Parents of the HS Class of 2015

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<p>About her *college *list? WOW. One hopes there are other conflicts and that this friend is not that insecure! At least BunHead has her mom supporting her :)</p>

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<p>I guess I am glad my siblings don’t have children…mine are the only ones and thus set the bar wherever it may be. Two of my step-siblings, who are right about my age, have toddlers now…I can’t even imagine being at that stage right now.</p>

<p>D and I have decided to use the Friday off to visit the 2 hour away “public Ivy” in our state (seriously…I flew home from a trip this summer to see a large ad on the airport wall proclaiming it to be a “Public Ivy”). She says she is not interested in going there but she knows it will be a financial safety if she has the test scores, and it is supposed to be beautiful (I haven’t been myself, S didn’t look at it).</p>

<p>So far D’s college preferences are, I’m afraid, mostly determined by status and where she has been. She spent part of a summer at Brown a year ago - that is currently her dream school. I think she would be sad - right now - to go to a school that “no one has heard of” or that “everyone goes to”…she wants to be special. Living in a college town there are a lot of kids of staff/professors at her school, and this particular LAC offers a tuition benefit that extends to 10-15 other LACs in the region, some of which are CTCL schools. So a lot of her classmates go to those and she is aware of them. Unfortunately, they largely fall under “schools everyone goes to” for her.</p>

<p>This is what I plan to work on with her - showing her special schools that maybe “no one has heard of” and special opportunities at “schools everyone goes to”. I don’t need to sell the reaches, she’s already sold.</p>

<p>I have something to ask advice about but will do it in a separate post.</p>

<p>3girls3cats, I admire your restraint with the mean girl in your car. When I picked up D at school on Friday I saw a girl who had made mean remarks about D in middle school and was a little tempted to run her over :wink: BunHeadMom, I would be imagining my revenge on your D’s so-called friend too. Parenthood has made me understand the angry mama bear defending her cub instinct.</p>

<p>And add us to the list of those surrounded by status-obsessed people who <em>must</em> get in to name schools. Last year I was very struck by our dentist who lives a mile from us and whose son is class of 2014–I said to her “You must be in the middle of the college search” and she said no, she wasn’t worried, he would just go to SUNY Geneseo where his older brother is very happy. I was so envious and wished that D and I could be that detached and carefree. Fast forward to this year–he’s been listening to his friends and is now looking at Duke & G-town, Geneseo is not good enough any more. :(</p>

<p>Yesterday my daughter came home from school and told me that her friend ( a senior) told her that she ( friend) will be attending either Harvard or Yale. Welcome to my world.</p>

<p>I told my kid to keep her mouth closed.</p>

<p>Part of what I want to help D with in terms of figuring out where to visit has to do with major. When I was a kid, it was assumed you went to college and chose a major sometime around the beginning of junior year, at least in my not-STEM world.</p>

<p>Now D loves science and math and is advanced or doubled up in both. She gets As in both without a ton of effort and she enjoys both (though she is not into competitions in either case). This suggests to me that she should consider a major - or a whole college - that is STEM-centric. Obvious choices include engineering, pre-health (med, PA, nursing, etc), or a straight math or science degree.</p>

<p>The problem is, some of the good schools for these subjects, esp engineering, offer those and not much else or you have to apply to a particular program. I’m thinking of schools like RIT, CMU, Columbia SEAS, etc. Schools where you apply to a program/college/major and it is not easy to switch out without transferring.</p>

<p>D did a weeklong engineering program for high school women this past summer which I really hoped would help her decide if engineering is for her. She enjoyed the program but is no clearer about that. She is not into robotics or taking apart toasters, but I think would really enjoy certain types of engineering…chemical or bio, perhaps.</p>

<p>So…I guess the answer is to tour some of these schools and talk to students about what it is they actually do. But maybe even more important may be to talk to some engineers, or doctors, or PAs, about what THEY do…sort of a top-down method of choosing a college…choose a career then choose the school that gets you there?</p>

<p>This is the overwhelming part to me, maybe because there’s a sense that if you miss this window of getting into a program as a freshman, you miss it forever.</p>

<p>Okay, enough of you have mentioned Geneseo to pique my interest. I went to the website and it’s a pretty good fit (on pixels) for D; a bit large (D prefers the very small, less than 2000 students school) but it definitely has her areas of interest, is in a nice area of the country, and may be within her reach (she would have to bring up scores to be safe) and it’s not outrageously priced for the OOS student. And it falls outside the two-hour drive radius.</p>

<p>Slacker you should visit if you get the chance. It is in a rural area of NYS, has a small school feel and a very cute town. The price for OOS is very reasonable, and it is a top school academically. </p>

<p>Ohmom if they could pick their career and then the major that could get them there that would be ideal. Mine seems to be picking a major and then figuring out where it can take her. Have you also considered Stevens in NJ? University of Buffalo also has excellent engineering.</p>

<p>OHmomof2, here is a list of schools with highly regarded engineering programs. I have no clue as to how easily one can transfer within the school to a different department or major. I did not include the schools I could remember you mentioning for their engineering programs. I listing/book I found helpful is the Rugg’s Recommendations on the Colleges. I have an old copy, 27th edition, and I think the current one is the 30th edition. You have to purchase directly from the author. He also sends a PDF copy to use immediately. </p>

<p>[Welcome</a> to Rugg’s Recommendations](<a href=“http://www.ruggsrecommendations.com/]Welcome”>http://www.ruggsrecommendations.com/)</p>

<p>Brown
Cornell
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
John Hopkins
Dartmouth
Duke
Georgetown
Boston u
Princeton
Penn State
Northwestern
Notre Dame
U of Pennsylvania
Rice
Smith
Stanford
Swarthmore
Trinity
Tuffs
Tulane
Union College
Vanderbilt
Vilinova
University of Virginia</p>

<p>Thank you Bunheadmom and twogirls, for the suggestions.</p>

<p>We scheduled an additional tour/info session at the same U we are visiting next month in the college of engineering. Hopefully that helps…</p>

<p>I’m lucky that my side of the family has a very humorous approach to life and if there’s any competition it’s about whose kids are messiest, flightiest, more spoiled… (It’s not mean at all, I promise, it’s very loving and it tends to take the form of the aunt or uncle leaping to sing the praises of the niece/nephew while the parent of said kid in turn praises his own niece or nephew. The kids use the opportunity to start their own competition as to who has the most annoying parent. We’ve all been nominated for that honor at different points along the way.)</p>

<p>OHMom, this approach of looking at the major is becoming a focus here too. D was solidly a liberal arts kind of kid who excelled at writing and loved history until she discovered the world of computer science. Her goal now is to look at places where she can pursue both interests and find ways to blend them. She’s signed up to attend info sessions on engineering and arts and sciences. Of course computer science is offered outside of engineering too. Your idea of looking from the top down is also a good one. I gather that this was what some of the speakers did at D’s summer program in describing their educational and career paths.</p>

<p>It’s not impossible to make a change if the freshman choice isn’t right. My nephew transferred into engineering from the arts and sciences school of his university. He had planned to study physics and comp sci and then changed his mind and decided he wanted computer science but from the engineering school. He was able to transfer into the engineering school and then, once he found his place, really excelled.</p>

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<p>That is exactly what BunHeadGirl is doing. She wants to go to medical school, but if that does not pan out, then she wants to complete a DPT program. If that does not pan out, then business owner specializing in running a dance studio/company for kids up to 18, and fitness/wellness during day hours, and if that does not pan out, well, she has not thought that far into her future.</p>

<p>BH she sounds like a girl with a plan! I know quite a few dancers who are interested in DPT programs.</p>

<p>Our family just went through the college admissions display game with D last year. What an experience. It affected H and me near as much as D. H’s colleagues (university profs) would ask him about D’s college stuff. They could see from our local newspaper that she won various awards like NMF, Pres. Schol. nominee, and state scholarship awards. Everyone assumed she was aiming for HYPS. When told that she hadn’t applied to those schools a raised eyebrow was the very minimum reaction. One prof, whose daughter was in classes with D, automatically sent her to the highest ranked ivy to which she was accepted, no visiting. Ditto our BIL the year before. Cousin on west coast applied to a slew of top schools + couple of safeties and enrolled at the top ranked east coast school which accepted her, never having done a single college visit anywhere.</p>

<p>D’s HS has plenty of low-income students, 35%. District as a whole has tipped over 50% and a lot of resources are employed to try to help these kids succeed. But the other end of the spectrum needs no help, a really amazing bunch of kids, many with apparently large resources. At the honors convocation I was agog at the list of destinations. Not so much that kids could get in, but that so many could pay. Of the top 40-50 kids- NMFs, 4.0s, and others, almost all were headed for tippy top schools. Top 20-30 national universities, and LACs like Swarthmore, Carleton, Middlebury, Wellesley, Vassar. A small handful to our great state u down the road (Madison) or the slightly higher cachet (for almost 3X the price!) state u next door. Then my D and one or two others with their unconventional choices.</p>

<p>We are not quite full pay, but EFC is rather higher than comfortable. Isn’t that always the way? When we talked about money early in the process, we didn’t forbid applying to any particular schools because of money. We would manage to pay somehow if there was a pricey school she fell head-over-heels for that seemed worth the cost. But we wouldn’t pay anything to satisfy the need to name drop with classmates. </p>

<p>After awhile she came to feel that if she chose a school which cost us a lot of money, that no matter how much she loved it, her enjoyment of college life would be ruined by the anxiety and worry of burdening us and draining our resources.</p>

<p>She refused to join the HYPS lottery, though they would have been doable financially with their generous FA. Her assessment was that she couldn’t get in and so it would be time and money wasted. A couple of schools that she might have gotten into which early on were favorites, like Northwestern and Cornell, she dropped summarily once it was clear they gave no merit money. She did apply to some high-ranked schools she was pretty sure to get into and that offer a few full tuition or full ride scholarships, though the odds of winning one are pretty low. She had visions of getting the Shipman or CVanderbilt and at the time I didn’t know enough to give her a realistic view of her chances.</p>

<p>She didn’t want to attend our state U, wanted to go away. That ‘2-hour drive radius’ is probably about how she felt, and as the oboe prof was retiring with no money for a permanent replacement, we couldn’t argue too much.</p>

<p>Eventually she did fall in love, with an NMF safety school which was on the short list of easy app/large guaranteed $ schools that I insisted be included. Eventually she grew proudly defiant about her choice, but at first she felt obliged to justify and explain at length to every dropped jaw and “You’re going WHERE??? Why don’t you go to Vanderbilt? That’s a great school?!?” about her scholarships, the honors college with gourmet food, the awesome oboe prof and sunny weather where she hoped to escape SAD. I guess H and I did the same, abashed and squeamish. Pretty juvenile. I’m sad to admit it.</p>

<p>I felt a lot of unease at the time. With the tide overwhelmingly pushing in another direction, you can’t help but turn over things in your mind, question whether you are doing the right thing. My H still feels that way, comes home once a week or so and says something like '“So-and-so is sending S to Columbia. Remind me why D didn’t apply to these places and why we let her go to ASU?” So far she is over the moon delighted, but it’s only been 6 weeks, so we’ll see. </p>

<p>But yeah, very enlightening process. I don’t begrudge anyone their school choice. Nudge our mindset a tiny bit and we would have been doing the same. If we had more money so that D wouldn’t have felt so constrained, things surely would have shaken out differently. We anyway have good company in the struggle to find a choice that is good enough WRT all the different variables one considers. </p>

<p>The year before, another of H’s colleagues had S gaga over Berkeley and for awhile seemed he would go there. But then the initial euphoria calmed and cooler heads discussed. There was money for Berkeley OR med school, not both. So he chose our state u. At band senior night last year where they announce players’ post-college plans, when director told about one member who would attend state u, the young man chimed in, “But we are still thinking about Cornell…” That is going on everywhere, every year.</p>

<p>It could be a lot worse. My D’s bff had busy divorced parents, HS teachers, no time, money or inclination to be involved in process. I could see it wasn’t going well and offered to help, had D pass her tips on big scholarships at various schools that she would qualify for automatically in the program she’s interested in. I think she never followed up on them. Then she started telling people she had a full ride at one of our smaller state schools. In the end it turned out that the ‘full-ride’ consisted as much of loans as free scholarship money which they hadn’t understood, hadn’t read carefully, and parents wouldn’t/couldn’t pay the difference so she is living at home ,going to community college, heartbroken, wanted so desperately to go away to school. </p>

<p>Yeah, so D would practically daily tell me how lucky she felt to have a parent to help her navigate all the details of the college app process and thank me profusely. Although I didn’t know nearly as much as I should have, I did my best and she was very grateful. It was so sweet.</p>

<p>@3girls, I wanted to hear from you because I also have that worry. But in our area, nobody really want to go to those top schools, even though some kids talk about it. So I’m not sure, if (only if) my kids get into one of those, what kind of peers and peer pressure they’ll be facing. I think you have very good reason to think that way. I do too, but without experience I am not sure.</p>

<p>@keepmecruisin, like yours grew up with the love for Gtown, my kids, esp. my D. grew up with the love for a couple ivy schools. It’s not really from us, but from their friends in summer camps. I’m in fact quite nervous about that. (that’s part of the reason I ask to hear from 3girls.)</p>

<p>celesteroberts, that is so sad about your D’s bff. </p>

<p>There hasn’t been much talk around here about colleges with my D and her friends as far as I can tell. D has very realistic expectations at this point I think, but I imagine there will come some pressure this time next year. She told me that a friend of hers who is a senior won’t tell anyone where she is applying, and I told her I thought that was a good strategy.</p>

<p>With PSAT two weeks away, does anyone know if your PSAT score qualifies you for NMF, do you have to take SAT afterwards to become a NMF?</p>

<p>My D will take SAT Oct.5, Her PSAT date at school is Oct 16. If she qualifies, her Oct 5 SAT will not be counted towards NMF?</p>

<p>Ike, the October test will be counted for NMSF purposes. She won’t have to take it again.</p>

<p>I get what you are saying about the picking a major, but not being sure what that will lead to. D is currently interested in neuroscience, but not in medicine and not in engineering…more into the research idea, but not biomedical research… I cant quite get a grasp on what it is she envisions, but she does seem to have a vision. I think part of the problem is that none of us (immediate family) have any sort of science background, so I don´t know what to picture…but she has been focused on the sciences for a long time, so she will want a school that is strong in the sciences, but preferably not just geared toward premed.
On the HYPS schools, I had never even thought of them as a real possibility for ´regular folk´ until I started reading CC. Then I started wondering if I was somehow holding D back from opportunities by not really considering the high reach type schools, so I started thinking about them…Then, also through CC, I started to learn about people that take classes and tutoring designed to get them into these types of schools, and that there are high schools that are nationally highly ranked and competitive that colleges seem to especially like, and that some people do really go to boarding-prep schools, these are things that I guess I thought of as somehow fictional…I´d only seen them in books and movies. lol Just so not part of my world. It´s just a roller coaster ride here on CC…Well, maybe she could go to (xyz school that everyone has heard of), I should encourage her so as not to limit her opportunities…Oh dear, look who the competition is, I should be sure not to let her get her hopes up about schools that are likely out of reach.<br>
Luckily, D is generally much more decisive than I am, and she is already seeing that she would like a not too stressful environment, so those super high reach schools really aren´t on her radar. I just can´t quite figure out what the odds are of acceptance to some of the schools she might be interested in…I see what the test score and gpa ranges are, but it seems like we hear that even with the right stats, it can be a bit of a lottery, so being qualified to get in, doesn´t mean you will get in.
Sorry if this was rambling too much…but that´s what my thoughts seem to be doing these days!</p>

<p>ikeail – There’s a window in which to take the SAT to “confirm” the PSAT score. It’s about 9 months before and 9 months after the PSAT. (It changes from year to year.) So your D’s Oct. 5, 2013 SAT score would count to confirm. </p>

<p>(The pamphlet sent home for the 2015 PSAT doesn’t give dates, but it’s a fairly generous window.)</p>

<p>I think it’s important to remember that there’s lots of paths to many different careers, and that at 16, most kids don’t really know what they want or what they’ll be good at. Even the most focused kids still have a lot of growing and changing to do. I’ve certainly seen that in my (now college sophomore) older D, who was VERY focused throughout high school. The most important thing is that they be in a place that encourages growth and doesn’t put them in a box that they can’t get out of! Lots of majors can lead to an MD. Lots of different majors can lead to a PhD. Most of our kids by the time they are 40 will have jobs that haven’t yet been invented. That’s why learning HOW to learn (not just what) is so important.</p>

<p>I can´t remember if I´ve mentioned it on this board before, but have any of you read ¨Crazy U: One Dad’s Crash Course in Getting His Kid Into College¨ by Andrew Ferguson? It is an enlightening, fun and easy read. I recommend it. In the book he mentions College Confidential. That´s where I first heard of CC.</p>