<p>Read the book. Mindset, the new psychology of success. It is a good book and speaks directly about what kind of people take on challenges, why and why not.</p>
<p>sabaray, thanks for the update on your S. Is he feeling hopeful about his future now that he is almost through the initial detox part or is he still in that blindsided/overwhelmed by all the changes stage? I shudder to think what role my kids would see me playing in their lives, but quite sure it wouldn’t be a “hero.” I am the person who works all the time and doesn’t know how to have fun. Their dad would be “playmate/cheerleader” and I would probably be the “judge/drill sergeant.”</p>
<p>Ha, I don’t think judge/drill sergeant was one of the options or that’s what I would have been I’m sure. In so many ways I was the one that has organized and kept his life on track before college- then when I wasn’t there he just didn’t/wouldn’t/couldn’t do it on his own. </p>
<p>He has a very structured safety net in his outpatient placement. One of the requirements of the house is that he work and pay his own way. He will be there probably six months before deciding on next steps. We were very glad that he did not need an intervening placement. </p>
<p>I do think he will need some type of testing to determine what type of work he will be able to do in the long run. More and more I do not think he will be successful in college even if he is able to maintain a sober lifestyle. And I am okay with that. Over these past few weeks I have learned that I must take care of myself to support him. At times H thinks I am being cold to S but I just can’t jump back into my supergirl role and that’s taking some self-discipline on my part. </p>
<p>I just want to say to all of you that I am very appreciate of the kind support I have received from all of you. I received many, many PMs of encouragement that shared personal stories and that meant a great deal to me. Thank you.</p>
<p>Sabaray, you are so amazing. I’m sure lots of people told you, “oh, that’s just how college guys are.” Lots of folks with substance abuse problems go thorugh life with their loved ones worrying and wringing their hands, but never doing anything about it. I so admire you!</p>
<p>sabaray - My hat is off to you. Thanks so much for sharing your son’s story. I’m sure your attitude and candor have inspired many.</p>
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<p>Why do you think he wouldn’t be successful in college if he were sober? I’m not at all trying to argue; I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what it takes to be successful in college and whether Fang Jr will ever be able to be successful.</p>
<p>Haven’t posted much this year, but feel compelled to do so now. My d is one of those kids who has taken the straight path from hs to college; very successful at a top university; sees herself going to grad school, etc. My 23 yo son, OTOH, went more along the route of Sabaray’s son. He was at a UC, somehow managed to get to his sr year and wound up having to leave due to addiction problems which had been brewing during his whole college stint. The next 2 years were like a trip to hell and back and my heart and support goes out to all who are travelling the hard road with kids who don’t have it the easy way. Would it have made a difference if he took a gap year; started school a year later (youngest in the class); had we parented differently? We’ve discussed it with him and nobody knows for sure. Bottom line – he lucked his way into a great job with a boss who is well aware of his history and ongoing struggle to stay sober (it’s been 16 months!!!). He’d like to finish his degree, but timing is not right quite yet. As they say, timing is everything. I think success takes different forms and a college degree will just have to wait. There are lots of other ways to go — my s had looked into programs eg. paralegal, computer tech, etc before landing the job he’s in and we were very supportive. It was clear pursuing a degree in psychology wouldn’t get him anywhere!</p>
<p>CF, in some regards I think it is just my “gut” telling me. Right now, I know S excels in areas that are of interest to him. But there are areas of such weakness for him (such as mathematics) and I know that he is or was unwilling to remediate. Fields he is interested in require some mathematics knowledge and he just hasn’t been successful in those classes. Ever. I wish I had been aggressive in pursuing testing for him in earlier years but the school assured me that he was just lazy, and that was easy to believe. Academic success wasn’t important to him and I don’t know that it is any more important now. He would rather pick up a book and read everything Ghandi ever wrote, for instance, and talk at length about Ghandi, but if one would suggest he look into a “peace and justice studies” major (and there is such a thing), he would refuse as he was only interested in one aspect of those studies. He hasn’t found the major that will hold his interest that he can be successful in. I don’t know if that makes sense or not. So perhaps living life in the real world for a bit will help him. Also, he can’t or won’t be organized; if I help him get started with a list (much as the mentor this term tried to do), once the first thing with the plan goes wrong he can’t regroup and reprioritize. He goes into a tailspin.</p>
<p>Sabaray, your son sounds so much like my sister (who has also battled addiction). Finally got her college degree at 47. She is so smart verbally so everyone just thought she was lazy in math. I bet is she was tested her verbal IQ would be 130+ and her math IQ would be under 80. She actually didn’t pass anything but “general math” in HS (which is probably what they teach in 6th or 7th grade now). She failed Algrbra in college twice (probably like HS Algebra II); she could only take it one more time and there was a whole class of last-chancers where they taught Algebra through the use of video games and she finally passed. She now teaches composition at a community college and enjoys it because she can really relate to the students. I know that college is supposed to make one a well-rounded individual, but had she not been able to pass that algebra class, she would not currently be teaching CC Composition. Seems kind of pointless.</p>
<p>Many people have very lopsided brains. (When Son was tested in 4th grade, he tested at 3rd grade level in one area and “12th grade +” in another.) It is a lot easier to get through college if a student is average in everything as opposed to being way below average in some things and way above average in others.</p>
<p>Sabaray
Your willingness to tell your story is what sets this thread apart from most of the CC threads and is one of the many reasons I keep tuning in here for support and commradarie.
There is not <em>one way</em> to be a success. It is so difficult though , if one is battling addiction as well. I would be lying if I said that I did not worry about this for S too. There is also not simply <em>one way</em> to handle a child with ANY of the issues our kids have. I am constantly amazed when I see advice spouted that if one had only done (name your fix/childrearing tactic) then all would be fine.</p>
<p>Sabaray… I wouldn’t rule out testing for ADHD or other learning differences. I wasn’t tested until my oldest D was in high school and it was suggested by her doctor that I do it as well. It’s amazing how much you can learn about yourself. But between the lopsided brain and lazy theories, and adding in the self-medication of addiction, I surmise that there is more than laziness going on. Can I just say that I too used to do really poorly at math… but part of it had become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Once I understood some of the foundations I had been missing (and accepted the fact that learning (or not) had nothing to do whatsoever about a fixed intelligence), I managed to get through enough math. Certainly there are bigger fish to fry at this point, but I would not rule it out for the future. Perhaps just gong through the process of testing would empower your son to better understand what he can do to make it through when he’s ready.</p>
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<p>Now I will rant.</p>
<p>Schools should never, ever describe a student as “just lazy.” That’s substituting a value judgement for an explanation. A teacher is not supposed to be doing character evaluations; she is supposed to be teaching. If a student is not doing his assignments, the teacher should say, “He’s not doing his assignments.” And the next question is, Why, and what are we going to do to fix that?</p>
<p>Maybe the work is too hard for him; then he should be given work that is within his abilities. Maybe the work is too easy; then he should be challenged. Maybe he can’t see the blackboard; then he should get glasses. Maybe he has organization problems and forgets to do the work or forgets to hand it in; then he should be getting instruction in how to be organized (not pointless statements that he should be organized, but actual instruction in how to do it), as well as reminders to write down the assignment when it is assigned and get it out of the catastrophe of a backpack when it is due. Maybe he is too young for this assignment, and with the maturity that comes with more years, he will be able to do it; then he should be given assignments appropriate to his maturity level. Maybe there is no food at home and he’s hungry. </p>
<p>Or there could be a number of other explanations with different responses, all of which the teacher is avoiding by saying “He’s just lazy.” Teachers don’t get to just teach the easy kids and dismiss the other ones as “lazy.” Their job is to teach the students sitting in front of them in their classroom.</p>
<p>(There is a place for value judgements. For example, if I’m hiring, I want to find someone to do the job. I don’t care why an applicant is unqualified; if he is, I don’t want to hire him, and “He’s lazy” is a good enough description of his behavior. A hiring manager faces a completely different situation than a teacher.)</p>
<p>I appreciate your viewpoint, CF. I do not want to get into a great deal of detail about son’s particular situation but he had several turbulent moves which impacted his early years of schooling. I can assure you that I did the best I could to be his advocate and support him. We had a similar concurrent situation with our D, a year younger, who (I shudder to use the phrase) is “highly gifted”. Teachers were “meeting her needs”. Not a d*mn bit more. </p>
<p>There’s always more to any story. To your essential point: I agree, teachers should not be labeling kids as lazy without taking steps to resolve their difficulties and issues.</p>
<p>ugh…just lost my post! Anyway…Hello to all! We are back from Mexico and I can see you all have been very busy. I am thrilled all of our snow is gone! D2 heads back to school today. Sending positive thoughts to those of you supporting and advocating for kids who are struggling this year. You all are very strong!</p>
<p>Missypie…Is son home? How is he doing?
CF and Sabaray…sending more hugs and hope that your kids find the success that they want and need.
Moda…hoping your S finds a niche/hobby/activity to fill the team sports void. My D2 might be in that place next year!</p>
<p>Wishing everyone good luck as they begin the final push to finish the freshman year! Where has the time gone?!?</p>
<p>Sabaray, I hope you understand I wasn’t criticizing you, but the schools.</p>
<p>Oh, completely, CF! 
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<p>I look back over time and think, I wish I had known then what I know now. So many things I would have handled differently. I’m sure we’ve all had those moments. But onward we go! No looking back! </p>
<p>In happier news, Class of 2013 D is having a fantastic spring semester. She’s applied for her major; they could rank up to 4 to apply to. She decided what her eventual career goals were and then examined majors with an eye to how they would get her to where she wanted to be and then ranked them. She had a wonderful time on her ASB trip and has made so many new friends as a result. The sorority has had ups and downs, but I think that is to be expected and she is excited to be a part of it. She’ll be home in a few weeks for Easter weekend and that will be a lot of fun.</p>
<p>Yuck…another friend diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer, spread to liver and pelvic bone. Early 50s, she has a D who will graduate from college this year and a son who is a sophomore. Very sad…</p>
<p>OH damn NM.
So very sad.</p>
<p>NM - I’m so sorry to hear this; hugs to you and your friend.</p>
<p>Way too many cancer diagnoses for those in their 50s… I hate this disease.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, D was here overnight Friday with 3 friends - including new college BF. Very nice guy, H gave him the thumbs up. They pulled out yesterday AM headed to Montreal where they will stay for a couple of nights with S. Back to our house for a couple of days/nights in NYC then it’s off to Syracuse for a basketball game. Their school just made it into the Sweet 16! Then D will be back to our house for my Bday next weekend.
Ahh! Youth!!</p>