Right now, it’s a concern of my own, that one child is a more financially responsible sort.
There can be many reasons a business fails. The issue isn’t one’s current position but how responsible, fair and open they are (and will be.) As a basis, you need to wrap your arms around the requirements and the realities, as a whole, and then look at the best decisions for the parts. I believe that, if you are the closer child, overseeing your father’s life, you should be able to have a conversation with the FPOA about his willingness to cover costs- eg, if you decide he needs new shoes or a lift chair, you need extra attendant hours when you go away for a day or two, will the FPOA be willing to pay the bills? If you have MPOA and make an expensive decision, will be back you up and pay?
But the medical POA also needs to be responsible and fair. It can be more than deciding he needs a referral or $300 ortho inserts or can make do with the $30 set from CVS. You need to be able to fairly and ethically- and rationally- decide about larger, more wrenching (and sometimes risky or uncomfortable) medical issues, too.
Rhandco, I would be most concerned about your relationship with your brother and whether you feel he is trustworthy and honest and he feels the same about you. It would not be difficult to keep track of medical expenses, but when your brother is in control, will he reimburse expenses without delay? Does he trust you to give an accurate account of expenses? These are conversations to have before POA is set up.
We have a friend who has said that he has one child who is going to be the financial POA, and another who will have the healthcare proxy. He said that the financial whiz kid is too likely to decide that dad’s NPV is decreasing.
I mean I am helping my dad to get bills paid with his own money.
I don’t think it is productive to bring my brother into it yet, if the only finances of concern are medical bills and my dad will pay them on his own if I guide him to do so.
If at all possible, yes, get both financial and medical POA. Its a lot easier if you can address medical issues and have permission to review bills and pay them. If your hands are tied, or your brother doesnt agree with the decisions you make, it can be a challenge. I too am the youngest, but due to my brother’s relationship with the family, I had all power-- medical and financial POA and was also the executrix of the will /estate and trustee of the trust they set up. Avoided a lot (not all, buyt a lot) of hassles. My bro was stsill a jerk about a lot of things, but I had an attorney to help with some of that and could handle the affairs as my dad wanted, withoput unhelpful or disruptive interference. Also, do not have to require BOTH yopur and your brothers signatures (ie dont be co executors or coPOA) . Thats a bigger hassle.
Actually, that was a problem for my aunt. She was a caregiver for her friend, and she and two other friends of her friend had POA together. So for certain things, all three of them would have to sign. It became ridiculous on occasion.
I know my one other sibling will have a fit about all of this, but he is the most flaky of us all and also has a severely impaired adult child he has guardianship over. I think having guardianship of one person is enough for anyone.
Sounds like a situation where it is especially important to have the legal paperwork match what is actually happening on the ground. Once elders seek assistance, it is likely they will need/want more.
I don’t think you will regret protecting yourself, as well as your father, by getting your ducks in a row in advance of any further complications. Keep good records, and perhaps a notebook just for your own information where activities on his behalf are noted with dates.
Spent a long time in two phone calls about fraudulent charges on my parents credit cards. The fraud department at Citi was awful! Had to fight with them to get them to close an account my patents swore they didn’t open and didn’t have a card for. They finally closed it and said they’d have an investigator look into it. They could tell the anything about any of the charges & mom has list the statements she’s been paying for years!
Also had to call BofA, about a fraud alert. They were MUCH more helpful. They went over recent charges and other than a fraudulent charge on 11/2 which prompted them to call and issue new cards, the others seemed OK.
I was debating whether to open a Citi card–decided definitely won’t!
Himom, what a mess. As to the Citi card, your parent’s have been getting statements for years that they have been paying? Have you looked at the statements? Does it look like their charges? I only ask because my parents can’t remember if they got a pneumonia shot the previous week, much less opened an account 10 years ago.
My father ended up about $20,000 in debt from moving money from one credit card to another, interest-free, and then the interest-free period wore off and the interest was like 25%. My brother helped him shut down all his credit cards, and he only uses debit cards now. If he runs out of money, he has automatic overdraft protection but does not have that much overall for anyone to exploit (including himself by accident or by someone deceiving him).
The only statement they could produce had charges all from far from HI which the fraud folks said were made via Internet. Mom is computer phobic and never touches the computer and dad swears he didn’t make any of those charges.
@himom you just are going to have to hammer at Citi regarding the fraud.
My brother noticed his bank account had some fraudulent cash type withdrawals - his computer had gotten hacked from Russian types. He had to do a lot of paperwork with the bank and they restored his funds. H had brother take all his bank stuff off his unsecured home PC (noticed he had not computer protection when we visited), and brother could do all his electronic banking at work since his company has a dedicated guy making sure their stuff is all secure in and out (and brother was one of the company owners, worked long hours anyway).
If parents don’t use/need the Citi card. Do they have a checking account where they can use a debit card? That would be a safer scenario.
They don’t recall ever getting a Citi card and neither had one in their possession or in mom’s purses.
I suspect any recovery will be limited to the past 90 days of charges, because mom was just obediently, unquestioningly paying all statements without questioning any charges. She can’t find any of the statements she paid.
I think CCs are safer than CCs, because they offer fraud protection.
A debit card with bank/credit union (we patronize credit union) typically is MC or Visa, so same fraud protection.
Once the fraud is discovered - look to see what the fair credit standards says - push for the full thing if the wording by the standards allows. Can claim the parent disability didn’t recognize the fraud.
FIL is starting to channel Amy Winehouse. We tried to make him go to rehab, he said no,no,no.
3 weeks ago he had a stroke, and was fortunate that BIL was already on his way to the house when it happened, so that FIL got to a great stroke center quickly. One week in the hospital, 2 weeks in the acute rehab hospital, then yesterday he was released to home, with the plan that he would be back in rehab 5 days a week. The van picks him up in the morning and takes him home around 4:30 pm.
I’m a long way from sold that he ever should have been released to home, but he talked his way out of having to spend a couple of weeks in a residential skilled care environment by claiming he had plenty of support at home. Then he cancelled the first day of rehab, which should have been today. I’m not sure he can fix a bowl of oatmeal, but he can get to the phone and cancel therapy. Good grief.
We’ll try again tomorrow. I’ll be back over to make sure he gets on the bus.
My role is to be the mean rehab DIL who makes him demonstrate that he can do things. BIL was over this morning and took care of FILs every need. Which is nice, but it doesn’t tell us what he can do for himself and what he really needs to work on. I did get the new assortment of meds in the pill caddie. We were never sure whether he was taking them all, or how often, so now we can check on that.
Momofjandl- I am with you. Clever man!
Check Medicare rules for how many days he can be out of rehab before he forfeits coverage to return to it for this incident. Think there is a window, but not sure what it is. Don’t want him to run down the clock to his own detriment.
At the same time, there is only so much you can do.
Ugh momofjandl…don’t these workers verify with family on how much support there is at home? I know we made it our business to let the hospital staff know my mom’s situation. However, no one can make them go or stay in rehab.
Apparently my mom really showed her rear end at the doctors today. He called sis to talk about her adjustment issues and praise the lord…her depression. Mom finally let her guard down and complained so much he told my sister she really needs an anti depressant. We’re going to attempt seeing if they’ll tell her it’s to help with her pain and to help relax her.
It’s been an intense few weeks with DH’s family. MIL broke her hip in late Oct, no surgery as she was non ambulatory. A few days later FIL brought her to the ED as he could not care for her at some. Long long long story short, she had her hip pinned for pain control and went to rehab.
Rehab gave us the “you’re done with Medicare” notice one week after she arrived, failure to progress. I managed to get it bumped one more week, and we will know more in a few days but I anticipate her not getting rehab for long. She had a serious stroke many years ago and does not have much capacity for rehab even though she is now worse than before the break- they don’t necessarily expect her to get back to where she was.
That was incredibly stressful and depressing to all involved.
In the meantime we have talked FIL into moving into the Independent Living wing of the home where MIL will become a SNF resident.
FIL fought it the entire way and he has been such a brat, may days we go to visit each person for 15-30 minutes and he is so querulous that we spend 2-3 hours working on his issues. She is adjusting better than he is.
In less than a week it was decided he will have to move to AL, he keeps walking to the SNF to visit MIL and getting stuck, too weak to walk back. AL is much closer to her than IL.
He does not believe rules apply to him and he gets in trouble, like using his walker in the buffet line- apparently this is a big deal at the place.
The entire few weeks have been exhausting, but even though FIL is demanding, it is 100% better with him out of the house, he made everyone angry and miserable.
The day he was moving in, he did so many delaying tactics, it made us crazy.
We kids have done so much work, between getting them in, getting repairs and renos done or arranged on the house, and doing the estate stale, it is crazy how head to toe exhausted we all are!
I cannot even tell you all of the dozens of assorted ups and downs.
The move to AL will happen soon and hopefully after that he will get real about the car. We still have the car, but we cannot sell it without him agreeing. He still thinks he can drive, even though he cannot put on his pants and shoes, even though a walk to the dining hall exhausts him.
