@somemom NO and NO. but every family / Dr. combination has to make that choice. My mom was on coumadin way way too long, IMHO. and it was an indicator that she had dementia since the Dr had her come to the office 2 or 3 times a week to get her blood tested and adjust her doses, which she then didn’t take correctly anyway. He should have noticed ! It has been 3 years since she is off of it. Maybe she has had mini strokes, but I don’t think the blood thinner mattered.
And no to any anesthesia, it seems as if it is REALLY hard for older people to come out of it. and some mentally don’t come all the way back.
I just have to ask what is the POINT? Not that someone 95 doesn't deserve care and to live as long and as happy a life going forward, but those 2 things IMHO (and I am not a DR!) do NOTHING to make the long HAPPY life continue.
We recently had an experience with invasive testing for a very elderly relative. He was of sound mind and he wanted the test done. He said he wasn’t yet ready to die and was hoping for a better prognosis. Afterwards, when the results confirmed the initial diagnosis, he realized that surgery would mean a long and difficult recovery assuming he survived it. It took him about a week to come to terms with the expectation that his remaining time was likely less than six months. Fortunately, his doctor advised palliative care and not surgery. Hospice care in the home was started and while he appreciated the pain relief he was not happy about how much he slept. Before he died, about three months after the tests, he told his family that he was ready. We felt very fortunate, considering how different his final days were compared to other relatives.
My heart goes out to anyone going through this ordeal. Dh and I have had a lot of talks lately about our end of life wishes. We’ve agreed on no invasive testing, no more surgery and plenty of pain meds. Our concern will be whether our children will respect our wishes if we can’t speak for ourselves.
@somemom , FIL did not take blood thinners because of his falls. We don’t know whether that shortened his life or whether he had more mini-strokes, but it just was clear it wasn’t a good treatment plan. Ending a treatment plan that’s already been in place for a while is harder, good luck to your DH and family figuring this out. There is no easy button.
The family has taken all the “stuff” from FIL’s house that they want, and there is still enough there to fill a few trucks. The estate sale guy said that we’d lose money hiring a company to do a sale because there is so much sorting and cleaning to do. That’s ok in that no one was expecting to make money off the home contents, but it puts the work (even if that work is hiring a trash hauler) back on us. The furnishings and decor are mostly low end, with a few Ethan Allen pieces that were expensive at the time but no one wants any more. The main things to find homes for are the tools - hand tools, power tools, garden tools. Guess we’ll have to clean out more clutter and have a picker’s sale and see what people want to offer. It gives me a headache thinking about it, so I’ll go to another committee meeting for now, then contemplate the rest over a glass of wine with DH this evening.
DS was in town for the memorial service this weekend. He and DD are young adults with not much living space and a lot of moves in front of them, so they don’t want much from the house. But spending one more afternoon in the basement workshop, surrounded by his grandpa’s tools and clutter, gave DS more sense of closure than the church service ever could have.
FIL was pretty intense this morning, I guess the transfusion helped, as he was feisty. I think the guideline at 95+ should be affording him the best every day life he can have. He is not ready to die. He had pneumonia a month or so ago and, having told the doctor he was ready to die, immediately wanted treatment as he was “not ready yet, not now, not like that.” I think he is terrified of dying and he is furious at the loss of control.
The hospital called because the tech giving a test wanted to know if he gets confused as he was angry and uncooperative at not knowing about the test, for which he signed the consent! His short term memory is a mess and he forgets that he forgets and then gets angry that people are doing things behind his back.
After the cardiac testing was good, I called in and told them to discharge him immediately, either by the doctor’s ok or AMA, I also told the nurse I thought it would make her day better if he was not there. She agreed and we got hugs as we left from the staff.
I say no Eliquis and no invasive tests unless they can tell me what would be learned from it and we can decide how we would treat that. If we would not choose the treatment, then no sense doing the test.
One of the items on the neurologist’s lists of things to consider for the future is when to discontinue medications. The current guidelines for BP are such that many, many elders are on Meds that may extend life but not necessarily have the quality to enjoy. We stopped all vitamins. BP Meds will be discussed if her current dementia Meds stop working.
My mother was dx with type 2 diabetes several years after she’d had cancer. She was average weight, not a drinker, liked a dessert every so often. The past 18 years went from ok, easy to deal with, to a complete nightmare. The Meds would make her sick. She got so tired of the diet and the finger pricks. Her PCP kept telling her to lose weight (145 lbs on a 5’6" sturdy frame). When she was in hospital and then rehab, they gave her insulin injections. At one point last year I joked that maybe eating what she wanted and going into a diabetic coma wasn’t such a bad thing. After her last stay in rehab, she was down to 125. Since she’s been in the Adult Family Home, her blood sugar is stable, she stopped metformin, eats pretty much what she wants. The neurologist said it wasn’t worth it. We know the signs and they deal with high BS as/when it happens. She’s happy, we are happy.
@somemom , your last sentence is what I was trying to say, and should be a question asked before they ask about some horrible test!
@MomofJandL , give a little bit of thought to charity sales. When we were going through Mom’s house, we found out that some charity … name is escaping me tonight, but like women’s auxillary… anyway, both they and the local hospice would come in and price stuff and rung the garage/estate sale for a 60/40 split (60 for them, but they did the work). We wound up not going with them, but got a professional estate sales person who took 35%, but also had a better eye for the hidden gems which needed to go to auction or private sales. One item I would have sold for $2.50 was sold for over $5000… made her fee right there.
ANNNNNYWAY, sorry, enough about me. I was just trying to say if you don’t want to/ don’t have time/ don’t care about what is left, is to give the charity in your area the go ahead to price and sell and send you a check. They also do a good accounting for stuff taken directly to other charities for the donation. Mom got a LOT of donation credits, too.
@esobay, thanks. I haven’t found any charity sale organizations yet, but will keep looking. Our church rummage sale can take some of the stuff, but a massive purging is needed before we can think of selling anything. I filled the trash and recycling roller bins this morning, and will do so again tomorrow afternoon after the morning pick-up, but it’s like draining a lake with an eyedropper. The recycling center will pay 10 cents/pound for non-fiction books, so I packed up 4 boxes of those. That should about cover the gas to drive there.
We’re not dealing with certified antiques, Lladros, rare coins, or designer handbags here. Mostly boxes labeled “light fixture from 1/2 bath” or “jelly jars.” Not Ball jars, just old Smucker’s. Some Pfaltzgraff. Gas station giveaway glasses. Comedy and jazz LPs. Office supplies.
Plus the stuff that SIL and her daughter and nephew brought over from their houses to add to the sale. Old exercise equipment and baby toys.
SIL is in a huge hurry to get the house on the market, so she may take the lead on getting a dumpster for the trash and setting up a sale for the rest. Honestly, I’d be ok with 1-800-GOT-JUNK, but will be a good sport and help if she wants to make it happen. Either way, it looks like a question of how much it will cost to empty the house, not how much we’ll get for the contents. They left money in the bank, instead of spending that money on expensive stuff for us to sell at pennies on the dollar. We all wish they had spent more on themselves, but having money meant more to them than having stuff or experiences, so they made their choices.
@MomofJandL - if you are looking to simply empty the house quickly, may I suggest holding a yard sale of sorts. It would be a FREE sale. Advertise it in the local paper and note that everything is free and also put up a few signs up in the neighborhood and I suspect that the house will be much,much emptier by the end of the day. It would be a win/win for everyone.
I shudder at the work awaiting us when my parents and mother in law pass away and we need to empty their homes. My parents have done a fair amount of pairing down, but my MIL lives in a very large and very filled home and has resisted even throwing away anything.
Before you do that (have a sale), be SURE you remove and/or clearly mark anything you don’t want taken, as people can get carried away and may even try to remove fixtures or other things that you do NOT want removed. You also need to make it very clear which items ARE available and which are NOT (if any). Even with things clearly marked, you have to be careful–my relative hosted a yard sale for their kids’ baseball team–someone stole his brand new pressure washer that was over $400! He was very annoyed and never hosted another “sale.” There were people on duty throughout the sale but it was still stolen when no one noticed!
When we ran the in laws sale, there was a guy who came in at the end to pick up all the leftovers, for better or worse. But he told me that if he had to take the (expensive) couches, he could pay nothing as he would have to pay to dump them. if I would keep the couches, he would pay me $200 and take it all. I accepted that deal and sold the couches, $50 each on craigslist.
Got an email Thursday from BIL’s wife - the dumpster would be delivered Saturday, let’s meet and clean out the house on Saturday. She called to confirm Friday. Me: “So we are definitely not having an estate sale?” Her: “BIL still wants to have one, he’s going to try to find another person to call.”
So I went to an estate sale listed at estatesales dot net, and got a card from a guy, and called BIL and suggested that if he wanted to have a sale, call this guy. Which he did, and we are now having a sale. So we put trash from behind the shed in the yard in the dumpster, but didn’t otherwise clear out junk from the house, because the first thing that estate sale people tell you is don’t throw anything out, we’ll decide what is junk and what we can sell.
And BIL’s wife wants to patch nail holes and paint, but the house is too crowded. Both with stuff left over from MIL/FIL, and with stuff BIL’s family has brought over to sell since we’re having a sale. Me: “The estate sale team might want to leave those nails and hooks on the wall so they can display the pictures that are for sale. When were you planning to paint?” Answer: Glare.
The estate sale is set for a couple of weeks from now. The house will be completely empty 6 weeks to the day after FIL’s death. Or, in the words of my BIL to my DH, “This has gone on far too long, it’s time to get it finished.” Oh, but there are still pieces of furniture in the house that BIL’s kids want, and they are not marked to keep the estate sale team from sorting or pitching them, but, you know, just kind of remember those have been promised. AAARRRGGHHHHHH! And some of the things in the closed-off family-only room of personal items are things the cousins will kill us if we throw out, but the magic heirloom fairy will deal with it all, I guess.
I don’t think DH and BIL’s wife will ever speak again. He really wanted the week after FIL’s death to mourn and grieve and look over pictures, and she wanted that week to empty the house so it could be put on the market. The frenzy that ensued has probably broken any hope of future relationship. I’ll be glad when this is over. But today I’ll plant flowers in front of the house because, you know, curb appeal. The realtor’s sign is already up. Nothing like purple petunias to complement the dumpster in the driveway.
That is so hard- at least it sounds like there is a plan of sorts. I’m sure you’re looking forward to having this house/contents task behind you. I’m sorry your H wasn’t given the time he needed to grieve. A similar thing happened when my dad died- a future-in-law was adamant that the car ties/credit card names needed to be fixed the next business day. I basically said back off and it did cause a rift for a while. After a death is such a sensitive time- other than the funeral arrangements, and ordering death certificates, most things can wait a bit.
@lookingforward, no one in this family has ever “all agreed” on anything. Someone does something and then everyone else eventually finds out. Or doesn’t. But BIL is the executor. The dumpster stays until he makes arrangements to have it removed, whenever that is. Not my call. If it were my call getting the estate accounts set up before the income taxes were due would have had a higher priority than replacing the ceiling lights and mopping the basement. But that’s just me.
I agree I would not have put the house on the market before getting it cleared out and fixed up. However if the market area is ‘hot’. I know a place that was cleared out with estate type sale, ‘for sale’ sign up very close after, and immediately sold. It was in a visible area (lots of drive by) and also excellent school district and a smallish house (affordable for many in this higher priced area).
Good luck @MomofJandL with getting through this whole process as painlessly as possible.
It’s not even just death, we recently moved DH’s parents from their home of 50 years. DH grew up in that house, he really felt short changed on time to just soak in the process. Step sibling, who never lived there, was moving full steam ahead, which really was the right thing in that case.
However, we did the estate sale first, then minor renovations and all that was done before any realtors got involved. I don’t see the point in getting realtors looking before they can even see the house.
In hindsight, it all happened too fast, but that’s how it had to be. There was some really “valuable” stuff that did not sell in the estate sale, it went to the guy who picks up the house load of leftovers for $200. I totally should have taken some of those items out of the boxes and kept them, but the house was full of guys moving stuff out and it just did not happen. Nothing is worth much, especially anything a parent or in law thinks is valuable!
As to what any one wants, I say unless you have a truly valuable antique, let anyone take nearly anything they feel strongly about, you were getting low dollar anyway and if it makes them happy, let them have it. But tell them all, if they don’t get it before the estate sale, you cannot guarantee it will not be sold, even if you put stickers on it, the buyers will take them off and buy it anyway! We even had a few items that had old stickers on them “save for SIL” “save for granddaughter” and the estate guys priced them without asking. Anyone who wants anything leaves it there at their own risk. How will anyone account for the sales money from the items that belong to your BIL & SIL?
My parents had 50 years of stuff. S and B wanted an estate sale, but by the time we took out what we all wanted/had been “given” (including grandchildren and inlaws), estate sale person said there wasn’t enough of value left for them to do a sale. So I had Goodwill come and take anything they wanted–they use this as a training exercise for halfway-house potential employees and then sell or donate; they filled up a large truck with furniture, tools, linens. Then I called a local moving company and hired them to empty the house into a dumpster. 2800 square feet, took 2 guys 3 hours.
Now the house is for sale, but it’s lakefront and the market is not strong. Realtor said just clean and no updating, because whoever buys it will totally redo or tear down and rebuild.
First time posting on this thread, although I’ve found it really interesting and useful to read. My parents had been snowbirds until now, but just sold their FL condo and from now on will winter in NY. They haven’t experienced winter for about 20 years! But my dad, age 89, has Parkinson’s and has recently turned a corner and his situation has deteriorated, and my mother, his caregiver, feels that she can’t deal with 2 moves each year anymore on top of the care my dad now needs. It feels like the end of an era!
Anyhow, I am on the west coast, although my sister lives about 5 miles away from our parents. I am very sensitive to the fact that all of their lives are about to undergo a significant change, not least of which is my sister, who will have to be continually involved now. So, I plan to make extended visits whenever I can, especially during the winter, the idea being if they are homebound for weeks on end they can use some company, some respite, and someone who can drive on snowy, icy roads. I knew this day would come, and have worked out with my H that I be free to travel to them whenever I need to (we are empty nesters as of this year), but after all these years the incredible downsides of living on a different coast from the rest of my family have become abundantly clear!
Got 2 texts from BIL’s wife today, neither of which mentioned that her nephew would be over at the house painting the living room and hall today. But then I didn’t mention I was headed over to plant petunias, so we’re both not communicating.
BIL will figure out the money from the estate sale any way he wants, and no one will argue with him. Those of you who have been executors know he has piles of work to do. It’s a shame, because he hates it and I would be more than happy to do it all. But it’s not my job, it’s his, and he hasn’t asked. So he can put whatever numbers he wants and DH and I won’t say a word. I’m just beyond delighted I don’t have to arrange and price and sell and haul off all the piles of stuff. Don’t know what he’s paying the nephew to paint and do minor repairs, either. Don’t care. Every task he does is one that DH won’t be asked to do, so more happy all around.
Also, there is a large orange tabby napping in a sunbeam in my family room. Anybody that could gaze on that sight and not chill is just not normal.
B1ggreenca, don’t forget the part about seeing if you can hire some help. Even a few hours can be someone to chat with them or help in some way. A lot here had trouble getting their parents to accept this but it’s good to try.
