Healthcare in the US - loves professor and material, confirmed strong interest in public health concentration. Working hard and seeing results, as expected.
Pride and Prejudice in the Development of Scientific Theories - small seminar class, enjoying very much, lower workload/stress class as intended by Prof, wants engaged discussion and grading is presentations and a paper.
Chem 2 - likes professor, very challenging and spending a lot time on it. Got a nice surprise email for being top 10% on first exam and hoping they consider Chem as a concentration and to reach out anytime to discuss if interested. Hoping this will carry over to orgo next semester, scared of that one.
MVC - this one has been humbling and if he could go back in time he wouldn’t have taken. Doesn’t care for Prof and has started watching other sections Prof as well as seeking tutoring to help. He’s out of A contention and bummed that is now on his med school gpa when he could have satisfied the requirement with his 5 in Calc BC. There were two options and he chose the class for engineers, forget why, not sure the other MVC would have been any better. He’s a good math student but stronger in science.
The Calc did make him reevaluate spring classes and may drop 3rd science and play it a little safer now that there is a B in the mix. Parent point, hate this is even a stress out of the gates and that the application system discourages risk taking and exploration to play it safe. He spoke with healthcare advising if he should drop to prevent a B as he doesn’t need class to graduate on time and they said not to. Only scenario they would consider it is if time spent keeping the B in math would cause others to slip which isn’t a concern.
This seems a common theme. Mine was warned by a student panel on math/science that counts for your major, retake was the unanimous guidance. I know folks here disagree - say get the old tests and see if you can do.
My son did not fare as well as yours. He withdrew but then got an A. Of course he blamed the professor. It’s never yourself
Students should really think long and hard before always stepping up. Of course, for many it works.
Of course, I don’t think a B will keep him from becoming a dr. Too much pressure.
Yeah, I am sure one B in MVC will not keep someone out of med school, but I also understand how it feels like anything at all like that is narrowing your future margin for error.
My S24 at WashU is really barely considering pre-health possibilities, but he is at least going to a 1 credit P/F informative class (which I omitted since it really doesn’t matter academically), and talking to his advisor a bit. And they very much are doing everything they can to encourage pre-health kids to take it slow, not leap ahead, space out their tougher classes, and so on. Which is undoubtedly good advice, but I also think inadvertently underscores that feeling there is not much margin for error.
Edit:
I thought this was a pretty interesting document they make available:
Lots of interesting thinking, but you can see the not-so-subtle messaging. They emphasize, “All paths lead to medical school!” Most of the paths involving what they call a glide year (or more than one) get positive names, but what you might call the most conventional four-year path is called “No rest for the weary”. And so on.
Anyway, S24 is taking Calc III (MVC) next term. I don’t think the main reason he is taking it is for pre-health purposes, but it would potentially keep him on the “No rest for the weary” track (as I understand it, this would only be necessary for med schools and such that have a college calculus requirement but don’t accept APs). The nominal purpose is it would complete the Math requirements for a Bio major and also allow him to take Physical Chemistry eventually if he so chooses.
He already took some MVC his senior year in HS, so knock on wood it isn’t overwhelming. MVC was also the last college math class I actually enjoyed and did well in, so there is that.
But still, in the back of my mind I am wondering if he is pushing it unnecessarily. We shall see.
Yes, at the end of the day, just disappointed a B came from a class that didn’t need to be. All through high school he was very extra in his class selection and we encouraged risk taking to learn over a possible fear of a B and it worked out well, this time it didn’t.
Would have much rather he had taken a super interesting class just for the sake of exploration. Is what it is, if I was on the selection committee’s though I’d rather the kid that didn’t play it safe.
Adding, a few of his pre-med friends in class are in same position. One thing he notes was that all homework is accuracy graded so there is no buffer in anything to even slightly assist overall grade.
That a great resource and “no rest for the weary” is accurately named. I’ve posted about this before, but saw an article yesterday from Fall in Brown paper about pre-med issues and the whole spring orgo only. I guess there was a petition at some point. Talked about how you’re forced to skip chem 1 or forgo study abroad in most cases if you even went a shot at no gap year. Knowing what I know now, a little more advising for any possibly considering pre-med would be nice, especially if semester 1 choice dictates path to such a degree.
Makes me wonder if he should be questioning the healthcare advising more? Told him to confer with his friends in same position and confirm they got same message. He wouldn’t bother retaking though. It wouldn’t appear on transcript at all, only internally, would show he took one less class than norm though. They said this isn’t a big deal for first semester if he was in position of needing to drop to keep other A’s, but I don’t know the best play. I could make a case for either.
Yeah, I feel like a pathways chart like that should be available for each college, posted prominently somewhere on their pre-health webpages, and then emailed to incoming first-years in the summer before they select courses.
Like for WashU, that chart also indicates if you want to study abroad, you are likely looking at a gap year (see “Wanderlust”), unless maybe if you are planning to do summer classes. Good to know as soon as possible, indeed before actually choosing a college I would think.
By the way, as I understand it, one of the “rules” used in constructing that chart is you can never have more than two of the required courses in the same term, with MCAT prep counting as well.
Seems like a good rule to me–which S24 is about to violate by doing the second part of General Chemistry, Bio 1, and Calculus (in his case Calc III MVC) in the upcoming term.
Again, might be fine, but it is the sort of thing that is in the back of my mind.
Edit: Although I note this is actually normal for a Bio major. Like if you look under the major requirements here:
They have a “typical program for the first two years” which calls for just that schedule spring of Year One (Math 233 is Calc III (MVC)).
Just interesting to me that there is this sort of implicit contradiction between the recommended pathway for a Bio major and for a pre-med. And kinda supports the observation maybe being something like a Bio major is not actually ideal for pre-med, at least if you can major in something else within the “gray space” of the pre-med chart (which you certainly can at WashU and I suspect within most “Arts and Sciences” colleges, schools, and so on).
The good rule he plans to violate made me chuckle. I’m sure all will be fine, but my serial violator will now be falling in line more. Doing their equivalent of P/F could have been an option too, but he thought he was okay when it was still a choice.
You motivated me to dig into bio requirements later for curiosity, that’s most common double concentration with public health and pre-med due to crossover and something being considered.
The only thing my D20 knew for sure when applying to colleges was that she wanted to do a semester abroad. She chose a school that indicated this was doable for nearly all majors in a normal 8 semester sequence. Once she declared her major, her advisor assured her she could definitely do a semester abroad.
However, it wasn’t until fall of sophomore year, when she was meeting to pick her classes for spring semester that the advisor either realized, or just finally communicated that the ONLY semester she could do would be spring of her soph year Given that her entire first year was online and off-campus (thanks, Covid) and she was only six weeks in to her first time experience in the dorms…she didn’t feel ready to do it then. It was a huge disappointment, and one that could have been avoided with some sort of major-specific pathways chart.
Parents should be aware of these potentially “sneaky” curriculum plan issues. As we are discussing, in an ideal world all this would be very transparent. But in the real world, I think it typically takes quite a bit of effort to understand what the four-year plan actually looks like at a given college for different majors, tracks, and so on.
So this is definitely on the list of things a parent might encourage their kids to investigate, starting as early as practical. And as your story indicates, it is not too late for those of us with first-years in college to be doing that. Probably too late for them to change colleges, but not too late for them to better understand their practical path options for different majors and tracks and so on.
Yeah, when it comes to study abroad, pretty much every college has it as an option, but the devil is in the details. Like:
is it a full year abroad, a semester, a 6-week summer program, or a shorter 3-week/1 class thing?
is it a program where your kid will take classes under professors from the kid’s college who are ‘in country’ in the abroad location? Or will the student be taking regular classes at a foreign university that only has a loose affiliation/association with your kid’s college back in the US?
do you have to apply separately and go through an evaluation/application process for study abroad or is it a “you sign up and you’re in” sort of thing?
does your major have such a heavy/hard core major map over 4 yr that you’ll have to be strategic in not only WHERE you go, but WHEN you do it and for how long?
Is there extra tuition that you have to pay in order to participate in study abroad? if yes, are there scholarships available for it? Is it affordable?
Do you also want/need to be able to get some internships in before you graduate from college? If yes, how will you juggle that schedule-wise with required classes to graduate on time + study abroad?
will the classes you take while abroad automatically be accepted by your home college for graduation?
D24 is at UAH. Here is what she has said about classes.
Calc 1 - really likes the professor and is taking her for calc 2 next semester. She is good at math but doesn’t really enjoy classes in it, so I’m happy she is not complaining. She had IB Math IA HL in high school, so a little calc but not a lot. She seems to be doing my well and learning it well
Honors English - she says it’s fine. She is happy she will be done with English classes after this. She is a good writer and is doing fine in the class. She had a big group project and her group worked out well. It was a good experience.
Drawing - her first ever art class. She likes to draw but found this boring. She is ready to move on.
Honors seminar on the 2024 election - she very much enjoyed this class and learning about elections, voter turnout, etc. just 1 credit hour but she’s glad she took it.
Intro to honors - your basic intro to college class. Not much feedback.
Computing - this covered Matlab, python and excel. She never really programmed much before and enjoyed this. She liked her professor and would take him again. I think she likes talking through assignments with her dad too.
Thank you for pointing out this chart’s existence. Seems rather important, to say the least. My S24 is also at WashU and blithely seems to think that he’ll be studying abroad easy-peasy, no schedule problemos for him, trip of a lifetime can’t wait etc etc! He’s got a different major but I’m going to suggest he ask his advisor ASAP if such a chart exists for his school.
On the topic of med school and requirements, my son mentioned he might be interested in med school. Not a huge leap bc he’s planning to major in bio w/neuroscience focus, but still a surprise bc he’d never expressed interest before (he’s always said he wants a PhD…now maybe MD/PhD).
But then he said to get into a “top” med school, he heard he’d need 500 shadow hours in addition to hundreds of hours in a research lab.
Does anyone know if this is even remotely true? He’s got a research position lined up but altogether that seems like a TON of hours. My husband and I know nothing about med school - no doctors on either side.
And I do understand he doesn’t need to go to a “top” school to become a doctor…just trying to understand if that amount of hours is truly what’s expected.
Study Abroad was very important to my daughter (even before choosing her college). I can say for certain that going to a large powerhouse state school gives you great, flexible options for study abroad credit (if you are still helping your child choose a school).
Given that her entire first year was online and off-campus (thanks, Covid) and she was only six weeks in to her first time experience in the dorms…she didn’t feel ready to do it then. It was a huge disappointment, and one that could have been avoided with some sort of major-specific pathways chart.