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awwwwwwwwww, p2n, <em>SO</em> cute! <em>sniff</em></p>
<p>Part of the question is cultural relativism. D once told me, “You’re pretty hard for a parent but if we were Jewish you’d be normal and if we were Asian you’d be easy.” I told her that I belonged to an obscure sect called the Meshugganhim.</p>
<p>I was on top of it about homework and school-related issues. Other than politeness, we were pretty easy-going. Didn’t hurt that we were dealt an easy child to work with.</p>
<p>We started out giving them a lot of rope. They started to get entangled so we had to tighten it. For whatever reason, our boys just get brain freeze once those hormones get hot. So now we are the parents from hell because we just can’t get over the past and move forward–never mind that they have made the same idiotic mistakes more than once, with great consequences to all of us.</p>
<p>LOL, TheDad! 
I think I fit best with the Jewish cultural norms, but S1 has accused me of being more like his Asian roommate’s mom. This is when he’s mad at me about something, though.</p>
<p>Cptothehouse, I always told the kids that I expect them to make mistakes. But I expect them to make DIFFERENT mistakes. They don’t always listen.</p>
<p>berurah, you make me blush.</p>
<p>It’s always easiest to start out strict, or give the appearance of being strict, then ease up. It’s very hard to start out easy then tighten up, because they then don’t believe you’re capable of being strict. Then you have to be awful or severe in order to make a point. Not for me.</p>
<p>In our house, my wife was generally very tough, but basically all bark and little or no bite. I almost always had to actually impose and carry out discipline, so I was little or no bark, but all bite (so to speak). Consequently, my wife would nag and get nowhere, where all I’d need to do was inflect my voice or give a certain look. I almost never made threats I wasn’t fully prepared to actually carry out in terms of discipline. This was tempered by also being the one who’d readily play and be silly…even with our girls as young adults.</p>
<p>Suffice to say I never liked imposing discipline. It’s a parental role that is essential, but difficult. I always worried about it and probably suffered more than my girls when it became necessary. When my girls became older, I much preferred imposing yard work, like weeding, which was remarkably effective because I’d be right beside them in the heat, dirt and insects. It is good exercise and I’d ensure they did the required work. (They also gained a measure of respect for those who labor outside under such conditions, every day, by such methods.)</p>
<p>My daughter’s friends are mostly immigrants or the children of immigrants. We look like pushovers compared with those parents! I get to be easygoing because they set strict rules for their own kids.</p>
<p>My primary “rule” is that school comes first. Sometimes that conflicts with the parent social events as well as the kids. They can see we take it seriously if we are willing to forego fun to help them. -And we always make sure there is some time for fun. :)</p>
<p>Primary household mantra: Have integrity. Be able to stand behind what you say and do.</p>
<p>
<em>lol</em> p2n…you wouldn’t be the first! ;)</p>
<p>ITA with everything you said about the difficulty in going from lenient to strict. Much easier to go the other direction! </p>
<p>
Neither dh nor I has had to enforce much in the way of true discipline around here, but I can see this pattern at work here with regard to housekeeping stuff. They take him <em>much</em> more seriously when he tells them to clean the house, probably because in that regard, I am as hopeless as the kids and dh is constantly picking up after ME too… <em>sigh</em> </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>There’s a car in my town with the license plate “MEAN DAD.” I grin every time I see it.</p>
<p>My mother was strict. Actually strict is the wrong word. Being from a whole different culture, she was overly anxious and felt by keeping us home as much as possible, she could protect us a bit longer. But she went too far, in my opinion.
Now, however, with my kids, they may well have done better with someone like her. It is hard to rein things in after priviliges are abused. However, the kids know that they HAD the priviliges, and WHY they lost them. It would have been much easier on my husband and me if we had never give them the leeway we did, which, by the way is not what most families would consider lenient. More normal.<br>
Who knows what is right for ones kids? I am seeing a counselor hoping to get some guidance. That is the best thing that came out of all of the trouble. He tells me there are just too many factors involved, and though he leans towards being stricter, there are many kids who do not get into trouble whose parents did not monitor them or have much in guidelines. They are just smarter in keeping an eye out for trouble, have better judgement and luckier. Knowing how close some of those kids have cut things and not gotten into bad situations, I know he is right, but it is very difficult to have to keep older "kids’ on a short leash.</p>
<p>H & I are strict on school stuff. There will be no snowboarding club this winter for S if his grades aren’t up to snuff. </p>
<p>We are UNstrict on curfews - but with the caveat that we’ll BECOME strict if
the kids’ behavor warrants it. So far, it’s worked.</p>
<p>cptofthe house:
We create them but they are all different!</p>
<p>It is definitely true that kids have trouble sometimes, no matter what kind of parenting they receive. Converse is also true: shocking parenting can turn out the most wonderful kids. My aunt was an inconsistent tyrant; we were all afraid of her. All 6 of her kids have turned out to be the most interesting, capable people.</p>
<p>As little kids, strict in terms of nutrition, sleep, and no TV. Lenient in terms of what they were allowed to say to us.</p>
<p>As teenagers, strict in terms of expectations of grades and being a good citizen of their worlds, lenient in terms of alcohol, sex, curfews, “talking back”. </p>
<p>Result? I was told I was a mean mom when they were young. My friend and I used to joke with the kids, “We will send you to mean parents camp, then you will know how nice we are…” And now that they are teenagers? Absolutely zero pushing of any of the limits above. Still free to say whatever they choose to me, but then I may tell them if they talk like that I will stop talking to them. No statements about “I am the parent blah blah respect blah blah you can’t talk to me blah blah.” But lots of talk about how hard I work and that I do it all for them. Lots of talk about how do you treat people who love you.</p>
<p>Again, end result? Quite functional children. So far. Cross my fingers. Knock on wood. Make signs to keep angry gods from seeing my hubris. Because fundamentally I do not believe that I had necessarily much to do with it, my only job was not to break them as they came perfect into my hands at birth.</p>
<p>I would say we’re pretty strict about certain things. What my husband and I consider a courteous way in which to live with other people. We expect to know where they are, how we could reach them if we had to and a general idea of when they will return home. We also expect a call if they will not be home at that time, although we have no set curfews. We expect them to speak to us and each other politely and to generally conduct themselves in a way that doesn’t impinge on anyone else’s person, property or feelings.</p>
<p>Yeah my parents are the parents from hell…they pay tens of thousands of dollars a year for my private school education/private lessons, they take a lot of interest in my success, and worry about my well being…but they also verbally abuse me and hurt me…I guess that is the true definition of parents from hell…they do so much for you, you have no right to complain or else you are ungrateful, and if you tell an outside person then you bring down the family honor.</p>
<p>I feel for you jimbob, because parenting is really a hands-on, time-intensive vocation. Time with kids really counts. Forget ‘quality time’ there is no such thing. Kids want time, period - your personal time, up close and personal. And it does not have to be doing kid things, either. Just have them with you…they’re programmed to ask thousands of questions as-is. Money is of little importance once the essentials are addressed.</p>
<p>If you were raised with parents really from Hell, when/if you have kids, determine NOT to raise yours the same way. It’s quite natural. Your wife will have the basic ‘how-to’ information already thought out for the baby stage.</p>
<p>A few hints:
*<em>Expect to make mistakes, no one’s perfect.<br>
*</em>If you offend your kids somehow, apologize to them - promptly; then forget about it.
*<em>If your kids offend you somehow, have them apologize, then promptly forgive them and forget about it.
*</em>Play with them and have fun.
**Communicate all with your wife - remember that your relationship with her is vitally important. The kids come second. Make them wait. You’re a husband first, a father second. Don’t put the cart in front of the horse.</p>
<p>I had a blast raising my girls.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>{{{{{{{{{HUGS to you jimbob}}}}}}}}}} I am <em>really</em> sorry that you have to deal with what sounds like a pretty dysfunctional family. Like you, I grew up in a family that “looked perfect” from the outside, but was egregiously distorted from an insider’s perspective. Those kinds of situations are <em>very</em> difficult to deal with because of the number and type of “secrets” being kept. And if you complain, your parents can say it is <em>just</em> you…that there must be something wrong with YOU that you don’t appreciate all that they do and the life that they have provided for you. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p>NO ONE can change your parents, but you <em>DO</em> have control over how you choose to handle them. I would suggest that you seek counseling AS SOON AS YOU ARE ABLE TO DO SO. You need to realize that what they do for you in terms of financial contributions DOES NOT entitle them to emotionally or physically abuse you. Whether they realize it or not is irrelevant. You need support, and you should seek out that support ASAP from whatever sources are available. If you are still in h.s., go to a trusted teacher or a counselor, and if you are in college, seek help from the available counselors. This is <em>IMPORTANT</em> because <em>YOU</em> are important. </p>
<p>I <em>really</em> hope that you decide to pursure this sooner rather than later. I will be thinking about you.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>I enjoyed reading the posts on this thread…</p>
<p>Parent2noles wrote in his original post:</p>
<p>“By this I mean my wife and I have occasionally been associated with the
strictest parents on Earth for insisting on proper behavior, grades, personal integrity and the like.”</p>
<p>Insisting on proper behavior, grades, personal integrity and the like is not being “strict”–it is just good parenting.</p>
<p>You can be lenient and still require all of the above. Lenience or strictness does not guarantee great or horrible kids. Like many parents stated in their posts you have to respond to your child on an individual level.</p>
<p>I especially liked the comment–we gave him more rope and he got tangled in it so we had to reel him in–great analogy! I think a good parent adjusts the rope according to their child’s needs.</p>
<p>Well, the proof is in the pudding and my pudding isn’t done yet! Sure hope it turns out allright!!</p>
<p>Love the mixed metaphors. Try to rope a pudding. What a mess it would make! :)</p>
<p>“Try to rope a pudding.”</p>
<p>Sounds like a good description of parenting! My H’s term of choice is “Pushing a wet noodle.”</p>
<p>My H’s one is “Nailing jello to the wall.”</p>