<p>^Wow. Sounds like the Form over Substance brigade is in charge.</p>
<p>I am a little harsh here, because as an outsider coming into companies, I know it is easier to fit into their culture or into their expectations of me than it is to present a discordant image. I can be more effective if they aren’t thinking about why I’m wearing Italian designer light grey shoes (there is actually a story here). So, before I visit a company, I always ask a) what the normal dress code is; and b) if I’m speaking, what the dress expectations might be for a speaker. My own natural tendencies are very casual but I have discovered that clients often expect me to be in an more expensive-looking version of whatever their dress code is, except at the top – investment firms just expect me to dress like them. </p>
<p>But, it seems that the program requirements are not about her employer’s clients but instead about her employer’s corporate culture – a bit like IBM used to do (may still do) with the white shirt and tie. We are upstanding. We are serious. … . I’m not sure what the intended message is, but I’m sure your D will figure it out.</p>
<p>The fluffing pillows naked made me laugh as well. And I guess I would appreciate being told the specifics about any dress code as well, but this one would have me headed to the mall in short order. I literally just threw out an entire drawer of tights/panty hose mostly because I haven’t worn most in years. The only ones I saved - and I have no doubt they wouldn’t fit, but they were RL lace that I wore under my wedding dress! Have no idea why I would be sentimental about this!</p>
<p>Sorry to dump all my cleaning woes on the group and certainly don’t want to exhaust anyone - including myself! I cleaned out some cabinets yesterday and now have five shopping bags of various board games and four bags of VHS tapes - mostly movies. I had originally saved the Disney movies for “some day” but now I realize that “someday” will come and the technology will be so much better. I will admit however that I had a twang when Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty went in the bag. My oldest watched those on a continuing loop for about three years it seems. S loved Fievel Goes West and youngest seemed most attached to Beauty and the Beast. The jane fonda tape however was the strangest. I swear that woman looks better now than she did then. Very good plastic surgeon.</p>
<p>Congrats on the jobs!!! Wow… can’t believe we’re racing towards the end for many of us. Even better when it’s in the field they’d always wanted. Im jealous of all your news since I sent S a note yesterday about seeing D while she’s in town, but have not heard back. Can’t figure out if he’s mad at me or just busy. But I realized yesterday that I haven’t heard from him in an unusual while. I went to check his FB page and realize he must have put me on some sort of heavily restricted list. Not sure what’s going on there. He’s generally been a very good kid, so will not overly worry - yet. :)</p>
<p>H&I are headed to California next Monday for a week… will spend two days with the inlaws in Palm Springs and then head up to San Diego and LA to see D’s team play. So despite their “spring break” in Vt, at least they get a weekend in sunny CA as a chaser!</p>
<p>PS. Speaking of dress codes, I mentioned to H last night that he better get thinking about buying a new suit for the wedding since he literally hasn’t bought a new suit in I can’t even remember how long. He has quite a few blazers, but doesn’t wear them often either. Seems he gets by since his work never requires getting dressed up and when it does, a navy blazer seems to do the job. His response was classic H - “yeah, will probably go a little darker so it’ll work for any funerals coming up.” What the… ?</p>
<p>Congrats on jobs and grad school acceptances.
I second, the naked pillow fluffing, give them a show.
or third???
D says the job prospects are going to be interesting because of the sequester, there will only be openings by attrition.
I was wondering about the panty hose, I thought they were “out”
Shaw I sent D1 a email, have not heard yet. thanks</p>
<p>woody - D is on her way to the airport as I type this. Her flight is later today. She’s very excited! Flies overnight, has a long layover in Europe, then on to the middle east. I’ve talked with her several time over the past few days. She was even doing research on the topics of other presenters, so she could ask good questions when she attended their presentations. She said she hates it when no one asks informed questions!</p>
<p>Great news about jobs and grad school! S thinks he will finish this time next year. Not sure about DIL.
One of my problems being pushy about holidays is that they have been great about visiting as often as they can. We have only gone up once since last April–mainly because when we see them it is at her parents and does not feel comfortable. I hope to find out what they are thinking about their own place. Still, this has been good for the baby.</p>
<p>So GF suggested I leave the bedroom lights on and all the shades up–have been closing them and only turn the light on when we go to bed. I am wondering if I should stop making the bed? I am not the least bit modest so may need to wander near the widows to pick something up after my shower…
H will probably start wearing flannel pj’s and a robe…</p>
<p>Panty hose! Yikes. It took me a long time to accept the bare leg look and I never see anyone in clear panty hose. Are they allowed to wear dark tights?</p>
<p>cq fingers crossed for easy flights for your D.</p>
<p>I suddenly have spell check! Love it but have no idea why.</p>
<p>Rochester must just be a casual town I consulted in Rochester for 18 years and was expected to dress basically one step above the people at the company I worked with. Since in engineering in Rochster the norm is jeans (sometimes ripped) and a T-Shirt that wasn’t difficult. Now as a “real” employee I still go typically a level above those reporting to me but they are still in jeans :)</p>
<p>Not sure that I would like the talk – I’m the type that would just go against the grain and show up in something in appropriate and turn in a fantastic assignment. Just me – I would never have made it in the military because everytime they told me to do something I would either do something else or try to discuss why. Just not a follower D is the same as me so we will see where she ends up. Currently she is enjoying the last few months of college. I know that she has started looking for a job but I won’t say that she is spending a lot of time doing it…</p>
<p>Congrats on all of the good news!
Odessagirl went to a Maryland teacher job fair in Baltimore on Friday. She has been given conflicting information about requirements as to two more Praxis tests, website says they are required, people at job fair tell her they are not. So she is investigating. Something I think is strange - Applications to teach in Maryland require your SAT scores. Odessagirl found her college info where they were listed, but needs to find the actual paperwork, which is probably in her bedroom. She is sleep deprived and exhausted. We will see her this weekend.</p>
<p>Weird Karmic energy … Today S called me not once, not twice, but three times! Of course, he was spending time in the car and was likely bored, but still so nice to hear from him. He does have a job prospect for next year and so, we’ll see. Apparently when he told the guy what he was doing this summer (and had done it last year), he was very pleased and wants S to come in after break (S not available before). S was told they may want to snap him up before he gets other offers this summer and so now without even having been offered the job, S is thinking he’s going to beating them off with a stick? Kidding, but the boy is somewhat the confident type. However, he also asked me to look into a recommendation for a dr as well. He’s in the middle of nowhere… but it’s as good a place as any to start. We’ll see what happens.</p>
<p>Moda – H’s comment about getting a dark suit made me laugh. I needed that.</p>
<p>NM – Honestly, it sounds like the dress code that a mortuary would specify. I’m not sure I get the no sleeveless tops under your jacket deal at all. I’ve recently visited both accounting and law offices (big firms) where women were wearing sleeveless shells – maybe cashmere twinset shells, silk, or other more formal sleeveless tops. What I really noticed was that the fabrics were of very high quality, and the shoes of very high quality too. I really didn’t see a lot of pantyhose, and I looked. But, it probably varies by part of the company and firm to firm.</p>
<p>I find myself trying to gauge the “business casual” level at different places, and routinely being surprised.</p>
<p>And here I thought I was finally fashionably modern by recently purchasing a very high-end (for me) sleeveless shell to wear under a suit jacket for an upcoming presentation at a conference.</p>
Perhaps they’re just making certain a peri menopausal woman hasn’t slipped into the pack ;)</p>
<p>I do think they’ve probably found it necessary to spell out what business people used to actually know about appropriate dress, and suspect they’re “conditioning” the students to be prepared for future employment at the most conservative companies, Ie gotta learn the rules before you break them </p>
<p>My own personal conditioning came from a strong woman who led a commercial real estate team where I’d worked during college. I turned up one day without makeup on and was called into her office, where she unceremoniously instructed me never to turn up again unless I was fully dressed for the part, including full makeup, because in her experience, same was required to be taken seriously at work and in life. While I was both embarrassed and annoyed ( hadn’t been feeling well) at the time, and while I found it sexist in just about every sense, I did learn the lesson and realized the wisdom she was attempting to impart. It served me well in many situations since, even though my current creative industry is pretty casual in dress. Like Shaw said, dress code is a tool to either make others comfortable (or intimidate, as the case may be That’s probably what the program SHOULD ultimately impart to the students about the “code” of dress.</p>
<p>That said, I’m still a code-breaker at heart :)</p>
<p>Moda, great news on both the communication and job possibility for your S.</p>
<p>The dress code sounded normal to me, with the exception of the two things arabrab noted. Sleeveless tops would be OK (but worn under a suit jacket, so who would know) and hose have gone out of style. I think sleeveless had been frowned on for women in congress until popularized by Michelle Obama. Since the definition of acceptable differs widely from office to office, changes over time, and is pretty complex, Im a huge fan of clarity. I have seen both men and women reprimanded, sent home to change, and even kept from attending client meetings or dinners because they showed up in an outfit not deemed acceptable. It is embarrassing for both manager and employee. I would advise my kids that if the dress code bothered them, they should change jobs rather than try to change the rules, at least until they were the boss. </p>
<p>There has been a trend toward casualization in most offices, so the rules presented to NMs D may indicate a backlash beginning where some firms want to distinguish themselves as different by not being so casual. S1 was told that his linkedin profile picture should be in a suit and tie and the company took the picture for him to use. I have always dressed the way described. I never could get comfortable going without pantyhose, so I have switched from skirt suits to pantsuits, unless meeting with a client. In our neck of the woods, the men still dont want to see women in pants at an important pitch and women rarely wear pants even for every day in the office of the client I work for now. I noticed NMs D was not given that advice, so I interpret the dress code as on the liberal side.</p>
<p>In Rochester one company for a while tried to have women only wear skirts/dresses. It wasn’t taken well and many women wouldn’t work for said company. I was one. I interviewed. Was offered the job and then turned them down because “the culture wasn’t what I wanted”. Managed to get another better job so it didn’t matter but there was no way someone was going to tell me that slacks weren’t allowed when it was below zero :)</p>
<p>ShawSon is definitely under stress. Needs to make progress on thesis but is waiting for a) an advisor to give advice on a complex modelling issue; b) a friend to write a little bit of software. Needs to make progress on the startup by raising money – one seed capital firm said they like the company but need to see a customer who has actually signed on the dotted line instead of just interest but ShawSon doesn’t want to sign until they are not students and can actually service customers. He does not want to launch badly. He is still refilling a sleep deficit. Hasn’t seen GF since Christmas. May see her once before school ends. This year does not as much fun as previous years.</p>
<p>We’ve hit the point where I can’t help with much. I can help him refine his pitch for $$ and forward on to friends who know him and his combination of IQ, ambition and determination. I suspect a couple will invest alongside me and the billionaire (alas not one and the same).</p>
<p>Having a very weird emotional kind of day today. Just found out that next Thursday March 28th I will receive offical notice that my job will be terminated in 90 days. I have really mixed feelings as I have been here for 35 years only second job ever and will be receiving a guaranteed pension in the $60K - $70K range so that is not a problem. Mortgage is paid, zero debts, D is going wherever for her Master program but I actually feel kind of lost. I must say that I have had a wonderful career and do not regret one minute of it. I will miss the friendships and the meeting people on the street everyday, will NOT miss the conflicts with some of my staff. Have told my W that this will work out well for her too because I have already set up an at home work schedule that includes my doing all the house work and laundry during the week so the weekends are ours and she wont need to waste any of it on things like that. I plan on having the best trained dog in town as I will train him as a companion dog (he is only 2) and he is already an obdience champion. I dont know if this is just making me realize that I am getting older or the insecurity of it but I am feeling really weird. Oh well!!!</p>
<p>percussiondad, I’m no expert on this as I have running my own companies for most of my adult life and have never fired myself. I did have one stint where I left one employer who was nuts (literally – committed suicide a few years later) without having another job in hand. Terrific that you are in such good shape financially. But, the question will come: What is next?</p>
<p>You probably have lots of skills that would be useful. Are you thinking that this is retirement or would you like to use your skills and contacts commercially? </p>
<p>A wise friend of mine from arabrab’s town says that one needs community, structure and meaning to maintain a stable life. Take away one and one should be OK. Take away two and one is a candidate for depression. Take away all three and depression is highly likely. </p>
<p>Many jobs give community, meaning and structure. For some, only community and structure. The question from my standpoint is how to replace them. Is there an activity or activities that you could engage in as a volunteer, if you don’t intend to go back to work, that uses your accumulated human capital and would give you a sense of meaning?</p>
I consulted in Rochester for 18 years and was expected to dress basically one step above the people at the company I worked with. Since in engineering in Rochster the norm is jeans (sometimes ripped) and a T-Shirt that wasn’t difficult. Now as a “real” employee I still go typically a level above those reporting to me but they are still in jeans :)</p>
</p>