It should be a surprise to no one when any student is not accepted ED to Penn or any other super competitive school. One way to get a better gauge is to look at your high school’s history and see which colleges have been accepting kids from your school. Not fool proof at all but it really helps to know a college’s history with a particular high school.
Editing to say oops. Thought this was the 2021 parents thread. Need more coffee…
@Octagon When I say UPenn’s acceptance rate is higher for ED vs. RD, I mean it goes from ~9% overall to maybe ~15% for ED. Can’t remember the numbers but it was something like, the get ~7500 ED apps and fill half their class from that (~1500). The other half is admitted through RD, and they get ~45,000 RD applications. Of course, the yield for RD is high, but not 100%, so they accept something north of 1500 in RD.
He also said (as many schools do) that stats aren’t the most important factor. Of course, you need to be in the ballpark, but then it shifts to the other parts of the app…talent, recommendations, what your like as a person, what your interests are.
But yeah, even with a 15% acceptance rate, a very high stats student can still get denied. In fact, I’m sure there are many, many top stats applicants who are still denied in ED, or at least deferred.
Anecdotal but in the past several years, every kid from our high school who has gone to UPenn has started their own business or non profit.
Figuring this applies to a lot of kids, I included all of his tweets.
@momzilla2D Yes that was what I had heard as well: that there is a minimum for the ACT or SAT score and then they look at other factors. Of course they want diversity in their student body so a great student can still be denied in favor of some student with a unique talent.
Fascinating that FRQ7 correlates so well with overall score but looking at the question I see why. It requires bringing in several areas of knowledge, calculations, language know how and chemical understanding.
@VickiSoCal I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure they were thrilled to find the statistical analysis on a question that correlates so well to the final score.
Ack. I meant Lab know how not language.
@makemesmart That does make sense that the ED pool is more competitive than the RD school. But I think you also have to consider demonstrated interest. There is no greater demonstration of interest than ED, IMO. For a school like UVA that doesn’t consider demonstrated interest, I guess that doesn’t matter. But UPenn does consider demonstrated interest. I’ve also visited schools that say there is NO advantage to ED/EA over RD.
Either way, though, I do agree that some students are better off applying RD, if they need another semester to show upward progress in grades, or want to try to bring up their test scores.
Now that UVA has ED I wonder how much that helps? It’s one of my daughter’s favorites.
I get that ED might not be as much of an advantage as it appears to be at a very selective school given the high number of athletic recruits included. My D was a recruited athlete at an LAC with a single digit acceptance rate so I really do believe that. And possibly, this could also be the case for EA at those types of schools because I can see how the early apps might be a stronger, more competitive pool. But how about for schools with 50% or higher acceptance rates? For schools like that, would there be any reason not to do EA instead of RD? I am asking just for EA, not ED. I really want to encourage S20 to submit his apps early for any school that offers EA. I was assuming that would be an advantage but maybe that is not the case.
Just a reminder for CA parents. Now that Junior year is done, you can calculate UC GPA. Be sure you only enter A-G grades and only enter honors semesters as determined by UC, not by your school.
@momzilla2D @Musicmom2015 I think UVA adding ED is for demonstrated interests, even if they don’t admit that. UVA is a very, very good university, but it is often the second choice for kids who apply IVYs and/or other more selective schools, esp. OOS.
@Lemonlee I think for those schools that have higher acceptance rate, ED definitely has an edge, not so sure about EA though. I actually don’t really understand the logic behind EAs, why schools offer them? What advantages do EAs have from the perspectives of universities?
My D20 and I have pushed all the right web buttons and we’re visiting Hofstra (official tour) and Fordham (unofficial walk-through) this weekend. Weather looks to be beautiful in NYC. We’ll see what’s available at TKTS for a Saturday night B’way show. These mini-vacation road trips are the fun part of the college search process!
@makemesmart - I think there is definitely an EA advantage for the schools… otherwise, WHY would they do it?
My thoughts…
Schools want to give results back as soon as possible. If a school only has RD on Jan 1 and want to release decisions by April, they have to get through 100% of their apps in 3 months. They are rushed and cannot thoroughly review each. More kids get through that are not a good fit and do not stay or do well, and that reflects poorly on the school.
With EA, the school gets to break it up… they could get about 30% of their applications a few months early and spread out the reviews. And of these students, more of them probably “want” to attend because they took the time out to do the app early… says a lot about the student and that the school is not just an “after thought”… Also these kids probably have better (or more consistent) grades or are not still waiting to take/retake standardized tests. And for some who get a favorable decision in December, they may decide to just not put in apps to other places.
Also, schools have stats on previous years - from the quality and quantity of apps they get early, they can predict somewhat the quality and quantity of apps they will receive RD. It helps them plan.
And re UVA starting ED… this helps them know that they are not just a safety for the students who will now apply ED. I know UVA wants to accept all of the great apps they get early, but they know that a lot of the top students are also applying restricted to an Ivy. For the pool of ED apps that UVA will now get , they can have more confidence in their decision to accept the top students from this pool. For such a great school, their yield would be higher if they did not accept students who applied only as a back up to HYP or other T10 ED schools, and then eventually decide to matriculate elsewhere.
I think ED is for kids who really want to go to the school. In many cases an EA is a guarantee that they have somewhere to go if every other option fails.
Regarding EA - it is important to know the school. Even at some less selective schools (no ED just EA and RD) nearly the entire freshman class is filled by EA. University of MD - College Park is one such school and is very upfront about that in their admissions presentations.
I am a big proponent of just getting things done and will encourage S20 to get everything in well in advance of EA deadlines. No ED for him as he needs to compare merit offers.
@Anneiv
Your explanation makes sense, till I read @mountainmomof3’s post. (I agree your assessment of UVA’s ED completely). Lol. For UMCP, it looks like they just basically moved their application cycle ahead three months rather than spread out the process with more time. As I am typing, I am thinking the main advantages for colleges to offer EA, is to get more applications and thus potential chances to reduce their admission rate.
@Nicki20 yes, there are definitely benefits for applicants to apply early and (hopefully) have some eggs in hand earlier.
@makemesmart Not sure why UMD does it that way but their admissions has become competitive for a state flagship. It was the ultimate safety school for my crowd back in HS but I would not be admitted today.
It does make for a lot of work digging thru each school to tease out the details. With an S19 AND an S20 I am getting a tad burnt out but need to make sure to check all of these details out for S20’s final list.
As for S20, he keeps thinking if I look hard enough I will find him the perfect West coast school that checks all his boxes and matches the merit opportunities he has elsewhere. His options in that area are limited and he just needs to have a bit of a reality check. This is my least favorite part of the process…
We recently visited Tulane, and they do ED, ED2, EA and RD. They basically said RD is no longer regular, most people who are on tour in the summer should know what they want and apply early. They said if you’re doing RD, you should explain why you didn’t apply early.
Not sure what to think about all that, but I’m hoping S20 gets most of his apps in early just to be done!