Parents of the HS Class of 2024 (Part 2)

I’ll let @WayOutWestMom comment on this. He will be submitting both grades and some medical schools will view a second take of the same course as grade grubbing. This is not recommended.

You can start a thread about this in the premed forum here. That will get you responses from folks whose kids are doctors, some actual doctors, and some others knowledgable about the medical school application process.

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And I’ll add…one B grade is not going to tank a student’s chances of getting accepted to medical school. Retaking a B grade would certainly be viewed as grade grubbing. @WayOutWestMom

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What @thumper1 said.

One B is not going to keep anyone out of med school. (Heck, even an F or two or three won’t keep one out of med school.)

Retaking a B grade will be viewed as unnecessary perfectionism and grade grubbing. Both are undesirable traits in pre-meds and will call into question whether the student has good judgment.

Also as mentioned above, all college level grades MUST be reported when applying so adcomms will see both the original grade and the retake grade. Both will be included in all GPA calculations. (essentially averaging the 2 grades)

The only classes that pre meds should retake are courses in which they earned a C- or below. C- and below are not considered passing grades and are not accepted by med schools as fulfilling admission requirements.

The advice for students who got Cs or Bs is to accept it, move on to harder classes and do better next time.

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Your posts are always so helpful and very much appreciated. Could I please fact check something I read on my child’s college pre-med group.

They stated that all pre-med requirements should be taken at said college, and classes taken elsewhere, and even classes at their own college over summer are viewed less favorably. Is this true?

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nm.

Part of that is the college trying to maximize the number classes your child pays them for. :grin:

The truth is a little less black and white.

Adcomms don’t especially care where students take their pre-reqs classes long as the pre-reqs are mostly done at a 4 year college. CC classes are considered weaker classes/grades than those taken at a 4 year. So a student attending a 4 year college probably shouldn’t take a summer CC class to fulfill a pre-req. (EXCEPTION: If the student has a good reason they can articulate to the adcomm–like a change in major so they need to catch up so they can graduate on time. Or a late change to pre-med. Or having a financial need to graduate early…)

Also, if the college your child attends has a reputation for a killer class (like OChem or physics) and your child takes it somewhere else—then it looks like your child is avoiding a certain class or teacher and seeking an easier way out. Adcomms don’t like this. It’s perceived as lazy and avoidant. Not traits they want in a student.

Summer classes are Ok, with the caveat is that often summer school classes are condensed versions of the regular semester-length class that omit or skip over certain topics and will require more self-study when prepping for the MCAT. Some adcomms at some med schools may consider summer classes, esp summer classes taken at other one’s home institution, to be weaker grades. But this is not a deal maker or breaker. It’s looked at in context and as part of the larger picture. Now if your child has a pattern of avoiding tough classes at their home school and taking classes elsewhere–this is something that the adcomm may consider.

The bigger issue w/r/t med school is whether the health professions advising office at your child’s college will still write a recommendation letter for a student who take pre-reqs elsewhere and whether HP Office will “downgrade” their rec for students who take pre-reqs elsewhere. Check this first before making any decisions.

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I’m happy to hear the advice to not retake C’s and B’s, and to instead rebound and do better in a higher level class. I’m also glad grade grubbing and gaming and avoiding classes to take easier elsewhere to pad gpa is discouraged. This all seems very wise and sensical. Factoring in cost, amount of clinical/volunteer hours needed to be competitive, new norm of many needing gap years, glad it’s a climate of learn from it and move on.

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A slight correction: the new norm is to take one or two gap years, not “many”.

Because the med school application cycle is so long, (students apply in May/June to start med school 15 months later), a student would need to apply at the end of their junior year to matriculate into med school without a gap year. Since most students apply after graduation, they automatically have a gap year during the application cycle. Some students choose to take an extra gap year to strengthen their CV by working in clinical settings or to earn some money to help defray the cost of an application cycle and the relocation costs of moving for med school.

(And, boy, do I have to say the cost of an application cycle has decreased markedly since Covid and the advent of video interviews. When my girls were applying, students were expected to skip classes or take unpaid leave from work–often on very short notice-- and fly/drive all over the country to interview in person. All those plane tickets and hotel rooms added hundreds of $$ to the cost of an application cycle. Hotels because interviews were an all-day program that started at 8 am and lasted until 4pm. Interview day included campus tours, a lunch often with current med students or faculty hosts, information and financial aid sessions as well as the 2 or 3 scheduled interviews. Skipping info sessions, luncheon or tours was a big no-no with non-attendance reported back to the adcomm. )

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Yes, I meant many more students than past seem to be taking gap years, not that they are taking many years (agree 1-2).

The timeline part makes my head spin for some reason. Nice to hear something positive on cost being lower.

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us! :raised_hands:

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On the subject of med school & health professions grad school, I mentioned to D24 how there are several types of health professions that one could qualify to apply for grad school loan repayment in exchange for 2 years of service at an RHC (rural health clinic) or FQHC (federally qualified health center). There’s a federal program, an Indian Health Service program, and our state has a state-run one also. Our state does allow you to apply for and be accepted to both, but if you’re accepted to both, you can’t have your 2 yr of service count for both the state and federal program at the same time. And the programs also allow you to, for example, extend your service by an extra year in exchange for an additional $X of loan repayment paid off.

Anyway, D24 said, “Oh, I absolutely would apply for those. $50-65k of grad loans paid off for 2 yr of work? Sign me up. I’ll do that.” :slight_smile: Our in-state program gives applicants a leg up if they’ve lived in the state for the last 12 months. And you also get extra bonus points if you also graduated from grad school in state.

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In some ways this year feels like college for the first time, I have little memory of how things worked. The past two mornings I’ve read panicked parents on college page asking about how to get out of an exam. I had no idea you sat for it in spring or if during spring semester than next December if you’re sick. Mine has all exams Thursday and Friday, just eager to get done with at this point. Only had a fraction of a second of hmm he could improve math over the next semester (kidding).

Is this sick policy at other schools too? I’m going to be sweating finals week more now knowing this, especially winter as so many come back sick after Thanksgiving spreading it around.

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I also just learned about that when my S24 mentioned Monday night that if for some reason he missed his Chem final Tuesday morning (spoiler: he did not), he would get an Incomplete and then take it next year (this class is only offered in the Fall term).

Incidentally, we got him back last night, and it was great, of course. He seemed a little wired and chatty at first, then he went upstairs and we have not seen him again yet. Pretty sure he is crashing.

I note he is pretty good at self-assessment, and he admitted he thinks he mishandled Finals week. Basically took off a couple days when he was procrastinating, then had to cram more right before finals and also to get in one paper. He understands that led to more stress than necessary, and is resolved to handle it differently going forward.

Just yet another illustration that basically all these kids have things to learn when making this transition.

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Great point on classes only offered once a year!

I’m thankful S24 is much like yours with strong self-assessment. First instinct is to assess what worked and what didn’t, and what they’re going to do differently going forward. I attribute much of his academic success to this way of thinking.

I wish so badly my youngest had a fraction of this in her, but she just isn’t wired the same.

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S24 has been home for a week and it’s been so nice to have him home. He’s been sharing a lot with us about his planned major, apps for research opportunities this summer, friends, social life, clubs. He’s most excited about his research position in a lab. He loves the people (especially his mentor, the lab head) and the work, and he is taking a course over break to better equip him to make meaningful contributions to the research.

He just got his final grades for his first term and did very well. He took several courses that required a lot of writing. He told us that while they were a lot of work, they weren’t difficult…as long as he put in the work, which he did. He said his courses next term will be harder, so we will see how that goes.

Hope everyone enjoys their kids over break!

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I have no idea what the sick policy is when it comes to final exams for my kid’s college.

I naively assumed a make-up day for all like high school. Actually I didn’t think of it all until I read the panicked posts.

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All of that sounds very familiar, including that you could be talking about our own D30. We are working with her to develop better habits, but similarly I am not sure she will ever get to the same mindset as our S24.

And to be fair, what I will generously call a lack of inclination to rush to blame herself has its advantages. Like she has settled into playing goalie for a couple sports, and I am not sure S24 could have done that, at least not so comfortably. Any shots that get past her just don’t weigh on her, and in that context that is a good attitude.

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And to be fair, what I will generously call a lack of inclination to rush to blame herself has its advantages

I love your way with words and this gave me a big laugh. This is so spot on! I can almost forget how infuriating it is in the moment. You’re right though, they are some positives to it.

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D24 is already packed (typical) for our trip to Bloomington-Normal, Illinois to see my brother. We leave in a couple of hours. D24 reports that her friends (remember, mostly from the South) don’t believe that “Normal, Illinois” is a real place, and they make her show it to them on her phone. Even better, my husband lived in Normal for several years during his childhood. Some of my best friends are Midwestern, and I really appreciate the cultural differences that pop up with us–especially with the Wisconsinites. I hope D24 has a good time. She is finally living the social life she always wanted, and so I know that it is a tiny sacrifice to hang out with the old people instead of making more social playdates. She’s also lucky that she goes to the state university, so a lot of her new friends are within driving distance. I’ll report on her experience afterward! I know my brother will assist me in introducing her to some Midwestern culture.

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I just got pinged on a Pomona thread and thought I’d stop by.

(1) D24 is doing well at Pomona and is back home for the break, trying to figure out whether she’ll get a temporary job and which local gym to join.

(2) Man, CC is super slow these days. I remember the Williams ED thread last year being hundreds of posts long. This year there are only 8 posts. I also recall a lot more action on the other threads about this college vs. that college. Were we just the peak of helicopter parenting or is something else going on? :wink:

(3) I hope everyone is well. Happy holidays!

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