I’m a bit concerned the parental behavior described by OP is being solely associated with immigrants/first gen families when there are multi-generationed Americans…including some from upper/upper-middle class homes who do the same.
Couple of examples I knew of/personally knew firsthand:
One example was an engineering colleague of a former supervisor turned friend whose upper-class WASP father threatened to disown and banish him if he failed to gain admission or refused to attend Princeton in keeping with a multi-generational tradition back in the late '60s.
Another example was a Vietnam Vet/retired Marine NCO who was extremely obsessed about focusing his son’s entire lifestyle* on preparing to gain admission to and attend Federal Service Academies…preferably Annapolis. This father was openly disappointed and yes, even angry with his son when he failed to gain admission to any of the FSAs despite the fact he earned a full AROTC scholarship to a local private college for all 4 years. Anger was not only the fact he wasn’t attending an FSA…but also he was going into the Army rather than the Marines…
That son was my elementary school classmate and last I heard, he hasn’t talked with his father for several years after HS graduation…even after he graduated college and was commissioned into the US Army.
I.e. Mandating he kept his room in a rigidly organized manner as young as 8 years old similar to how some friends and a relative who attended an FSA described a SAMI inspection, disciplining him publicly like a recalcitrant Marine recruit when he was notified of misbehavior in school by forcing him to do pushups in a public park in front of everyone in the old neighborhood. Even the son's uncle who was also a 20 year retired Marine NCO, my father who was a conscripted junior commissioned officer in the ROC(Taiwan), and several older men who were veterans felt this father was being excessive and tried getting him to let up to no avail.
It is not “solely” associated with them. It just so happens the OP describes himself as being from an immigrant family and describes his parents as having that set of beliefs.
And if other non-immigrant, “upper middle class WASPs” have that same attitude, so what? They are equally wrong and out of line. Bad behavior is bad behavior whether your ancestors came over on the Mayflower or whether you came over six months ago.
I don’t think that’s what people are saying at all. I think they said the situation wasn’t unheard of on CC, so they had reason to believe OPs version of events. Nobody said only immigrant families behave this way or that it only happens among low income families. I mentioned boyfriends in a previous post but this behavior could be exhibited by anyone of any income level, and it doesn’t have occur as a result a disagreement over college either. But none of that is relevant to OP’s situation, so we didn’t address it.
“called out”? How? I know some of you utterly despise the “new immigrants” who choose to believe Ivies are the best colleges, but have you ever said to your kid “You should’ve put in a few more hours into the practice. You could’ve made the volleyball varsity you always wanted”? Parents are humans and can be misguided and can be hurtful, but should the same type of behavior be judged so much more harshly just because the perpetrators happen to hold a set of values you strongly disagree?
Back to address OP’s issue, should adults here encourage them to constructively improve their relationship with parents or “stand up to” them? Neither would be necessarily wrong, but I think a key question to ask here is whether kids and parents share the same goals. If they do, then it’s only to OP’s benefit to try harder to communicate and work with parents instead of furthering the confrontation. It would do no one any good.
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know some of you utterly despise the “new immigrants” who choose to believe Ivies are the best colleges, but have you ever said to your kid "You should’ve put in a few more hours into the practice.
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“Utterly despise”. Lol
Anyway…telling a child that they should have “studied more” or “practiced more” when the child didn’t do well is different from saying such things when the child did very well, but came up short (in the parents’ minds).
Back to the “utterly despise”. I don’t think people here are haters, but I think some of us wish that some leader in their communities would explain how harmful this Ivy Obsession is.
The same parents who are berating their kids for “coming up short,” likely would not have gotten into these same schools themselves if instead, they had been the applicants.
There seems to be a blurring of boundaries that doesn’t respect that these children are not property or extensions of themselves.
We don’t despise, much less utterly. And a kid does have some control over study habits and choices. Not whether the coveted Ivies actually admit him. That’s CC 101.
Ick. Reminds me of how my parents always tell me that my perception of the situation is always wrong and their perception is all that matters. The OP comes across as very reasonable and just wants to make things work with his parents. In fact, his devotion to them actually seems unhealthy in this situation. Telling him that he’s overreacting is not helpful, either.
@panpacific, I have several dear friends who immigrated to this country as adults. They aren’t “new immigrants,” they’re Americans. And they can have whatever customs they want, but if they refuse to speak to their kids I’ll think the same of them as I do every other parent (American or otherwise) who behaves that way.
What makes you think “a few more hours of practice” is all that stands between a child and success (whether it be in sports or academics)? You remind me of another poster who likes to insist anyone can get all A’s if they study hard enough. My dyslexic daughter studies harder than anyone I know. Is she a failure in your eyes if she doesn’t get all A’s? I went to
school with a boy who desperately wanted to be on the varsity basketball team. He practiced for hours all year long. He could’ve practiced 'til the cows came home and it wouldn’t matter. He couldn’t sink a basket to save his life. What he could do was run. He was tall, and he was fast. One of our coaches suggested he try out for the track team, and he turned out to be a great runner. He was on a team, which is what he wanted. There’s a lot to be said for accepting children as they are and encouraging them to look past disappointments to take advantage of the opportunities they’ve been given.
“I know some of you utterly despise the “new immigrants” who choose to believe Ivies are the best colleges,”
Because they’re WRONG. That’s why. Because they stubbornly resist opening their minds to reality. If someone says “NYC is the capital of NY state” or “LA is the capital of California” it doesn’t matter how strongly they “choose to believe” those things - they are still completely wrong. The Ivies AREN’T the 8 best colleges - they are 8 of the best - and we are fortunate in this country that we have a lot of great colleges. Moreover, in this country, people from any college can be successful and having an Ivy degree does not remotely guarantee a golden ticket for life. These are facts, panpacific.
"but have you ever said to your kid “You should’ve put in a few more hours into the practice. You could’ve made the volleyball varsity you always wanted”? "
Why would I be deliberately hurtful like that to my children? Encouraging hard work and discipline upfront is a completely different thing from saying “see, you could have / should have done more.” Are you under the impression that the OP simply didn’t work hard enough to get into the Ivies he applied to, so his parents have a “right” to be disappointed?
OK, folks. At least OP got some different opinions and suggestions. Hopefully they will be able to come up with a balanced action plan to address the problem they are facing.
I have never, and would never, say something like that to my child, or frankly, anyone else. Even if the comment is accurate, I don't find "woulda/coulda/shoulda" criticism helpful at all. I think people - even teens - know when they didn't give it their all. They then change their behavior - or not. It's up to them.
But, sometimes, not giving it one’s all just means that maybe it wasn’t meant to be anyway, and maybe it’s a blessing in disguise that there was a different result.
And maybe there were good reasons for not doing what it took to get to be “the best”…
And sometimes, people give it their all and it still does not work out as intended - so how does saying “You should’ve…” help, except to make that person feel worse for no good reason?
Besides, like I said before, getting into UMich is not exactly akin to slumming it.
OP’s parents could have paid lots of money for the Ivies, too… But OP did not get into the Ivies. And it sounds like OP is looking, and moving, forward with what’s been dealt… His parents need to do the same. Shaming and nagging and silent treatments won’t change what’s already happened. Parents need to wrap their head around what’s actually happening now - their child is at UMich, a very good and well-respected university, and is being responsible about moving forward with realistic goals.
The parents should be proud and beaming. But yes, I guess it is a matter of perspective.
Agree with the overall point. However, some parents/people have a strong results-oriented mentality to the point if one didn’t reach a given desired goal/result, that’s sufficient proof the individual concerned “didn’t work hard enough”.
@Fatsquirrel I’m not out of my lane. Lol you basically confirmed what I said. That’s all the more reason to not go to a college if you didn’t get into the school you want. If there’s a 70% chance you won’t get to transfer into the school you want, then you’re gonna end up with a degree you don’t want.
Just because a lot of people go to Michigan with the hopes of transferring into Ross doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, as the overwhelming amount of people don’t get in according to you. That’s like what happens a lot with Syracuse. People will apply and get rejected by Newhouse, but will choose to go to the College of Arts and Sciences with the hope of transferring in, all to get the disappointment of not being able to transfer.
I had a guidance counselor tell me to apply to the iSchool or CAS at Syracuse because it’s too hard to get into Newhouse. Of course, I applied to Newhouse and got in. But if I were to go to apply to the CAS or iSchool just as a way to get my foot in the door at Syracuse, similar to Ross, odds are, I would be very disappointed when I try to transfer. Newhouse only accepts 30 students for transfer and most students end up unhappy.
If you don’t get in the school you want and you know it’s a competitive program, you shouldn’t go, or at least shouldn’t go with the expectation of getting in. It’s better to just go where you know for a fact you are in the program you desire, especially when you’re paying so much money as an OOS student.
When you’re spending $50,000 per year to “try” yes, it should. It would be one thing if there was no money on the line and you were simply applying as a freshman with nothing to lose. But when you’re very literally spending tens of thousands of dollars on a degree you don’t want, it’s not worth it. Unless of course like @intparent said, you have a back up plan or would be completely happy with the major you are currently in.
This is similar to the state of CS majors at some universities. Since the rising popularity of the CS major means that CS departments are full to overflowing at many schools, it may be very competitive to get into the CS major if one is not directly admitted as a frosh (e.g. UCSD, UIUC, Washington are common examples; http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19262574/#Comment_19262574 lists various schools).
You need to figure out what’s best for you, explain to them why it’s best, just to get their cooperation in helping
fund your education. Nothing wrong with majoring in Econ, Math or many other great things outside b-school.
I think any parent still mad at a kid for not getting into a given college or a certain athletic conference in the Northeast is out of line, especially if that kid had good grades, was active outside class hours, and spent a fair amount of time on his/her essays. I was lucky - I got into my first choice. At my school, I’ve seen qualified students accepted, others rejected, and one patently unqualified student accepted to an Ivy through some combination of wealth and family connections (not legacy). It’s not a pure meritocracy, or anywhere close to it. Doing well in school and being active outside the classroom is within a kid’s control, and if (s)he doesn’t do that, parents can take issue. Blaming him/her for the results of a black-box process is absurd.
It seems to me that OP’s parents were eagerly trying to keep up with the Joneses throughout high school. When OP wasn’t accepted to the almighty Ivies, instead of saying “Yikesyikesyikes got into Michigan, and it’s a great school. The next four years look wonderful,” the talking point became “Yikesyikesyikes got into Michigan, and (s)he’s hoping to transfer to Ross after a year,” because by some arbitrary definition of prestige name-dropping Ross seemed more impressive. Now that’s gone. Hence the disappointment - they find it shameful that their son/daughter is attending a college among the top 30 in a country with 3,000+ of them. This is all uninformed speculation on my part, but it’s one explanation that could fit the facts as presented here.
I don’t usually tell people to “get over it,” but OP’s parents need to do just that. Half a dozen Nobel laureates, at least a score of Pulitzer Prize winners, and several current/former heads of state will vouch for the merits of a University of Michigan education
Michigan is a fine school, but that’s not even the point. It’s just not right to compare your child to others in the first place. Keeping up with the Joneses is a poor set of values. Run your own race.
But if I were to go to apply to the CAS or iSchool just as a way to get my foot in the door at Syracuse, similar to Ross, odds are, I would be very disappointed when I try to transfer. Newhouse only accepts 30 students for transfer and most students end up unhappy.