Parents caring for the parent support thread (Part 1)

Parent Cafe
8521

RVM - Just a cautionary tale that your mother may not change, even after your father is gone. Your father and my father sound very similar. Mine always told my mother she was stupid, that the things she talked about were unimportant, etc. My parents were only married for 29 years when my father died in 1979. Even after his death, she had no confidence in her own decision-making, and would say that my father would come back to get her if she did something he wouldn’t like. She was so conditioned to his treatment of her that he didn’t need to be there anymore for her still to feel and respond the same way.

I know this doesn’t help you cope with the situation now. Disengagement, even if only temporarily, sounds like a good strategy.

8522

So hard to hear these exchanges, particularly as people grow more vulnerable. Longstanding patterns may or may not be working for couples. They may just be.

Unlikely we can directly impact their conversations, but we can look to reduce the worst of it by changing the context while normalizing seeking help or making adjustments to the environment that are constructive and realistic. Sometimes building in the safety valves that reduce stress and include having extra sets of eyes on things can make a big difference. Eldercare communities may allow for parents to live in same facility, yet each receive the care they need specific to them (i.e. one in memory care, the other in independent or assisted living). If they are already in the best situation possible, then structuring days for breaks between them may help, yet be tough to implement. Considering how much is required to be the adult child of frail elders, what partners face in caring for each other while facing some inevitable losses, including their own capacity to manage it all, must also be daunting to many.

Very taxing all around. Sorry for this upset, @rockvillemom. How do you “unhear” all that? Hope a break helps.

8523

I was confused as to why I was tagged in a thread I’ve never been in. I see HImom was probably trying to tag RVM.

But while I’m here, I’m so sorry, RVM and RMH, that you have to go through that :frowning:

8524

@oldmom4896 - yes this - exactly.

I do think he cares for her. He just has no ability to tolerate the tiniest frustration. He NEVER apologizes. Think Trump without the hair - narcissistic, thin-skinned, lashes out. Luckily he does not tweet, lol.

@shellfell - I am sure you are right. It’s not like he is going to pass away and she is going to become a strong independent person. I live 20 minutes away. I’m sure I will be very involved with her care for the rest of her life.

8525

@rockvillemom, my sympathy and empathy! With my dad, because he was sad and stressed from my stepmother’s decline, the blowup episodes increased. It took until my stepmother was pretty down the road of dementia that I could suggest that he treat her like a young child who couldn’t help herself and it wasn’t worth the trouble of explaining things or correcting her. Once he saw how well that worked, it decreased his stress levels quite a bit, ergo fewer blowups.

Best of luck, and remember that we’re always here for you.

8526

My dad has always been impatient with all things, my mom included. My mom still defers to dad for all things. It’s almost as if her memory issues are in sympathy to him. It drives me crazy now as it always has. I want her to be a strong and independent person and I just have to accept who she is. But, when dad is rude to her, I call him on it and tell him he can’t treat other people that way while I am around. He actually stops.

Ha, ha, welcome to the thread @romanigypsyeyes You are fortunate you don’t need to be here.

8527

@rockvillemom, … what oldmom said.

The temper is partly why my Mom is in AL and not with any relative. Even today, the aides think she is the SWEETEST little old lady and when I am there she starts with the “I am the boss” stuff. Professionals are SO much better at this.

And on the topic of dementia, my uncle passed away today. He has had pretty bad dementia for several years. My Aunt died more unexpectedly earlier this year. They were both cared for by my cousin, who had a terrible hard life with an evil deranged husband and daughter. Son finally fell into bad company and is in jail now. She (cousin) just never got a single break. She, daughter and grandson have lived in the house she grew up in… which has a reverse mortgage. She could never send her dad to any sort of nursing home because they would all be homeless. Now what will she do? Whenever I feel the SLIGHTEST bit sorry for myself, which I really don’t, I can’t complain because of all she did.

dementia sucks. So do angry people.

8528

My father-in-law (now ex) has always been kind of mean. There have been many times during my mother-in-law’s long descent into Alzheimer’s disease when he has said things like, “She’s just doing that [insert dementia-related behavior] to annoy me.” My ex-h would sometimes call out his dad on these statements but apparently to little effect. Such statements and feelings aren’t uncommon in people who are caregivers to family members with Alzheimer’s disease but nevertheless they were very difficult for my ex-h to hear. So self-centered of f-i-l; everything is always about him.

8529

Well, at least I am not alone! Thank you for your support. This whole situation weighs heavily on me as
I have no sibling support. One sister - lives in the midwest - very uninvolved. She has made her position clear - not her problem. My DH is helpful when I ask him to help me do something for my parents - take them somewhere or fix something, but the situation does not impact him emotionally - he just rolls with it.

Strategy for tonight - not answering the phone if they call. I can skip an installment of their problems/issues/disagreements.

8530

“Professionals are SO much better at this.”.
Bless 'em. One of mine seems to have endless patience with the elderly, disabled, etc. I don’t know if I’ll reap benefits from this someday.

Just saying: sometimes, the person being dissed or berated is codependent. (Is that just a pop term?). Something in the uneven relationship, even at the height of troubles, works for that one. It can take a lot of awareness to overcome, draw a line. I don’t think elderly is a time when they can. Or that they’d necessarily know what to do if the contention lessened.

8531

@GTalum yes, I thank my lucky stars for that.

I was my dad’s caregiver during high school after an accident left him unable to do quite a bit. He had a wicked temper until we got him into therapy (temper was not there before the accident). He’s mellowed back to pre-accident temperament.

Being essentially an only child makes me nervous for what the future holds, but at least my parents are pretty good sports and have always (except the post-accident period) had a great relationship with each other and with me.

8532

@rockvillemom, therapy. Good therapy saved my life during the last year and a half of my dad’s life.

Sweet dreams tonight. You’ve earned them!

8533

The Decline of Tube Feeding for Dementia Patients
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/health/tube-feeding-dementia-patients.html

8534

Another feeding situation. A 90+ yo with moderate dementia is a very picky eater. He can feed himself but almost never finishes a plate, and fights the aide or relative if they try to feed him, so every meal is a tortuous litany of “one more bite, just one more”. There are foods he likes, mostly sweets, with low nutritional value.
Would just setting the food out for him a better strategy than imploring him to eat every mealtime?

8535

@Twicer My father had Parkinson’s and dementia for about two decades before his death at age 77. My mother spent a lot of time and energy trying to get him to eat healthily for about the first 16 years. As he declined, she stopped worrying about healthy eating and more about his happiness (inasmuch as we could determine that). We knew he was not going to live forever, so why not let him be and eat what he wants if it would give him some pleasure? We did not worry about whether eating chocolate and ice cream for some meals would hasten his demise given that he had 24 hour caregivers by that point and could not take care of himself at all. By the end, he could barely sip a few sips of a protein shake.

We are now starting down a similar path (minus the Parkinson’s, but adding heart, lung, and kidney disease) with my father-in-law. All of his kids are on the same page: let him eat what he wants.

8536

@1518mom two decades!
Were there any issues getting him to take medications?

8537

@Twicer 20/20 hindsight actually suggests it was longer than that…we just didn’t know it. Yes, meds were a problem, but I don’t know for how long since I don’t live in the same city. After a certain point, meds were stopped because they no longer added to his quality of life. He was treated for things that caused him pain, e.g., bedsores.

When you get to the point of being able to answer “what difference does it make?” with “none,” you know it’s time to do nothing and let nature take over.

8538

A 90-year-old with moderate dementia? I wouldn’t worry about “low nutritional value.” If the person will eat it, and it’s not a choking hazard, then they should have it. Like 1518mom, I think that a person near the end of their life should get pleasure where they can.

8539

@“Cardinal Fang” it’s not like he is being forcibly fed broccoli several times daily. He will agree to eat steak or chicken soup, but not finish even a small portion. Ice cream is the only food he will reliably finish, so should it be his primary food?

8540

My dad is near 90, doesn’t have dementia or memory issues according to his neurologist, and wants to do the right thing in terms of eating and staying healthy.

EVEN with someone who you can speak to rationally most of the time, it is very hard to convince him certain things like:

  • you have to eat carbs in every meal!
  • you have to stop taking supplements that give you energy as they make you lose weight!
  • you have to stop trying to be low fat!

I have a lot of siblings but only one who helps me with him. That one makes my dad various meals in one serving portions and also helps clean out his fridge. I take my dad to the doctor and dentist visits. The other ones are all “too busy” or “have their own lives” - yet my brother who helps has a significantly autistic son and I have one in college and a bunch more going in the next eight years.

What I’m saying I guess is that even in the “best” of circumstances, you still get “well, I just had a salad” - NO MEAT? NO BREAD? and “I just had some juice for breakfast”.

When I was really sick, I liked to eat appetizers. They were those little quiche lorraines, the hot dogs in a blanket, potato puffs, I think most people get what I mean. They were terrible in terms of nutrition, but I really couldn’t tolerate eating a regular meal. I’d eat a few of this, a few of that. I think that at some point, get someone what they want to eat, and try to come up with suggestions that will cover a few bases. The quiche lorraines have cheese, eggs, bacon, and pastry in them. The potato puffs were 100% carbs with some fat. So I tried, even when very ill, to stick with things that were yummy to me, but were more balanced.

Fact is, my mom died of starvation after cancer treatment didn’t work and she didn’t want a port or tube feeding. I watched that happen. I remember making her roast beef, right around the time she was stopping eating. It was all I could do to not eat the roast beef, mashed potatoes, corn, gravy, and applesauce. She was not interested. She didn’t even want to eat snack foods or candy.

Give him his Ding Dongs and Kit Kat bars if he wants them. Maybe sneak in a few Fiber Bars or something else that seems like a bad choice but isn’t.

If he doesn’t finish his plate, make him more and see if he’ll be fooled, knowing you still have to throw a bunch out. How about casseroles?

If he is still talking to you, sit with him and make a list of everything he would want to eat. Maybe he wants macaroni and cheese every day. Then maybe you can slip some shredded carrots into it. Bran muffin? A bran muffin with chocolate chips? The only suggestion I’d have is to convince him that he can eat what he wants BUT he should drink water afterwards so his teeth don’t rot (if he has any left). I know that’s hard if he is in an assisted living place, but maybe some creative ways can make their jobs easier - if they don’t have to sit and feed him for an hour, they’ll be happier too.