Thanks! Will have to check it out!
OSU announced the same very recently.
Maybe people can add here.
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A single short one-level test doesnât make much sense.
Something like the A Level or IB systems make more sense, although even in those systems the most selective undergrad programs sometimes do additional tests.
The AP system is relatively crude and low level in comparison, and so has not taken over at various secondary schools.
More colleges may nonetheless go back to being test required, but I am more betting on continued development of rapid first-stage screening that factors in lots of data and not any one thing.
I think if the goal is to meaningfully reduce the # of applications (the part I was responding to, not any sort of attempt to truly fix the system), the SAT suffices. Undo TO, go back to required, and poof there go a metric ton of applications.
I understand the potential costs of doing that.
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I am confident that stated that way, that is not the goal for many, if any, colleges. Indeed, if it was that simple, something like a $10000 application fee would probably do the trick.
But what you were originally responding to was my statement about their problem being deterring the ambitious but not well qualified. That is not as simple as just reducing the total application count, it is about reducing the count of only a certain type of application.
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Many schools are worried about the enrollment cliff. They probably arenât wanting to reduce their applications anytime soon.
I think unfortunately we just hit a really weird year (or weird several years since 2020). It hasnât helped with the delayed FAFSA problems.
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So part of what is happening is enrollment at the more national colleges is staying steady, while it has been dropping already at many local/regional colleges. That doesnât mean the national schools are not concerned at all about that process accelerating, but I think for them that is more a long term issue than anything immediately dire.
But for sure, the pool of really well-qualified appliCANTS has not exploded in proportion to the explosion in the sheer number of appliCATIONS. Some of those additional applications are just the same pool of qualified applicants applying more places, which leads to a problem of increasingly inefficient matching. And some are applications from people who really do not have a chance, but donât necessarily know that.
But they donât actually want to discourage well-qualified applicants who might be a good match. And in fact, they want to get more applications from populations like FGLIs, who may not always understand exactly when they are in fact well-qualified given contextual admissions.
So . . . tricky! How do you simultaneously discourage the applications you donât want, keep getting the applications you do want, and actually get even more applications out of groups you feel are underapplying . . . all without any sort of good mechanism for communicating in advance to individuals into which group they would fall?
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Actually I do believe that restoring testing requirements would in fact eliminate a great many ambitious but unqualified applicants.
It would also eliminate others as another commenter mentioned.
So agree to disagree.
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But how much of the boom in enrollments in schools like northeastern is unqualified applicants? Is there any information this is true? Isnât most of it kids like my S24 who are highly qualified and applied to 10 schools before the ED notification date since the process is so unclear? Free applications, no essay, makes it so easy for him to apply to so many schools. We only paid application fees for half of the schools he applied to and if he didnât get in ED he would have applied to 10 or more extra.
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I donât think the unqualified applicants are the problem. Those 20-30% can be filtered out pretty quickly, take their $70 and stick them in the no pile. A high test score is going to save an otherwise weak applicant and vice versa. They have enough data even without test scores to figure out who to focus their time on.
But they have to carefully read those strong applicants who have applied to dozens of schools. Iâm not sure how to solve that. The strong kids will all have strong test scores and there will still be too many of them.
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Most kids are probably qualified.
But in comparison to more highly selective schools, only 33% enrolled at Northeastern submitted the SAT and 11% submitted ACT (I assume some kids submitted both).
SAT/ACT is only one data point but it may reflect how competitive it is versus other colleges.
I donât have any great insight into the best way to reduce the number of ambitious but under qualified without discouraging under represented students from applying. Unfortunately much of the huge volume seems to be driven by uncertainty. S24 applied to 14 schools - 3 of which were added after his Brown rejection and the poor showing of kids from our school during ED. If he had known he would be in at UVA and W&M he would not have applied to those 3 schools.
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More accurately, I think that most kids may be minimally qualified. Perhaps an argument for raising the bar a little at some schools.
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At those schools the bar has always varied depending on what group you are part of - academically, it tends to be highest for unhooked kids. The level of academic preparedness that you need to be successful at Harvard and the like is not as high as youâd think. They were successfully graduating students who came in with lower grades/scores long before TO.
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One thing I think would help with the overabundance of applications would be if schools reported their EA decisions before RD deadlines. In our case that would have cut at least 3 schools from the list and maybe more. As it is, with many EA results coming in far past RD deadlines, some kids are loading up on the number of apps because they canât be certain where theyâll get in. That being said, most kids are applying to schools that accept most applicants and they arenât applying to 14 schools. But for the kids that are applying really, really widely I think you could cut down numbers by having EA out earlier. Thatâs just my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I think it would help. Of course it isnât going to happen so it is a bit of a moot point.
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Went out of town for a couple of days and it fun to come back and see so many families getting great scholarship and acceptance news! Congratulations!
Just took S24 to accepted students day at TCU and had the best trip! The application process has been full of surprises with him - last year he was mostly interested in LACs/small schools, which led to us touring those schools. Beginning of senior year, he did a 180 and applied almost exclusively to big state flagships, and he currently has 7 acceptances to schools he has never visited. I have been very anxious about the prospect of sending him to most of these schools because they are so very large. We are trying hard to visit as many as we can and TCU is the only private/smaller school option for him, and my anxious heart really hoped we both would love it.
TCU really impressed both of us and I think he would be really happy there. I will post about the school and our trip to Fort Worth in the colleges visited thread. The âJâ in me really hoped he would just go ahead and commit to TCU, but of course he needs to compare options and make sure he feels comfortable with his decision.
The best part of the trip, though, was having the time with S24. In some ways, he has withdrawn over the course of senior year. I think this is a normal part of growing up and asserting his independence, but I treasured all of the great conversations we ended up having. He also is a great traveling companion who was up for trying anything, helpful, and considerate. Iâm really going to miss him.
Meanwhile, D24 (who will attend Smith) spent the weekend in the Pioneer Valley staying with a friend who attends Mount Holyoke. She has been loving the snow and she and friends have taken the bus to Northampton and Amherst and she is having so much fun. Itâs great to know she already feels so at home and happy in the area, even in the winter!
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And the results are a part of the problem. When they are deferring majority of the kids to RD, what was the point. A decision needs to be made so the poor kids have some direction. They took the time to apply early, some as early as October, only to be deferred.
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Yup. I think UVAâs move to accept/reject/waitlist is a better way to go. Some schools defer way more kids than they accept - better to just reject them up front as most will only go on to be rejected. If you are going to defer, make it a very small % of kids who have a realistic chance of eventual acceptance.
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Totally agree and in a case like Harvard that deferred 83% or whatever it was, what inner workings are there to prioritize who gets reviewed again as they canât possibly have time or resources to do that alongside regular applications. The inefficiency of it bothers me so.
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