“My advise is to apply to two Ivies, and 2 top notch others, and two above average schools and then go from there. Best of luck to you.”
See, this is the part I don’t get. Why not just advise him to apply to 4 (or however many) top notch schools? Why “2 of them in this particular athletic league and 2 not”?
@Pizzagirl Because maybe there are better things to do with one’s life than apply to every single college on the top 20-50 list?
@albert69, I think what PG was saying wasn’t that 4 was an inadequate number (although it most likely is), but rathert why necessarily “Ivy” instead of just elite institutions, in general.
@vandyeyes Oh, you’re right; sorry @Pizzagirl
My daughter used to say the same thing when she was in 12th grade. She went to a private high school and her counselor helped her pick the usual mix of out of reach, reach and safety schools. When she was waiting for the admission results, she kept saying she wanted to go to a state school but she felt pressure from us (her parents), to attend a top tier school. We did not appreciate these accusations. She is very very smart, and we felt she would thrive in a challenging environment (she was bored in many classes in school). We told her she could choose where to go, once the results came in. Fast forward a few months - the notifications started coming in and she didn’t seem particularly thrilled that she got into the state schools. I clearly remember the day when the Ivys were going to declare the results (all at once, at 5 pm in the afternoon), she blurted out, “I better get into one of them - I don’t want to attend these others”. I was really taken aback. She got her wish that afternoon and did not take a second to post on Facebook, that she was attending one particular Ivy. She loved her four years there and it was the perfect school for her. I realized that she really did not know what she wanted, until she had to make the choice. As another poster recommended, have your son apply to a range of schools and see which ones accept him. Then go visit them and decide. The perspective is very different at that point. Good luck!
Just curious, those of you with children that were accepted to Ivies, did they “demonstrate interest”, i.e., build relationship with counselors, send supplemental info, visit school multiple times? Do the Ivies keep track of this sort of thing? I have a very smart daughter who is a sophomore and depending on her scores she may have a shot at an Ivy or similar school. Just looking for some input.
This varies by college, and there are websites that list importance factors. But my sense is that it’s not a big deal at Ivy/similar. My advise is to do some fact finding missions,without too much concern about “demonstrate interest”.
Advice from a senior in a similar situation: I could probably get into an Ivy league school if I wanted, however, I just didn’t want to. I am Catholic, and wanted a university that would help me not just get a degree, but also to grow in my faith and passion for social justice. The GPA factor is true, it will be more beneficial to be one of the best students in my grade along with opportunities that come along with that, than to be average at a top school. Already, I have benefited from applying to school with an average GPA of 3.5 and ACT of 29. I was given a huge scholarship and am waiting to hear back if I got a full ride, I applied for the Honors program, and I applied for a special program that gives money for research and great opportunities for internships and study abroad to students in the college of arts and sciences. At an Ivy league, I would just be one great students among many. Although my parents encouraged me to apply to at least one, they supported my decision 
If I were you, I would listen to the reasons my son gives, and ultimately support him. He is going to do great and succeed in life whether of not he goes to an Ivy League, but in a college he feels is the best fit for him he will be the happiest!
edit to above post btw, I meant 3.8 for the GPA, so although I am not going to an Ivy League I’m sure I’ll do just fine at the school, which has a good reputation and challenging courses. Another reason why I feel more drawn to non Ivy league schools is that I get stressed easily, and taking 8 AP classes at an already very challenging school has made me exhausted! I would rather go to a great college with a good reputation, little to none student debt, and time for me to branch out and join clubs and activities vs a university where I am constantly studying. Good luck with your decision, and in the end, weight all the factors and just decide which college you can see yourself living in and loving fro the next 4 years!
I agree with @gingerroo and the others that expressed the same opinion…your son is destined for success no matter where he goes and he needs to be happy. You are a great parent for listening and trying to help him figure this out because at 17 they truly don’t really know what is right for them! Sounds like your communication is strong and I am confident it will all work out great in the end for all of you. Congrats for having such a bright child and enjoy this last year with him!
Talk about first world problems…
OP, I know you’ve probably abandoned this thread, but if money isn’t a concern, you need to let your son make these decisions. The last thing you want is to receive backlash from him 4 years from now if he isn’t happy. And also, I didn’t see anyone mention this, but if you are comfortable taking on a massive amount of debt, think about what you are doing to your younger child. Is s/he supposed to suffer because Mommy and Daddy decided to take out $500,000 in loans for their older sibling’s undergraduate and graduate education? Be considerate.
@CaliCash The OP hasn’t abandoned the thread yet, they make about one post per day in response to everyone.
That kid knows what he’s doing. It’d be better for the son to go use an NMF scholarship or whatever and go to a goo non-Ivy school, stand out and then go to HYPMS for GRAD school.
Going to HYPMS as an undergrad is tough but not impossible. Going as a GRAD student is far more impressive.
The impressiveness of graduate programs depends on the department in question. Where you get your PhD counts, but not in the way you might think.
“Going to HYPMS as an undergrad is tough but not impossible. Going as a GRAD student is far more impressive.”
We can extend that to: Going as tenure-track faculty is most impressive.
You guys might be right, but I have personally witnessed students having an easier time getting into Ivies for grad school than undergrad. Myself included. Got into Columbia’s MBA program but not as an undergrad, and that was with slightly above average college grades and GMAT. My cousin got into Princeton’s graduate engineering program but not undergrad. So not saying that it isn’t very impressive having a graduate degree from an Ivy or the equivalent, but I still feel like that undergrad from an Ivy is the tougher goal, not that it being more difficult to get in makes it more impressive, but I thought it was worth noting.
Grad programs are so varied that it doesn’t make sense to compare them to undergrad. Some grad programs are pretty much cash cows for the university and are not that hard to get admitted to. Others are extremely difficult. And they use different criteria, so some people might get into MIT for undergrad, but not for grad school, and for other people the exact opposite might happen, even for the same program. I don’t know how relevant this is to the OP though, since anyone who would feel “miserable” being average would want to stay far away from most grad programs at HYPMS.
Op,
Your son is correct about his points 1,2,3.
I’m sure that you have read the results stats on any or all of a particular selective college here on the cc forums. If so, you realize that it looks like a lottery. I would have him do what he wishes, but also ask him to complete a few “parent wish” apps, maybe one top 10 school, one top 20 school, just to satisfy you. If he gets in, then then can visit and evaluate the choice later. But frankly, he is correct with all of his assessments.
I just wanted to note that I think this is a pretty astute question. The answer isn’t simple. There are hard and easy classes, and good and bad classes, at all schools.
I do think that, on average, classes at highly selective schools are “harder” in certain respects–they do tend to move at a faster pace, and higher levels of writing ability are expected. They often have a lot of reading. However, they may not seem “hard” to the students in them, because those students are able to do challenging work. As far as “better,” highly selective schools have a lot a very good professors, but even more importantly, they have a lot of very good students, and this alone makes a lot of classes better–especially classes with a lot of discussion.
To tie this back to the OP’s son, as others have noted, a lot depends on the student’s personality. How is he going to react when he gets the first B in his academic career? This happens to many–probably most–students who go to highly selective schools. On the other hand, how much is he motivated by being around other smart, motivated kids? This factor is not absent in less selective schools, but it’s a paramount feature at the most selective.
@gingeroo you seem like you are way ahead of this game already-good for you making your decision knowing who you are and what you want-and good for your parents for giving you the freedom to make that choice.
I hope the OP is as impressed by you and your decision process as I am! 