<p>Mihcal I often wonder about that as well. Shoboe- I hear ya. We have a number that we can afford to pay. If a school comes down to that price with merit my kid can go, and if not she will go to a state school. My kids will both be attending grad school so the undergrad costs need to be affordable. I am hearing about more and more people in my community taking out huge loans and dipping into retirement to pay for school. I live in an area where people prefer to do that rather than attend the " dreaded" state schools. Thankfully my kids like our state schools.</p>
<p>twogirls, I guess that’s part of it. We have got to decide what our number really is. We sat down last year and came up with what we thought we could manage, but I am wondering if what we can manage in theory is manageable and realistic in real life, AND are we really willing to stretch and make it work with the likelihood of grad school on the horizon…which seems like whole other world of college and finances that I can’t even begin to wrap my head around since I am having enough trouble with undergrad. </p>
<p>IHop zip codes…lol Yes, I wonder that too…and even if those in ihop zipcodes may have access to some of these marvelous ec’s, if it’s just not the norm in your school district, it’s far less likely that you will participate in them.</p>
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<p>For that matter, how about kids with ihop incomes in loaded buffet zip codes? Some items on the buffet are free or affordable but many are out of ihop families’ reach.</p>
<p>Is that kid evaluated in the local context and then in the family income context?</p>
<p>(I love this analogy mihcal)</p>
<p>Just for kicks, I’ll occasionally browse through the “Chance Me” threads for various “elite” schools to see what kids are listing for their ECs. It’s absolutely hilarious (and usually pretty obvious) when you find someone who is padding their application with every conceivable EC/club/etc just to show School XYZ how “involved” they are. Many times the number of hours they list per week for these activities would require a bending of the space/time continuum. To quote the great philosophers from South Park…I CALL SHENANIGANS!!!</p>
<p>We’ve told our kids from Day 1 to find a few ECs that actually interest them and contribute to them as fully as possible. We refused to push them into doing “touch and goes” at multiple ECs simply for the sake of showing diverse participation. I find the whole concept of “resume’ padding” to be distasteful, and would encourage my kids to look elsewhere if a school’s admission policy embraced the practice.</p>
<p>Mmmmmmmmmm . . . pancakes. </p>
<p>I think adcoms see through the mile-wide, inch-deep EC lists fairly readily. Neither of my kids has a “wow factor” EC or national recognition (whatever that means for a teenager), but they have a track record of substantive commitment to the things they do, can show that they kept improving at them, and look likely to take active and potentially leading roles in one or two things on campus. Now, that may not be enough for every admissions office, but. I think it’s plenty for lots of really good colleges. Well, at least it worked for DC#1. Remember, it’s usually the outliers that make the admissions brochures.</p>
<p>shoboemom - I would encourage your daughter to apply to MIT. I know it’s a long shot - but hey, girls are twice as likely to get in than boys (boys have 8% admission rate while girls have a whopping 16%). My nephew’s there and he doesn’t see it as a competitive place. Actually I’m not sure he’s even aware of these things, so maybe he’s not a good example. He definitely doesn’t notice clothes. MIT’s FA is need-based so, while generous, if your income is higher than a certain amount you’re full pay.</p>
<p>Like 3girls, I don’t think the college environment is necessarily as intensely competitive as in high school. Your child will be with incredibly smart and thoughtful students and I think that would be a plus rather than a minus.</p>
<p>twogirls, have you and your daughter visited Harvard or Brown? The most competitive part of these two schools may be the admission process. I think if your daughter is energized by the students, professors and general learning environment, then what’s the harm of applying? I really never heard any negative experiences about overly competitive students at either school.</p>
<p>wolverine, I am right with you. I don’t look at the chance me threads here but I hear what kids say they do at D’s school. They go a whole lot farther than the mile wide, inch deep involvement on their resumes though: they claim to be president of this that and the other thing while also being captain of this that and the other sport. When my H interviews, he always asks the kids to explain how you do both things when they meet at the same time and demand enormous time commitments, all at the same time. My uneducated hunch is that the people reviewing these resumes do a lot of eye rolling. They can probably see through to the kids who earnestly and genuinely commit themselves to an activity. I also think they are interested in kids who show a willingness to get involved in something regardless of how celebrated they are or what title they hold. That’s just based on my older two and their peers. The ones getting accepted aren’t always the ones you expect.</p>
<p>Shoboe, there are some very competitive full-ride scholarships out there that might be worth a look. I have a good friend whose D researched these kinds of opportunities and applied to Washington & Lee, Duke, Davidson, Wash U (St. Louis) , and two Ivies. She was a finalist candidate for full scholarships plus stipend at most of the schools and ended up choosing Davidson over all her other choices. Her summer internships and study abroad were fully funded and she’s had special opportunities by virtue of her scholar status. </p>
<p>Some examples:</p>
<p>[John</a> Montgomery Belk Scholarship - Davidson College](<a href=“http://www.davidson.edu/admission-and-financial-aid/john-belk-scholarship]John”>John M. Belk Scholarship | Davidson)
[The</a> Johnson Scholarship : Washington and Lee University](<a href=“http://www.wlu.edu/johnson-program/the-johnson-scholarship]The”>The Johnson Scholarship | Washington and Lee)
[The</a> Danforth Scholars Program | Undergraduate Admissions | Washington University in St. Louis](<a href=“http://admissions.wustl.edu/scholarships-financial-aid/Freshman-Academic-Scholarship-Fellowship-Programs/Pages/The-Danforth-Scholars-Program.aspx]The”>http://admissions.wustl.edu/scholarships-financial-aid/Freshman-Academic-Scholarship-Fellowship-Programs/Pages/The-Danforth-Scholars-Program.aspx)</p>
<p>These are highly competitive and require a lot of work in their applications but they are certainly something to consider.</p>
<p>D does have one friend who signs up for everything. I think she is just genuinely interested in everything though. But that does mean she has to split her time, so, as far as I know, she’s not president of the clubs or anything. D says she and her friends think there might actually be 2 of this girl, and they are pretty sure she never sleeps. </p>
<p>I have told D to just do what is required and what you really want to do. Even with that, if the admissions offices look at long term commitment…I can see that, but at the same time, that means you have to have found your passion fairly early on to have time to ‘stick with it’ for a couple years. </p>
<p>D did marching band for 2 yrs but wanted to drop it, in part, to allow her to try some other things this year…just to see what else she might like. It just seems like High school, and even the 1st couple years of college should be about exploring to see what you like and what you might be passionate about.</p>
<p>The oboist who sat next to D in her Saturday morning youth orchestra (and is now at H) was involved in SO many activities. He never was present a whole practice, always running in and out for an hour here or there, and not filling out his absence forms or signing attendance sheets as he would not have been eligible to play in concerts.</p>
<p>We faced this issue end of middle school with D, who wanted to be in all these EC bands and orchestras but also wanted to continue with our local youth Shakespeare theater that she was so attached to. And also has a body which requires more rest than some kids seem to need. It wasn’t possible to fully commit to both. For one thing, she would have to be in 2 places a mile apart at the same time all Saturday morning. There were a couple kids who did that for years, similar to the oboist, racing from one practice to another and never attending an entire one. So tearfully, the theater, which was typically a 25 hour/wk commitment, dropped by the side. </p>
<p>Re grad school: Not sure what people have in mind when they talk about grad school costs. I know you pay for med/law/vet/pharmacy and maybe others similar. But if you are going into sciences, you don’t pay for grad school. Or if you have to, it’s a signal that you may not really belong there. When I went, students received free tuition, though depending on whims of state legislature, that sometimes was a taxable benefit. There was also a monthly stipend, enough to get cheapo apt., and buy books and ramen noodles. Not enough to buy food for our dinohorses. They grazed in university fields. Obliged to do some work in return- TA classes or work in professor’s lab. H, who is on grad admissions committee in his dept., assures me this is still the case in sciences. Humanities, it might be tougher to secure these assistant-ships, not sure how that goes. Don’t know about business either. But if you are sure the path is chem or math PhD, then grad school financing should not be a concern.</p>
<p>My daughters activities do not overlap, and if they did she would have to make a choice. One of her things only meets on the weekends.
A “friend” ( not a close one) asked me what SHE (mom) can do to make her kid stand out. Really?? I told her that she ( mom) can’t do anything. Have your kid simply do what she enjoys. Her kid is signed up for multiple activities at the same time, then gets mad when she can’t play in a game. Again, really??? There are rules…</p>
<p>This college thing is a real process.</p>
<p>Coming from someone that has a a D13 and a S15. My D13 is a Type A , first born, strong student - S15 is much more laid back. When my D13 was a junior she had 14 schools on her interest list that included schools like Duke, Vanderbilt etc. As she visited schools and got a sense of the “vibe” she chose to only apply to larger schools with strong Honors Colleges. She decided that she wanted her time in classes to be a challenge and competitive but wanted a “normal college experience (her words)” outside of “school”. I agreed with her 100%. 3 months into her freshman year - it has proven to be a GREAT decision! And we are not going broke because of lots of Merit Aid!</p>
<p>D13 has some friends that went to much more competitive schools that range from very happy to “coming home and transferring at semester break”.</p>
<p>My older one ( college sophomore) is very laid back. I can’t believe my kids are sisters and grew up in the same house. We have several OOS state- school honors colleges on the list as well. We actually have a mix of everything and really need to narrow it down a little. Our school recommends about 8 schools, but my kid will have closer to 15- casting a wide net. </p>
<p>The other day one of her teachers asked if she started looking at schools and my kid said " no" which is not true- we have visited 10 so far. I told her not to discuss this with anyone, but I did not mean that she should not answer her teacher honestly when the question is asked. The teacher jokingly told her to get moving!</p>
<p>Ahsmuoh, if you don’t mind sharing, what schools made your D’s final list? She sounds like she had a very clearheaded way of looking at things and understood what she wanted and what would fit that. I’m impressed with her maturity. </p>
<p>Shoboe, I agree with you 1000% about giving kids time to explore activities and to find the ones that mean something to them. You don’t know what you will love or where your strengths might lie without at least a little bit of dabbling. My D spent a year trying crew and hated it. I don’t think it’s time wasted even though she gets no credit for not sticking with it. The kid who tries crew and loves it, enough to pour every extra moment into it for four years, deserves the credit for trying it and sticking with it though.</p>
<p>I don’t think that exploring different activities is a waste of time at all- it helps you learn where your interests fall. Ahs I agree that " vibe" and fit are impt- for my older kid it was most important and that is what ultimately made her choose her current school. She was accepted to schools that were slightly higher ranked but chose her current school because of the fit. </p>
<p>I may have a glass of wine this evening with my dinner. The testing is putting me over the edge just a wee bit. The tutor told me that the SAT keeps getting harder every year due to the competition. He also named two schools in our area that he feels have significant grade inflation ( private schools) and he is no longer taking kids from those schools. Everybody gets A+'s and then the parents get annoyed when the SAT scores don’t match the GPA. </p>
<p>Ahs a " normal college experience" sounds good to me!!</p>
<p>My older one (college sophomore) is one for whom the ECs always fell “butter side up”. She also knew what she wanted fairly early on. That’s part of the reason I’m worried about D’15.</p>
<p>My older one was a sports girl- still is. Played 3 varsity sports and did not do much of anything else. She chose not to play a sport in college but does play for fun and joins every team that is humanly possible - just for fun. </p>
<p>D15 has her hand in a few different pots including sports. She needs the outlet to get her away from her books. So far she handles it well most of the time. </p>
<p>Thank goodness for this thread- it’s my therapy.</p>
<p>I think it’s so much easier when you have a kid who knows what he wants from early on. My eldest knew what she wanted from the time she started 1st grade. Her ECs made sense, her college search was targeted to schools that had the major she wanted, and her college experience directly prepared her for what she wanted to do afterwards. I had no idea at the time that this was not typical and that it would be a unique experience for our family. </p>
<p>Twogirls, don’t worry about the testing. You and your D have it well in hand and it will all be fine. It’s a little weird that the CR is getting harder because that’s the section where scores are traditionally weakest. Math I can understand. But reading? I don’t get it.</p>
<p>My D came home from school today saying that she is not sure she made the right decision by taking APUSH. She thinks the demands of the class are extreme and that she’s not learning enough to justify it. So I guess we can add me to the ranks of those who are concerned about the stress of junior year tough classes.</p>
<p>3girls that is precisely the reason why my daughter chose to take honors US rather than APUSH. History is not her main interest and she felt that the demands of the class would be more than what she was willing to do. </p>
<p>I can’t figure out the " SAT keeps getting harder" thing. He says it does not get MUCH harder… Just a little. My daughter consistently does better on the CR than the math. So far she took two reading sections from the ACT and got two different scores, but the lower score occurred after working for 6 hours with a cold. She will keep plugging away.</p>
<p>SAT versus ACT essay: SAT is more historical while ACT is more " teenage like." For example, an ACT essay may ask whether you think it’s ok for a fast food restaurant to open at your school. It’s ok to give opposing points of view in the same essay ( yes I agree but here’s why I may not agree). ACT asks for personal examples, but they don’t have to be personal for you- could be a cousin, friend etc and of course the examples could be made up. </p>
<p>My daughter has a girl on her team who knows where she wants to go to school and knows that she wants to be a math teacher. She knows that she wants to play field hockey in college ( videotapes games) and has taken her tests. </p>
<p>My kid wants to double major in bio/Spanish but her first love is being a talk show host and just last week she wanted to be a Supreme Court Judge. Sometimes she wants to be a lawyer for Ellen Degeneres. She claims to want a school with a cute little town in or near a city with little caf</p>
<p>It sucks when ECs stomp all over one-another.<br>
It also sucks that the big competition is scheduled for the first weekend in May (when my D needs to take SAT subjects, and also right before APs).</p>
<p>:( 
:(</p>