedly turn the relationship into a consistently functional one or feeling obligated to “stay the course”, however toxic it may be. It is hard to take three steps back when in the thick of it all. This thread is very helpful in gaining needed perspective. Thanks and peace to all.
For some strange reason I was able to say ‘no’ to my mother when my father died 7 years ago. It allowed me to gain control of the situation and defined what I was willing to do.
Sitting here in a quiet moment. Dad is in hospice on morphine 24/7 to help breathing. I got here Friday night while he was still in hospital. Labored breathing, on oxygen but lucid much of the time. I got to say what I needed to say and he loved hearing it, as I’m not the hallmark card type, but I pushed myself to be as much as I could for his sake. Once I said, “you are a wonderful perfect father”…which he has been that in many ways. He said, " as are you daughter".
He really was asking for his grandkids, and they did end up coming without my approval. Oh, I am my fathers daughter…a big control freak. I told my brother how I expected them to act and they did fairly well. But my brother is the drama king, and sometimes I felt it was a show. Once, the kids all crawled in bed with him and mt SIL was filming this. I was livid. I told her later I would prefer she not film my dying father in front of me and dhe apologized. I later did to and she said she would never show it to anyone else ( how morbid), and I told her that my father wouldn’t have liked that if he was aware of it. He hates that sort of thing like me.
Anyway, they kept hanging around and Dad started to get bad and then started coughing up blood. Kids standing around crying. I finally barked to my idiot of a brother " I think it’s time for the kids to leave, is this really the memory you want them to have of their grandfather". So SIL left.
I’m trying to stay calm. Been getting 2 hours unrested sleep, same as Mom. We are staying in his room, all 3 of us. Oh…brother thought his 13 year old would be staying in the room with him and Mom. Uh…I don’t think so bonehead.
Dad is aware of what is happening and wants to go in his sleep, or at least without pain. He is being very brave, telling us everything he wants done as he thinks of it…typical DAd to the end. I’m sure this is his coping mechanism so he can push despair aside.
I can’t remember who brought up difficult parents after I did. My parents can be extremely high maintence, pushy and all the guilt stuff. On the other hand, they have been loving, generous in many ways and a lot of fun. I think I have come to the conclusion it’s okay if I haven’t wanted to be around them many times…not my fault. But I think I will just try to let it all just float away and realize we really did the best we all could.
Of course, remind me I said this after I’ve had my Mom living with me for awhile.
Oh @conmama, the story of my life! (well, more or less) and the best possible idea for a difficult but profound time with your dad. How’s your mom doing?
Conmama, I’m so glad you got here and got some approval from Dad. It may be too soon to know what will happen next, but you are doing what you can.
People do not know how to treat grave illness, dying and death. They have no real experience with it and grasp to know what to do, they make mistakes, say dumb things, and yeah, you want to smack them. Even for any here who deal with dementia, the end phase is new. There can be confusion.
So, take some comfort in the fact your own head is screwed on straight. It’s not easy. Hugs.
Conmama, I have nothing to add except you are doing the best you can.
Hugs to you. All we can do is what we think is best. Glad that you and your father got to express your love and appreciation for each other.
Just following along, thinking of you, wishing you strength and patience.
Conmama I’m going to send you a link, produced by hospice about dying.
It proved very helpful recently, to out family members. Hospice suggested all family members watch it.
Perhaps all hospice agencies offer a similar video, but this hospice nurse, spoke about her personal experiences and it very, very helpful.
@somemom - you asked this: How has it gone for those of you who did not have a good rapport, did not enjoy your parents, or who actually disliked them? Are there feelings of regret and guilt when they go?
I"ve been pondering how to answer for a few days now. I don’t know that I have a real answer for you but I did want you to know that you are not the only DIL dealing with this problem. My husband’s parents are/were difficult. Neither was raised in an easy situation (they were overseas during the WWII and experienced many very awful/difficult things) and neither had ideal parents. So, lots of issues that persisted when they raised their kids. They did the best they could but well, they are difficult and my husband, as an adult finally came to the understanding that while they were his parents and he’d aim to do the right thing, he does not like them. It took him a long time to deal with that thought.
His dad passed away 3 years ago and all these thougths came to the surface. He was able to shed the guilt but I believe that feeling of regret remain - regret that their relationship wasn’t better, he he knows that given the situation, that just wasn’t gong to happen. His father did tell him that he loved him while on his death bed and my husband could not remember hte last time he’d heard that from his father. I think it was somewhat healing.
His mom is still alive (hence my crazy use of present/past tense in this post - sorry about that) and they are not close. Well, I think that she thinks they are closer than they are. And she thinks that the boys all get along, but nothng could be further from the truth. When she dies, he will not be sad.This is a really sad thing to say, but it is the truth. And so we soldier on…
My mother recently asked me if I understood why she stopped visiting my grandmother. Of course I did. She was the primary target, out of all of us. My mother would send her notes and gifts, occasionally phone her. When my GM was at the end, my brother and I handled interface with docs, the apt building folks, some friends, the practical nurse on-site (and later, hospice and the funeral home,) and my mother did step in and handle all the legal and administrative issues, and then some needs from a priest.
She was “running from,” but keeping her distance was the only way. In retrospect, we got a lot of great skills, attitudes, experiences and memories from my GM. But she was one tough lady.
Toward the end, my GM told me she loved my mother, how she regretted certain things. But she never said that to my mother. It fell to me.
@lookingforward, my grandmother was the greatest grandma. Growing up I felt like she was like Mary Poppins and Cinderella’s fairy godmother rolled into one and I know she was the same for my older brother. (My younger brother too but the older two siblings had much more quality time with her.) Now that I’m grown, I can see that she was not so suited to being a mother.
My mother died 15 years before I became a mother, and it’s one of my deepest regrets that my daughter didn’t have her for a grandma. She would have been so great in that role. just like her mother was. My stepmother, not so much. Oh well.
Who was it on this thread that said to write a letter to yourself to open at 80 yr old and tell yourself to tell your kids the bank accounts and give POA? They were right I need to do this. Just went through same thing with FIL (94 yr old massive stroke this month) whom we visited in May and refused to tell us stuff we really needed to know. Thankful he did have the insight to do POA. We are now figuring out the bills, etc.
I haven’t done it yet, but I intend to write a letter to myself which reminds me to not be a burden to my children.
One thing that I did complete recently was a binder with all essential information for our heirs - all of our legal documents; attorney, accountant, and investment advisor contact info, all IRA and investment account information including usernames and passwords, insurance information, funeral wishes, safe deposit box key (and got my daughter’s signature on the box for access), and more. It was a lot of work to put together, but it should only require occasional review and minor updates.
I came across this and it’s a simple “fwiw.” No idea about the site. http://sheerbalance.com/8-toxic-personalities-to-avoid/
Building a Khan Academy for Health Care
Doctors don’t like to talk about death, and they often avoid doing so. Most physicians — including me — never studied palliative care in medical school and were rarely trained in how to communicate with patients. By the time I finished residency in 2002, I had to show competency in running Code Blues, inserting arterial lines and performing lumbar punctures, but not a single senior physician had to certify that I could actually talk with patients.
The recent expansion of the field of palliative medicine, with doctors who are experts on having these discussions, is a giant step in the right direction. But the growth of this specialty has not kept up with the need: There are 4,400 such doctors in the United States today, but the need is estimated to be as high as 18,000 physicians. Incentives such as student loan forgiveness, higher baseline salaries and more robust insurance reimbursements would encourage more students to consider the specialty as a profession. But it would take time for society to reap the benefits.
remainder of article:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/building-a-khan-academy-for-health-care/
I work, in part, with med students and there’s more emphasis on communications, bedside manner. It’s part of the OSCE. But these kids either come in understanding/empathizing or they can struggle to get it. The hospice I vol for has med students coming through, but they need more experience with death and dying. Good palliative care can be a miracle.
Remember when introducing end of life decision making into the Medicare reimbursement system morphed instantly into “death panels”? This is not meant to be political; mention it from a sociological perspective. We all (care providers, patients, consumers and relatives) need to become more conversant in this going forward. Increased specialization has at times contributed to a lack of context for individual medical decisions. It is taking 3 step backs to assess the total picture, with professional input, that can make all the difference. I am trying to help my kids become familiar with this kind of thought process now that they are adults. My mother taught me how valuable it is.
Thanks for sharing the article, oldmom. Agree lf, some who have great medical chops can lack the “people” skills that are needed to optimize outcomes. True in a lot of fields. While procedures can support a better process, quality will always vary.