@havenoidea This sounds pretty good from a public health perspective. In theory, it would offer some flexibility on the part of the school to move affected classes on line for as long as it takes, without having to close the entire school. Is that the idea? The delay between AP class and test sounds tricky and not all kids will adapt well to long blocks of single subjects. But there are no perfect solutions in a pandemic. Hope it works out.
Regarding your son, there are some universities that donāt impose barriers to access for engineering and donāt require declaring upfront. Wash U and Case Western are two such schools.
Last week we took our D to tour and interview at Denison, and we took a self- guided walk around Kenyon as well. I thought both campuses were beautiful in very different ways. The tours were all outdoors, but it looks like Denison takes great care of itās buildings and grounds - landscape crews were getting a lot done. Tours were done with one family only and every one was masked. Interview was indoors, but masked as well. I have been very impressed with Denisonās communications and opportunities for prospective students - their online videos and admission sessions are great too.
Kenyon on the other hand has offered very little and their website is hard to navigate, even maps to the campus were buried. However, the campus is gorgeous. It would be like living in a park or arboretum for 4 years! My D liked both, and while they have the reputation of being āin the middle of nowhereā, each has a defined campus feel that is welcoming. But, D is concerned that there is not much to do in the surrounding area.
Itās hard to really compare the two because we have so much more info from Denison. But I have the impression that Denison just does a much better job in getting students involved or informed and that Kenyon students have to dig a little harder to learn about opportunities and figure out what resources are available to them.
I lean towards Denison for my D, because she is a little more āmathyā than āhumanityā, she appreciates a little more diversity in both demographics and socioeconomics, and she is undecided for a major (Denison has more options). Also, Denisonās Data Analytics major sounds like it was made for her (but I cannot tell her that- she needs to figure it out on her own!). I have the feeling (whether earned or not) that Kenyon is regarded as having the better academic reputation, but Iām not sure that it will matter in the end if D is happy with her education and opportunities.
Iād love to hear feedback if anyone knows more about these schools.
I think this pandemic is taking a toll. Was chatting with D about her essay topicā¦she said āmaybe Iāll write about not having any friendsā and proceeded to burst into tears. Breaks my heart! She goes to school about 1/2 hour from home, so socializing has always been a bit of a struggle; COVID has just made it worse. I told her college would be different and sheāll find her group there, to which she replied, āWhat if I donāt? What if itās me and people just donāt like me?ā. UGH breaks my heart!
@Mwfan1921 good list. @MommaLue I would add Udel to that list of state schools with good merit. A couple of private schools that give a good amount of aid are the mid-size catholic schoolsā¦other than ND, Villanova or BC. Schools like Duquesne, Dayton, Xavier, Saint Louis University, University of San Diego etc to name a few I have looked into to. They tend to have a higher price tag but they give enough money to high stats kids to make the comparable many larger public universities.
Wow, I havenāt checked here in a couple of weeks. I love the active community but itās a chore if you forget to check for a while to get caught up!
So my random comments to the last 10 pages:
Return to School:
Our district is everyone on site full time, with a couple levels of contingency plans built in.
Masks required for teachers and other employees, not for the students. My wife works at the school, and is unhappy both for her safety and that of the 2 kids we still have in HS/MS. Half of my facebook feed is about how masks are ineffecive and cause brain damage, so I doubt that will change. I just hope I never have to get operated on by a surgeon who wears a mask every day. Just think how dumb they must be after years of doing that? Our governor has threatened to withhold money from counties if they require masks at government offices.
Note to self, I really need to move to a place where people believe in science.
@havenoidea regarding AP, we have a block schedule, where usually 1/2 of your AP classes are done in December. The other 1/2 have a few weeks worth of material left to cover by test time, which means 6 weeks of material in a normal class. The end result is that 90% of kids donāt bother even taking the tests, and the ones who do so do poorly. One of the negatives of a block schedule.
ACT:
ACT is still a go for D21. I elected to not schedule it at her school, because I figured they would cancel and I was correct. I scheduled it at a rural school 20 miles away from here. They had it in June, so I figured that was a good bet. My guess is they normally have less than 50 kids, as the nearby bigger town on the interstate (mine) gets the bulk of the test takers. If you only have 50 test takers, all you have to do is move the desks to the gym and you can have everyone spaced.
Tulane:
I have come to believe they arenāt any more opportunistic and shallow than everyone else when it comes to goosing their ranking (except honest but unloved by USNWR Reed). They are just more honest and upfront about it. Personally if I was 18, this is where I would want to go. Study hard, party hard. Not 100% convinced that is the right route for D21, although she is a lot more responsible than I was at that age. D25 on the other hand . . . At this point Iām afraid that a convent will allow her too many opportunities to get into trouble. Itās going to be a long 5 years with her.
@NJWrestlingmom Iāve been there and I feel for you and your daughter. S18 and D21 both went through periods like that, but found their people eventually. D25 currently just a bit better but not much. She is currently hanging out with a couple other girls who donāt have better options either. She had a pretty clean break from all of her old friends a year ago. She was left out of one too many things and kind of snapped I think. I just had the conversation with her a couple days ago (lonely 4th of July when others were doing things together) that college really is better, I promise.
Slightly different details, but very similar geographic situation. We live 5-10 minutes outside of town. It isnāt that far, and we have always been very willing to drop what we are doing to drop off or pick up other kids. But the reality is that until they turned 16, our kids were a bit out of the loop socially. It was just easier to walk down the block to see a friend than to call up one of my kids, and see if parents could arrange rides. So even though I donāt think they were unliked, they were always the one being left out. Once they turned 16, I was pretty free with letting them drive into town to socialize, and I have some toys here to entice their friends to want to come to our house, which helps make sure they are included.
I realize that doesnāt help in the era of social distancing. when probably a lot of parents are not allowing their kids to drive 30 minutes away to hang out with a friend.
@dadof4kids that sounds like exactly our situation! D goes to this school because itās very highly ranked and sheās allowed to attend because her father teaches in district. She had a rough time at the local school (rural area where kids are just mean if you donāt fit it - and she didnāt). She does have friends, but we donāt know parents, which doesnāt help. She split with her middle school group early sophomore year when they started texting topless photos to boys and boasting about āhookingā up with pretty much anyone and everyone! A good thing, of course, but just makes it so hard!
It makes me feel the pressure to find the right college where she can finally come into her own! And i wish I had $80k a year so it could be where ever she wanted!
@3kids2dogs Thatās a very interesting k-8 plan. I like everything about it, but transportation would be a huge issue for that to work in my area.
As of now, the plan at the top of the contender list is only in person 2 days a week for all k-12. Group 1: M/T, all home for deep cleaning Wed., Group 2: Th/F. Alphabetical split, but they said same household with different names can pick one group t stay together. My Dā22 is devastated that all of her 3 close friends and then basically everyone she knows in her extended friend group is in the opposite part of the alphabet. Her BFFās parents lost jobs and are moving into grandmaās house 90 min away. Sheās really struggling with all the social issues right now. I feel you @NJWrestlingmom. Sorry your D is feeling that way!
Our ACT was just cancelled. I have been double checking the list a few times a day. It showed up as cancelled last night. So bummed. D has a decent score (31) but math is only 26 because she sat for it unprepared just to try and the math section pace/timing screwed her up. She has been getting 1-2 wrong in all her practice tests since prepping. We canāt send a 26 Math score, regardless of the 31, for a STEM kid. Praying the Fall will work out. Now I really regret letting her take the first test w/o any prep to āget a base line.ā
@NJWrestlingmom - I am so sorry and I understand how hard it is for you as a parent too. My daughter left her group (well they left her!) due to similar value/issues around behavior - my daughter was definitely the boring one of the group. (in a good way!) I never tell my kids that college will be the best part of their lives - because maybe it wonāt be - but I keep wishing that all 3 of my kids meet their people in college and have life long friendships - since it is not really happening (except for 1 of my kids) with their HS peers. Also, hard with Covid with big groups of kids getting together and we are standing firm with the rules for our area. I am trying to guide as much as I can about college fit and now it is worse without being able to visit - so hiding my tears some days! Still the online tours and for schools that have bios of their tour guides allows a bit of understanding about the kids and school culture. All so hard - but also nice that she will talk to you about it.
@Acersaccharum - One of my daughterās toured and loved Kenyon pre-Covid and found the in person tour, interview and time with students to be very uplifting. My husband was equally impressed and they both claim they had the best coffee at the little coffee shop in town. Since she is an arts kid and a bit nerdy - the school and the students she was paired with were all active in the arts and she walked away feeling that she would fit right in. Kids seemed to be proud that it was in the middle of nowhere and told my daughter and husband all about the activities, speakers and opportunities that come to campus. They also joked that most dates take place in the cafeteria since their are limited places in town to go out to dinner on a date The President of Kenyon is very respected and equally visible around campus. She also toured Oberlin (a hard no) and a big surprise was how much she liked College of Wooster. She did not tour Denison and told us she didnāt think it was the right fit - we didnāt push it. I know Kenyon has a webinar on Thursday with different departments and my daughter plans on sitting in to that to continue to learn more.
@Rue4 D21 is in a very similar boat, for similar reasons. She is my āmath kidā, and 32 composite but 27 math because this was her dry run that no admission officer was ever supposed to see. She is planning on pre-med but not necessarily as a bio major. If she canāt get that up she may focus more on the history interest and less on the pre-med. Her ECās arenāt really biased one way or the other, I think she is pretty believable as a history major, and will have her AP World / AP Human Geography teacher write her rec. Not sure if that is an option or helpful, YMMV.
@NJWrestlingmom like I said D21 eventually got it figured out. She is looking mostly at smaller LACs, so is a bit worried about that. But I keep reminding her that it is a pretty self selected group, and the 90% of her HS without much ambition isnāt even applying to schools like that. So her odds of finding her tribe are a lot better than in HS. If she was interested in bigger schools, I would be able to say that surely out of 30,000 undergrads you will be able to find someone like you.
One thing I think they donāt realize is that in college you have so much more control over who you associate with. Yes, that first semester can be difficult. But really lots of kids end up making friends by accident with the people who have the same interests that they do. You spend much more time with the people interested in what you are interested in, and much less time in the big fishbowl with everyone randomly mixed together. Plus depending on the school, most kids probably are showing up without any social circle. So that gives a good opportunity.
Maybe that is helpful, maybe not. I dunno, sometimes I feel like Iām killing it at being a parent, othertimes I wonder if my kids know how clueless I really am. As with all of my advice, YMMV
@NJWrestlingmom Iām so sorry you are going through this. I went through the same thing with my D21. She was bullied badly in her elementary charter school. She was never a follower and always her own person and unique but to the mean popular kids she didnāt fit in and was weird. She didnāt have a single friend in elementary school. It got so bad she started suffering a lot of anxiety and she had to see a psychologist for a time. The psychologist suggested art as a way of coping with the anxiety and the lack of friendships. It changed her life in a lot of ways. We ended up removing her from that school and placed her in a arts focused magnet high school, where she finally could be herself without any fear and found her small friend group. She now wants to be an animator and is looking at schools where she feels she can fit in.
We had S21ās yearbook photos in the Cap and Gown and Tux taken today!!! The water works were flowing!!! For a brief moment, we forgot about the 'rona and all the uncertainty and just had a sliver of a normal Senior Year <3
@mamaedefamilia I think youāre right about the plan. The school said the reorg was designed to allow as much f2f, with switching as few as possible to online if necessary. Thanks for the tip on those 2 schools. We knew about Case, but not Wash U (though thatās a real reach!).
@NJWrestlingmom Iām so sorry about your daughter. I can empathize as my D has expressed much of the same, a couple times. I tell her sheāll find her people in college too. Hopefully sheāll feel better soon. Thatās whatās happened with our D. It helps if she can get involved in something, even if itās on line. ?
I wrote this yesterday, and somehow felt lethargic and didnāt feel like sending it on. But, you know, these old posts never go away unless you delete and rewrite them so might as well send it on. then Iād like to respond to several of your updates from today! So here goes:
Last week my daughterās competitive marching band season was cancelled (by the five-state circuit her band belongs to). Of course she is very sad and Iām sad for her, but also greatly relieved. I just could not see how it could be pulled off safely, even a toned-down version. These events involve huge crowds, 20+ bands competing, often from different regions/states in any given event, hours spent traveling in busses (no way our band could afford extra busses for spacing). Our director is looking into doing a modified safer local show with maybe mini-events with the two other high schools in the county. Iām still concerned about transmission through droplets from instruments forced into the airā¦if choirs/singing are superspreaders, why not brass and wind instruments but nobody seems to really know. I did read that a couple of universities are currently involved in a study trying to determine just that (Collaborative research with music and engineering departmentsā¦supposed to have initial findings by early August and more detailed ones later that month). Band camp usually start here late July/early August. so weāll see. At least if thereās risk itās kept within our community, which has very low COVID rates (for now!) My worry though, is that a lot of people are not really distancing (especially kids). Also worried about families who may travel to beaches etc this month and bring it back just in time for band camp before symptoms show. My D says just about everyone from school is on Instagram socializing at pool parties, sleepovers, etc with no masks or distancing, so doubly sad for her at home (only child) NOT doing any of this, I let her see her boyfriend once or twice per week or I think sheād explode or implode.
D has bit the bullet and brainstormed 15 possible topics/openers to topics for her essay (though not actually writing yet. She started SAT math prep, but only moderately. Thatās fine with me. Mostly just Khan academy 30 to 60 minutes per day or a little review of the PWN book she worked through in Feb/March. I figure, if the test is cancelled, reinforcing her math skills is not a bad thing (she certainly has time on her handsā¦normally she has summer homework assigned but it seems there will be none of that).
Anyone have any knowledge or experience with Gettysburg College? Used to be more commentary on it on CC but not so much lately. We toured it a year ago last spring and there were things we liked and others less so. We watched a virtual event with an AO and two students on Friday and got a more positive feeling. I sense that the school is trying to downplay Greek life a bit and maybe attract a more diverse student body, but hard to say. I donāt think it would be a slam-dunk safety for my D but Iād honestly be surprised if she didnāt get in and itās a reasonable driving distance for us if t seems that Covid-19 will be in the picture for a long time and we decide to stay closer to home.
@Momof3B We had our pictures last week. D21 made sure to wear her mask in a few!
@NJWrestlingmom Your daughter is not alone in the way she feels! D21 was already an introvert who would rather be at home. She has anxiety about germs as well, so even though we would let her have friends over, she has only had 2. We also live over 30 minutes away from a lot of her friends. I think she feels like she will have no one by the end of this, but also doesnāt want to go anywhere because of the germ fear.
School board voted to do a hybrid approach, breaking the kids into 3 groups- 1 week at school then 2 at home. Siblings across the schools will be grouped, then they will consider bus riders. Since D21 has no siblings and drives, she will get placed last. She will have Ap Lit, AP Stat and 2 electives along with her 2 DE that will be online. Almost all of the electives she signed up for will be difficult as they are either performing arts or require leaving campus. Iām not sure where the schools are going to get all the cleaning supplies needed. Teachers are desperate for those in a normal year. Also unknown is who will teach the online portion, but it sounds like the kids could have 2 teachers one in person, one online for each class. I donāt hate the plan, I think they are doing the best they can, but I am concerned for families with younger children and childcare.
We have had some similar struggles over the years with some of our kids finding their people, so I certainly empathize.
Our school system announced changes to their plans today. We have until Friday to decide whether we want each kid to go 100% f2f or 100% remote for the first semester. Masks were supposedly being encouraged but not required (argh, Georgia), but in light of the rising numbers here and what happened with the University system in Georgia this week (they announced non-mandatory masks and faced a lot of backlash and changed the decision), our school district has now changed to mandatory masks unless you have medical documentation. They arenāt doing much to de-densify the classrooms, though. Theyāve decided to push the start of school a week later to give more time for planning, but we still have to give our choice as of this Friday. One D23 is definitely doing remote. Thatās what she wants, and weāre good with it. The other D23 weāre torn on but Iām leaning remote. Itās complicated - I have a list of ~20 factors weāre thinking through. Sheād rather go f2f but isnāt completely confident about it and is torn as well. One other change to the plan is to push back the start date 5 days to give teachers/administrators more time to plan. Weāre happy about that. They didnāt add any days to the calendar, though, so apparently weāre just doing without those 5 days.
For S21 we still have timeā¦he doesnāt start back to school until close to Labor Day at his homeschool hybrid so they havenāt announced plans yet, and because they are very small (about a dozen kids), theyāll have more flexibility and probably involve us more in the decisionā¦in the Spring, they checked in with my H for some guidance since he works for CDC. Right now H is gone for the month - he was deployed by CDC to go help with figuring out how to reopen schools while mitigating transmission in Navajo Nationā¦what theyāre facing definitely gives us some perspective. If my D23s have to go remote for the entire Fall, theyāll be okay.
Meanwhile, S21 finished his online interviews today. He did 9 total over the course of the last 4 weeks or so. Weāve started SAT prep again (he definitely backslides in math, so itās better with him to do it over the course of July and August instead of trying to cram for 2-3 weeks in August, but it will be frustrating, of course, if that Aug SAT gets cancelled). He will start his personal statement next week - weāve talked through some potential topics but he hasnāt done anything beyond that with it yet. The goal is for him to have a decent draft by the end of July. I donāt know that it will be ready to submit, but hopefully it will be in decent shape for further revisions once he sits down with his English teacher for an essay session in August. I donāt think weāll do any visits this Fall. We got 2 in last Fall, and thatās likely going to be it until next Spring, if it can even happen then. We had 5 scheduled (flights, hotels, etc.) that we had to cancel in March and May. Dickinson sent out an email today saying that it was possible to sign up, but PA requires visitors from GA (and a list of other states) to quarantine for 14 days. I canāt say I blame them, but who knows if weāll ever get to visit these schools before S21 has to decide next Spring ? ugh.
@NJWrestlingmom I am sorry your daughter is having a hard time with friends, we have dealt with similar situations here. Hopefully she will find lifelong friends in college.
On the Aug SAT, I heard from a friend that works at the district, it will most likely be cancelled in our district. There is a surge in cases throughout TX and there is talk that a lot of districts will switch to start school online and campuses will be closed in August.
Thanks again! @Mwfan1921 Iām trying not to hover but sometimes kids donāt know what they donāt know so Iām trying to guide him on potential resources. We are in CA and I would be pleased if he got into any of the UCs (minus Santa Cruz, Riverside, Merced). I think UCLA, Berkeley, and UCSD would be schools heād love but he is also applying to Ivies (exc Columbia, Dartmouth), USC, and Cal Northstate University. Wants to be a doctor so he is hoping to find a home in integrative or regenerative human bio or some sort of bio/business at some of the schools that have this option, as well as medical anthropology.
I think his stats are solid (4.45 W, 3.88 UW, 10 APs by the time heās done, and 36 ACT, volunteers at a hospital with senior patients last two years, done mission work out of the country, founding MESA chapter Officer at school, VP of a couple of other community service clubs, interned with SMUD and had an internship with Intel before they canceled this summer, too school scorer on AMC this year and top 5% overall vs US?) but I also think he is not extraordinary vs kids who get into Ivies and get the fancy scholarships. Heās not saved lives, hasnāt found a company, and for sure no national completion. Thatās why I thought something like scholarships I got when I was in school was more realisticāI got a Coke leadership scholarships, random companies scholarships. Certainly enough to pay for half of my tuition in undergrad.
I donāt think heās interested in the other LACs.
@Mcru1231 tell me more about animation schools! D21 has always had art as a hobby and has now picked it back up again with staying at home. Sheās started mentioning art in her list of potential majors (along with 10 other things!) so Iād be interested to hear where your child is looking. She wonāt have a portfolio to submit so I think weād be looking at a minor or alternate major to start. But she is interested in animation!
The President of Kenyon is very respected and equally visible around campus. She also toured Oberlin (a hard no) and a big surprise was how much she liked College of Wooster. She did not tour Denison and told us she didnāt think it was the right fit - we didnāt push it. I know Kenyon has a webinar on Thursday with different departments and my daughter plans on sitting in to that to continue to learn more.