<p>Started a longish post on a conversation that I had with ShawSon in the car on the way back to school that began as a result of his being anxious about going back to school. He really feels the pressure to perform at the A/A+ level. This morphed into a long thoughtful conversation about income, jobs, success in life, etc. Then I did some other stuff, added to the post, and then it said, “Token has expired.” Not sure what this means but the computer ate my post (similar to the dog eating my paper).</p>
<p>The reason I don’t like Greeks is exactly what is being posted here: the point of Rush is rejection. If no one got rejected, there would be no Rush. People who get accepted are congratulating themselves that they are better than those other losers that were rejected.</p>
<p>I suppose if I were a socially high status person, I’d love the thought of fraternities and sororities. But all I see is the other side: “We’re better than you, and we hold a very long public ritual to make sure you know it.”</p>
<p>We have always been clear that A’s are not the goal of any education. However, loving to learn is. While I know the kids love a good report card (and D16 is actually going in to talk to her teacher today about her quarter grade in USHistory because it’s a whole letter grade different than what she had tracked by her tests etc), I also try to emphasize that it’s all about putting forth your best effort. Again, this is why I miss the whole parent/teacher conference thing when they get to College. You cant really get a feel for “effort” beyond what the kid tells you.</p>
<p>I thnk I’ve said this already, but I am glad there is no rush/fraternities or sororities at S’s school. While it may create a smaller community of friends for kids at large schools, a lot of times its the difference between the haves and the have nots not limited to money (although the dues etc do add up), right down to looks and what you wear.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If your D calls you early first semester, miserable about not having friends, you can tell her, “you just haven’t met very many people yet. Once people get to know you, they’ll love you.” If your D goes through rush and gets no bids, people HAVE gotten to know her (albeit superficially) and have affirmatively rejected her.</p>
<p>As I’ve said on other threads, I was always anti-sorority/fraternity (I just don’t *get *it), but as an adult I have lots of friends who were in sororities and they are perfectly fine human beings. I have a feeling that my 17 year old D will want to pledge - I think she would enjoy a sorority - and I don’t know how it will turn out. There are so many schools where you need to be a legacy to get in.</p>
<p>LOL, I *just this second *got an email with a list of drill team moms with sorority affiliations who are willing to write letters of recommendation for the drill team girls.</p>
<p>And there ya have it. It’s still a matter of who you know. A club is a club is a club.</p>
<p>McSon seems to share the anti-Rush sentiment. What I can’t figure out exactly is why they all let him into their parties nonetheless. Then again, they are always sending email to his department, looking for entertainment.
He attends enough of them that he knew Friday night not to leave his cell phone and wallet in his winter coat, and to stash the latter. Sure enough, three of his friends had theirs stolen, with cell phones and wallets inside! He says this is not uncommon. Maybe “guy” frats are a little more unruly than sororities.</p>
<p>Ouch! Sorry I started to the chat about sororities.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Don’t be sorry…I don’t think anyone is getting upset or offended (unless you are.) It’s one of those subjects that has strong carryover from a parent’s own experiences, where we need to let our kids make their own decisions rather than forcing our own opinions on them.</p>
<p>I do fear that I’ll be woefully unable to help my D if she does decide to pledge. But we’ve got a few friends who I think would be able to catch her up.</p>
<p>I said this on that Frat thread, but H became friends with enough members of the house that he went to all the parties regardless. There wasn’t too much hard core about the whole process. My sister belonged to a sorority and I was always jealous of their house with a house mother and a cook, the formal dances, parties, etc. My other sister belonged as well, but it wasn’t a national sorority but more of a club of sorts. My UG didnt have them but had social clubs of which I wasn’t interested. they didn’t have houses on campus, but rather had lounges. Didn’t hold any appeal. Older D went to my sister’s alma mater and now the rule is you cannot rush until second semester of freshman year and then there was another rush at the start of sophomore year (for freshman who were probably struggling academically first year and transfer students). It seemed a good way to handle it. However because my D was on academic probation but all her friends rushed, she was even more isolated. It was just one thing after another for her that year. And of course, from her perspective these were things being done to her, and not that she had allowed herself to get into the position she was. glad to know she has come full circle and clearly accepts accountability now!!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>At Son’s tiny school, it seems that all of the parties are at one of the maybe three frat houses and everyone is invited. I guess that being a member allows you the privilege of paying for the beer for everyone else on campus?</p>
<p>I thnk it’s the opposite. Everyone else pays to get in… and YOU drink for free, but youre left with a trashed house. However, I think the latter is part and parcel of any college party. Early in the year, if you were a low life freshman boy, if you came with the girls they excused your presence and allowed you to stay.</p>
<p>Back from FL. In laws are doing fine (in this case, “doing fine” means staying out of doctors offices and/or hospitals), the weather was nice and warm, and I got to wear flip-flops. Short but welcome relief from New England. </p>
<p>Had dinner last night with S since we flew in and out of Worcester, MA. He’s doing “fine” (whatever that really means) but had an unsettling story to tell about another freshman who was arrested last week for breaking into an apartment about 10 miles from school. Apparently the guy was participating in a frat pledge scavenger hunt. He claims he has no memory of what happened and something must have been put in his drink. I’m glad S told us about it, but rather disturbing all the same.</p>
<p>Glad to read your good news, DTE.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Shows how much I know…and I guess charging the 18 year olds for the beer is ignored just like serving them in the first place.</p>
<p>Moda, I agree. I’ve been clear with both kids that school has two distinct functions, education and sorting. [Well socializiation and baby-sitting, as well, but ignore those]. Getting good grades can reflect learning but can also reflect hoop-jumping and may not always reflect learning. At some points, like junior year in HS, you have to pay attention to the sorting function and jump through the hoops. But, not always. Kids and parents, especially those on CC, often become fixated on the sorting function of schools. It did make me a little sad that he was anxious about going back to school, a school that he clearly likes, but I was told that lots of kids are anxious about returning for the 2nd semester. Was that true among your offspring?</p>
<p>I was explaining what the grades are for and when they’ll matter. So, grades in your major matter a lot if you are going to get a PhD in that field (plus recs plus working on a published paper); grades and board scores only (IIRC) go into law school and med school admissions while B-school less clear. But no one cares if you got a B in sculpture if you are applying to grad school in economics and they might not even care if you got a B in anthropology. So, I suggested that he be strategic about grades while focusing on learning and building his capability for the future.</p>
<p>He then asked me what kind of income it takes to live in the town we live in (affluent Boston burb) and send kids to private/public school and college and what we make. He realizes that on our income, we’ve traveled all over the world, weathered medical crises (among kids), paid for schools when we wanted them, and he said, “Well, there’s no reason to choose jobs to maximize income,” with which I agree, although he may not realize that we’re in a reasonably fortunate position in the world. But, as I told him, I chose paths that made less money at a few key points to do work that was more satisfying and fulfilling and felt like I was exploiting the talents that are distinctively mine and doing more good for the world. </p>
<p>Then we talked about paying dues and how pretty much every career path requires that you pay your dues. He loves constitutional law and would be very good at that, except for the fact that it would require lots of reading/writing for years and that would be taxing for him. I also don’t have a sense that there are many constitutional lawyers out there and among other lawyers that I know, none that I’ve asked would recommend that kids today become lawyers. I do know one guy, the go-to guy for defending corporations against a certain kind of complex litigation, who seems to have a good job, but he’s rare, if not unique, among the lawyers I’ve worked with over the years. Is that idiosyncratic or common? What would you CC lawyers say? Would you recommend that a bright, tenaciously ambitious kid go into law?</p>
<p>The older kids he knows are going traditional paths (BCG then B-School, law school, etc.). Many of these are paying their dues with jobs that are qualitative – read lots of stuff, synthesize, write it up. There is another dues-paying path that is more quantitative (analyze data, create models, etc.) in finance, business, government. Although he is more drawn to the qualitative, I suggested that he will pay his dues more easily going the quantitative route. That suggests some course choices, which he thought made sense.</p>
<p>I suggested that he explore other career paths that use his strengths more (I think law gets one side). He loves and is brilliant at complex games like Diplomacy. I suggested that he look for a career that is like playing diplomacy every day. Real estate development can be that way. The best M&A bankers do something pretty interesting as do international mediators. </p>
<p>The one thing we didn’t talk about and will get back to is different definitions of success. My wife and I have chosen one path, in which lots of our fulfillment in life comes from professional achievement and a sense of creating something valuable in the world (including our kids). I’m not a lawyer and not in labor relations but was told that the whole system of labor dispute resolution in a country was developed from a book I co-authored. [I’ve never been to the country either]. But, there are clearly alternate ways to live lives that have meaning and feel satisfying. When ShawSon was 2, I proposed to ShawWife that we buy a house in a lower cost of living place (the nicest house in the nicest town in the foothills of the Colorado Rockies was going for about $200K at the time), which would let me focus less on earning a living and enable us to focus more on other things. [She said no]. But, I’m going to discuss that with ShawSon at the next pass, although even there, it is much easier to build the best credentials and skills and then transfer laterally with a lot of brand equity.</p>
<p>One of my next books, outlined but not started, involves how to think about career choices. Maybe I’ll write it to him as a way of getting me motivated to produce it.</p>
<p>But, the best thing was the opportunity to have a serious, thoughtful conversation about choices in life.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>dying to have one of those sometime soon</p>
<p>Shawbridge, your next book is one I would totally buy. </p>
<p>Great post.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t have any statistics, but I would think that a huge percentage of the US population works for either an hourly wage or a salary. If you are the type of person who is going to end up working for an hourly wage or salary, law is among the highest paying salaried or hourly jobs. A lawyer can also achieve some degree of job security, depending on what he/she goes into. For all of that, there is a continued intellectual challenge that is rare in most lines of work. After 25 years, there are still interesting issues that pop up.</p>
<p>As for the “bright, tenaciously ambitious”, a law degree couldn’t hurt. A 4 year JD/MBA program would be even better…but starting out as an associate at a law firm probably wouldn’t fit the bill…unless it was for a couple of years at one of the best law firms in the country, where he would work like a dog and learn A LOT in just a few years that would help him on future endeavors.</p>
<p>JD/MBA program is exactly what my S is interested in. He’s been accepted to his 2 schools. Just trying to make a decision. Hopefully it’s the right thing for him to do. He is a charmer and very convincing to people. Four years + away so not sure how it will all work out in the end. Currently just want him to pick which school he’s going to go to.</p>
<p>HI #theorymom - don’t know if you saw my earlier post, but the residence life page on the WPI website mentions that Mail Boxes Etc (which I assume is now the UPS Store) offers pickup and delivery of storage items.</p>
<p>I begged my kid to look at fraternities because it seems like he’s living in a vacuum - he never mentions interactions with other people. But given the story CBBBlinker related upthread, I think it’s for the best that he continues to be asocial.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I had a classmate who dropped out for a semester because he got his first B. Now, that’s nuts.</p>