@Kayak24 That stinks!
But if you can make a top choice work, that’s a wonderful gift that will last many Christmases.
I’m about to take off for another college visit and I woke up not feeling great. It really started Saturday so it shouldn’t get worse, but it’s not a fun way to travel.
We had something very nice happen. An advisor of one of D’s big ECs wrote a LOR at our request because one college asked especially for it. She showed it to us and it is a work of art. I am still in shock. In a sense it reminded me of a “Hack the Essay” approach, like “Hack the LOR.” It was just so unconventional. Anyone who read it could not forget it and I could not imagine it being written about anyone except for D. It’s just really special.
My S applied REA, plus some “allowed” EAs.
Dec 15 he will hear.
He is again procrastinating–he has at least 5 schools with either applications or scholarship stuff due December 1. I can’t wait to just be done with this stuff.
@MACmiracle , how wonderful!!! That really brought a smile to my face. What a fantastic keepsake too. Can you send it to other colleges? 
@melvin123 , I’m sorry to hear you are in the same boat! Actually, the FA Early Read was based on my putting in a value of my shares, which was derived from a valuation that was done as part of my Dad’s estate. However, if they request the actual financials from the business, it would paint a way different (and very misleading) picture! :((
I haven’t even told D this info. The FA director told me that they require the financials if you are a 5% or more owner. On my 2016 taxes I am listed as a 4.977% owner. But the CSS Profile won’t let me add decimals so I think I am doomed if forced to round up. :-S
Sounds like you own more than 5%. Also, another school wants the business tax returns regardless of percent ownership. I definitely commiserate with you! #-o
@Booajo Thanks for reminding me. Probably the most important apps are due 11/30 for my D and that’s the UC and the CSU apps. And USC(CA) is due 12/1. :((
Speaking of LORs, I’m not sure what to do as a thank you for the writers. Some of D’s letter writers have been an influence in her life for a long time, and have invested a lot in her over the years. I want to get them generous thank you gifts when D graduates. I’m not sure if I should have D write a separate thank you letter now for the LOR, or just roll it all into one bigger token of thanks at the end of the year.
For the record, I don’t like ED. I know it makes sense for elite athletes, but in many cases it pressures families to make decisions before they have all of the information.
@ShrimpBurrito My daughter was planning on a nice, hand written thank you note telling the writer where she is going to school and thanking them for all their help. So that thank you note will be a while, lol.
We don’t do any kind of teacher gifts (although I am first in line when a teacher says they need tissues or other stuff for their rooms).
But would there be other options between the free NMF ride, and the ED school?
Something that would bring the price down with merit and not be so uncertain as to future costs based on 2017 and later income, and the business.
I guess I agree with @ShrimpBurrito
My D baked cupcakes for the letter writers.
@sushiritto we are not in California so don’t have that UC/CSU pressure, but USC (California) is on his list. I think 3/4 of his top choices have stuff due 12/1!
@Kayak24 I’m very sorry for the loss of your father. I don’t know anything about the FA process and I really wish I could recommend an accountant or consultant who does. I don’t know if a college would accept the estate’s valuation or whether they look at it themselves and if so, what their guidelines are. FYI, if your dad dad had majority control over the business, his valuation would definitely be higher than what yours would be as a minority shareholder. Also, appraisals are sometimes an art rather than a science; an appraiser sometimes has the ability to weigh some factors more than others, and as a result this appraiser might have given a higher or lower valuation than a different appraiser would have. FWIW, appraisers are not allowed to take direction as to whether an asset should be valued high or low, but it’s funny that a lot of appraisals for assets that are a part of a taxable estate come in with a low appraisal, whereas a lot of appraisals for assets that are part of an estate that is NOT subject to estate tax comes in high. (The higher the value of the asset, the less capital gains tax if an asset is sold). Just food for thought as you are thinking about how much your dad’s estate’s valuation can be relied upon. Again, I wish I knew someone who is a FA expert! Maybe someone here knows?
@mommdc , we have found schools that she likes but none are close to home. That’s a big sticking point for her. What good is a full ride if she transfers out from homesickness (which is happening to some friends’ kids as we speak).
This ED Decision is very stressful. D (through text) isn’t comfortable assuming they will come down in price and fiscal responsibility is fighting with her desire to attend her dream school. Selfishly, I feel willing to pay more for that school because I think she needs to be close enough to home to be able to get home on weekends or without a lot of notice. But I’d be lying if I said the fiscal responsibility thing isn’t nagging me too.
At what point is the right fit just too expensive? (Sigh) If we had concrete numbers instead of this guessing, life would be a lot easier.
@kayak24, at this point, if you feel like you can swing the new # that the FA office is giving you (and if you are willing to), then I think it’s fair to say that you can go ED and if the actual numbers come back higher, you can get out of it. Despite my message about valuations, it sounds to me like you have done a reasonable amount of due diligence and you are proceeding in good faith.
@Kayak24 not to be negative, but I think I would not have my kid apply ED given this scenario. My understanding is that it is much easier to negotiate FA if you have competing offers. And RD was the original plan anyway…
@melvin123 , Thank you. I’m getting more and more worried about the schools requesting the actual tax returns. On paper, I would appear very wealthy. Not true!
Our EFC on the NPC without those shares and based on our actual (versus phantom) income was about $17k per year.
The shares and their related income bring my FAFSA EFC to over $41k per year and that doesn’t even count the value of the business itself, which will rear its head on the CSS Profile. At this rate we could be full-pay. (Seriously??) 
My poor D. She lives in a house where we live very modestly based on income, works her butt off, but gets assessed for FA as if she comes from a wealthy family who could afford those numbers.
Unfortunately as you mention, some of us are in the situation where we have zero control over the business, the finances or even the sale of our shares. :((
@Booajo , thank you for your input. I can’t say I disagree. If this was a school where ED doesn’t increase chance of admission by 2-3x, ED would not be a consideration at all.
I’ll keep you guys posted. It’s a crappy weather day here with pouring rain. Feels like a movie montage where they play music and have weather that reflects the down part of the movie. Lol
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I see this as @Kayak24 D’s dream school and, especially at some of these selective schools (Chicago, Penn, etc.), the disparity of the ED vs. RD acceptance rate is very large (i.e., RD acceptance rate is very small).
Can you write the FA department, post-acceptance and assuming acceptance and explain the details of your “phanton income,” that it’s not what it seems to be?
Sorry, but I just want all our kids to get into their dream schools.
Thanks @sushiritto ! You are correct on the admission disparity in ED vs. RD for this dream school. Yes, I have a letter from the President explaining this and a letter from the estate executor too. Hopefully it helps!
And I have one more curveball for those following the saga! 
D18 has siblings D20 and D21. So years three and four will drop EFC considerably (by 40% with two in college, as was explained by the FA rep). See the heartstring-tugging? Why does D18 have to do it alone? I feel like it’s only fair to help, at least until her siblings lower the cost for her. Dream school becomes considerably more affordable when taken in the aggregate.
Thank you all for your input! I did not mean to monopolize the discussion here and truly appreciate my CC “friends.” 
Re: a child being “punished” for doing well because now he/she has to go to a school where he/she gets merit money rather than his/her 1st choice…
I totally understand that concept. But I think saving this money can be to the child’s benefit. Either a direct benefit by the parent giving the child the money that would have otherwise been spent on school, or indirect by the parents saving that money for their retirement and therefore not needing to live with child when they are retired and broke. That’s an extreme example, but some people end up running out of money in retirement and needing the kids to chip in.
About a year ago I was reading in some forum about an elderly parent needing some financial help from the kids. I thought it very interesting that most of the comments were pretty adamant about the kids not having any obligation to help their parents. I was pretty surprised to realize that I’m in such a minority in my views. For me, my parents paid for my education and took good care of me when I was growing up. It would certainly be a bummer to have to divert assets to help them, and I’d try to get them some government help first, but I’d make sure they lived decently. I’d expect my child to do the same for me. I guess that’s why I say that saving college tuition money could be at least an indirect benefit to the child. Of course that’s hard for them to see when they really, really want to go to school XYZ.
@kayak24 would it make sense for you to sell your shares? The other shareholders could buy it and give you a note, payable over time, with the shares themselves as security.