My D21 definitely seems to be interested in a college in a city. We are from PA. I’m glad to hear the positive comments on Pitt…it is high on her list. I just wish it was closer. It’s about 5 hrs from us.
@3kids2dogs That totally stinks!!!
@homerdog yes, third week of June I heard. They better override the bus rule. One kid per seat and skip a row in between kids is what the CDC is saying right now. Talk about making recommendations that are out of touch with the real world. We can’t even get enough bus drivers as it is. Honestly, the bus companies probably don’t even have enough buses to meet that kind of demand.
This part also made me nervous:
"Adjusting classes (decreased size, various locations) while keeping the large number of courses we have available to students and with the same number of teachers employed by the district.
and
“Adjusting schedules and continuing to honor student selection of course level and type of course for the 2020-21 school year”
and, of course
“staying within budget as we plan to educate each student”
My D21 is in several classes that might only have one section (AP Spanish Lit, Multivariable, AP English Lit, etc). I don’t want her classes eliminated so the teachers can teach another section of regular English 4 or something.
Chiming in again about Pitt! D18 will be a junior and has had a wonderful experience. She absolutely loves it and the city is terrific. We are in a big suburban public HS outside Philly and sent around 20 to Pitt and 50 to PSU the last few years. For a health science major Pitt has so many opportunities through UPMC. They have released their fall plans to bring the kids back in August and stay home after Thanksgiving. They will have staggered move in and are working on plans for possible quarantine if needed.
VCU might be worth a look, it has an urban campus with a lot of health science programs and a really cool new gym. D21 had a friend who majored in dance at VCU and loved it. D21 did a summer program at Pitt last year and it will be on her list as an in state option.
I can’t remember who mentioned WashU early, but they just send out an email note saying they’re officially on the TO train for the coming admissions cycle. Interesting wording, though: "Given these extraordinary circumstances and the limited availability of the ACT and SAT at this time, all applicants for the class entering in Fall 2021 will have the option of whether to submit standardized test scores when they apply. We believe standardized test scores provide us with essential information about an applicant’s preparation for success at WashU. However, given the current context, students who are unable to, or who elect not to, submit SAT or ACT scores will have the standardized testing requirement waived. "
@kbm770 D21 top choice schools’ email is almost the exact same wording. She is currently registered for the Aug test and if it’s not cancelled and she makes at least their 25% I’m going to suggest she go ahead and submit them. But it’s up her her how she feels as she may not get a second chance.
What are everyone’s thoughts on top tier going TO, if students are at the bottom of mid would you suggest NOT submitting score unless 75%? Not sure what to do
We are in California so all her UC Apps are also TO. Based on history trends she will be in the 1st Decile for her class so that a plus. And no more Essay requirement. Yipee!!
Wash U saying they believe test scores are essential and then waving them is ridiculous. No other school has used that wording. Sounds disingenuous.
I have read from various admission articles to submit if the scores are at or above the 50% mark. Otherwise, don’t submit (unless you are a recruited athlete, FirstGen, or URM). Curious to hear what others think.
@JanieWalker I’ve heard the same recommendation.
Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. S21 is happy with his December SAT score so he’ll submit for all apps but would have taken it one more time in a normal year. Seems like some kids may get to take it in the Fall but very few will take multiple times so on average scores will be lower.
Thanks for the big write up on Case Western. I’ve been trying to get S21 to take a closer look at that but it’s really hard for him to get excited about a school without the in-person visit. Did make him sit down and do the UVA info session. These all start to sound the same but was happy to learn that they are expanding their School of Data Science to undergrad (opened a couple years ago as a grad school). He’ll definitely apply but will be a reach.
Unless there’s a last minute addition, I think he’ll only apply to 4 schools - UVA, VT, JMU, UDel. I keep suggesting others to look at but not getting much interest. That’s fine, I expect he’ll get into all but UVA and they are all affordable for us. I just find all the college research a lot more interesting than he does! LOL
One other thing about Pitt and the Oakland area of the city where Pitt is located. CMU and a small school by the name of Carlow University abut the Pitt campus and another small school Chatham University is about 4 blocks away. So the areas is teeming with college students and @privatebanker mentioned you have the world class health care UMPC in the middle and with CMU right there lots of tech start ups in the area as well. In fact Oakland is called the “tech, ed, med” district of Pittsburgh.
Also Duquesne University is less than 2 miles away on the edge of downtown Pittsburgh.
Here’s an article (many are starting to crop up) about how additional costs of following CDC and/or state guidelines may prevent many K-12 schools from offering in person instruction.
Additional unbudgeted costs add up fast for extra busses, potentially more teachers due to the need for smaller class sizes, PPE for staff/students, extra cleaning supplies and labor: https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2020-06-08/report-schools-need-a-federal-bailout-in-order-to-reopen
The article speculates many schools won’t open for in-person school this fall unless more federal aid is forthcoming.
I posted on the school in fall thread that a neighboring affluent high school district serving about 3-3.5K students said they are starting the fall fully online, but left room for that decision to ‘evolve’.
@JanieWalker it is a real conundrum what to do about submitting scores. If the AO are advising only submit if above 50% are they then going to at least subconsciously think any kid who submitted no score was below 50%? Unless a school is test blind I just don’t know how TO for the top schools who have never been TO going to be fair both those that submit scores and those that don’t.
I have a cynical take on some of the recent TO schools. With fewer tests offered this year, students’ ‘average’ SAT/ACT scores will be lower – students have less opportunity to keep testing to bump scores up.
When a school is TO, only students with top scores will submit, allowing colleges to continue to flout their students’ high scores.
As more colleges have gone TO this cycle, there’s more pressure for others to follow – snowball effect – b/c otherwise their students’ scores will look worse in comparison to TO colleges. So they are joining the party, in effect.
I saw on twitter there some other state systems planning to go TO but the proposals are working their way through governing boards. Didn’t specify which ones.
Don’t get me wrong – I think it’s the right thing to do. But I share @homerdog 's perspective that some places this is less authentic student focus than others.
I’ve understood the same but will probably still have S21 submit as long as he is in the middle 50 %ile because this year things may be a little different and because, as a homeschooler without a lot of other corroboration for his transcript, he frankly needs the SAT score to provide them with at least some sense of where he falls (even if standardized testing is a bad representation of such)! Also, his schools aren’t the most selective and have mostly been test optional before now, so that gives me some hope (potentially misguided ?) that the review process won’t weight the scores quite as highly. If my D23 were applying this year (she attends public school and will have lots more AP rigor than S21), I think I might have her submit in this weird COVID year if she were at least close to the 50% mark, even if a little below, because her high school is definitely not a well known one. She attends a fairly new Title 1 school from which most of those attending 4 year colleges go to in-state public options…I would be surprised if anyone from her school has ever applied to most of the schools on her list.
@3kids2dogs similar situation here - we got an email from the school district yesterday. Previously, they’d communicated possible changes to the calendar and that there might be possible “hybrid” options - but what they apparently meant by hybrid and what I thought they might mean by hybrid…not the same. I was hoping for something that would allow a hybrid experience for the student - maybe splitting students into groups for certain days of the week for in-person classes with the rest digital. Or having lab science and certain other classes in person with others going digital. Etc. - something that would allow for less/limited in-person to allow for better distancing and safety protocols without going 100% digital. Instead they are talking about either 100% in person (with some added safety measures but not a whole lot, honestly), 100% digital, or a hybrid which isn’t hybrid from the point of view of the individual student but hybrid from the point of view of the school - 100% in person for K-2 and 100% online for grades 3-12.
For the score submitting decision, I would think that above the 25th percentile makes more sense as a cutoff for most and that the student’s GPA also should play a role in that decision. If a student has a relatively low gpa and test score at, say, the 40th percentile (somewhere under average), I would think they should submit to show they are in the ballpark, that at least for scores, they are similar to a fair portion of enrolled students. The student with the 4.0 has more flexibility.
To submit or not may also depend on what happens this fall. If the test dates proceed on schedule, most will have had an opportunity to test, at least domestically. Obviously if there are lots of cancellations, more students won’t have scores.
@AlmostThere2018 that’s an interesting point about the score averages/school. We will be submitting because we’re looking for merit and D has a good score. But I agree, without the full range of scores it may be crowded at the top.
Glad to hear all the good comments about Pitt! I think it’s one of D’s top choices.
My d took SAT in October 2019 and got a high enough score (1570) that she doesn’t need to retake, even though her guidance counselor urged her to. TO means she doesn’t have to second guess herself anymore about not retaking!
@AlmostThere2018 TO is just hard to fess out. Colleges are feeling the pressure to go TO now but I think they will each handle it differently. Some schools will truly try to be more holistic in whatever way they can. So, a place like Davidson that said they will try this for three years and knows other LACs have been able to evaluate students without scores might be able to increase the importance of the other parts of the application. A place like the UCs? I don’t know what their process will be and how they guide their AOs. There are just so many more apps. For their in-state applicants, they likely know the high schools well and can use that info and rigor/GPA to help guide their decisions.
Also, I think the kids are somewhat at the mercy of who else applies to their schools. This is always the case, since that’s who they are being compared to, but this year it’s even more of a crap shoot because none of us know what percent of kids will apply with a score or without a score. We don’t know how kids will decide to send a score or not. There are two ways to decide whether to send a score. (1) Using the CDS info to see where a score fits and then decide if the score should be sent. Or (2) send the score if it matches the rest of the app. We will likely use both of these to decide. If D21 gets a score at the 50% mark for a school but that’s still lower than we think she could score and doesn’t “go” with her grades/rigor, we might not send. For example, she has one school where the mid-50th percentile for SAT EW is 640-710. The middle of that is 680. I don’t know that we would send a 680. Her grades/rigor (and hopefully her AP Lang score) will look way better than a 680. The 680 might bring her app down, not up.
This “matching a score to the rest of the app” advice was given to us by a college counselor friend and backed up by other things I read when trying to decide whether to send S19’s SAT2 scores. The goal is to not negatively affect the app. He had a 1540 SAT. The advice was to not submit anything short of 800 on Math2 (since he got an 800 on the math SAT) and nothing short of 750 on any other SAT. You don’t want to give admissions reasons to say no. That’s sort of how I will look at D21’s apps. She will need a score that is not “less than” what is gained from the rest of her information.
Echoing those who have said they have heard many AOs on webinars say submit if you are at the 50% mark of admitted test scores…if you can’t find this for the admitted students, use matriculated student numbers from the current CDS.
Agree with the above though that the decision should be made on a case-by-case basis taking into account the various situations discussed above. It’s a great point to wait to see what happens in the fall, if possible…if lots of kids are able to take tests, including those administered during the school day (supposedly happening in our state in Sept), one might make a different decision.
@Mwfan1921 If school is remote at our schools like at the one that has already decided, there will be no Aug SAT at D21’s high school. Maybe we should all be keeping a close eye on which high schools near us will have any classes in person this fall and try to switch SAT registration to school that’s in-person as soon as we know.
You can be sure that I will be active in pushing the school board to at least give the Sept SAT for the juniors who didn’t take the in-school spring test that all kids in Illinois take. The district should also be reminded that the PSAT is important for incoming juniors and they really have to find a way for them to take it at school even if classes are still remote in Oct.