<p>violadad:</p>
<p>I didn’t know that about the Marine band (obliged to only that duty) - thanks for posting. I’ve seen them a few times and they are really good.</p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad- You’re welcome. The quality of the musicians is incredible. Many have studied at top conservatories including Juilliard, Curtis, Peabody, Indiana, etc. Many have already held orchestra chairs prior to joining “The President’s Own”. </p>
<p>They offer free concerts on the grounds of the barracks, and also tour nationally. I believe the schedules for both are on their website.</p>
<p>It is a highly sought after gig for many professional musicians. The vetting process and background checks required because of necessary security clearances make it even a more harrowing audition experience than auditioning for the NY Philharmonic, Cleveland, Philly, or any major orchestra.</p>
<p>Our S was crazy about all things military from a very young age. He never “got over it”. Since he was always a great student we supported his military aspirations with the understanding that his best course would be to go to college first and then the military. He did lots of research during high school (even checking on retirement benefits,lol) and decided in his jr. year that he woud go Navy. He is now a college junior on a NROTC scholarship.
We have always supported his choice/decision knowing that it was something he had been focused on for quite a while.</p>
<p>Sarahsmom; you see it as a nightmare; while others see it as one of the most honorable and selfless acts a person can perform. To put their life on the line, if necessary, for an entire nation and a way of life.</p>
<p>Now, if you mean it’s a nightmare because as a parent you hate to think of the idea of your son or daughter possibly being killed; then that is understandable. That indeed is a nightmare. If you think it’s a nightmare because you think of the military as a waste of human life or similar reason, then that is a very selfish and ignorant position. Learn something about history. Realize that from the founding of our country until now, we are where we are at mainly because of the military. If you don’t agree or don’t want to believe that, then move away. Again, this is only an assumption. You could very well just be worried about your child’s safety. That is understandable. </p>
<p>From this point on, these comments aren’t directed at you. They are more for those who look down at the military or military service as a career. There are plenty of ignorant people; especially those who “Think” they are intelligent, who rationalize the military. They’ll pick one war or one battle here or there and say that it was a good thing. Then they’ll say that they support the troops but not the president. And the list goes on. As someone who has made that decision, I can honestly say that there is no such thing as a just war. Unfortunately, not everyone in the world thinks the same way. Sometimes it is necessary to exert force to maintain a greater peace. Just like it is necessary sometimes to discipline a child, employee, etc… That is why we have a department of DEFENSE and not a department of OFFENSE. </p>
<p>Some may not always agree with the politics that have lead to a military engagement, but that has nothing to do with the military or serving our country. If you want to protest, then vote out the elected officials. But even then, no matter who you vote in or vote out, there will always be a need for the military. At least until technology evolves to the point where all offensive measures can be neutralized with a defensive measure immediately. At that point, it will no longer be advantageous to be offensive. Until then however, we need a military. Unfortunately, the main reason soldiers/sailors/airmen die in combat is because of the politicians. Some must die, that is regrettable. Unfortunately, more die because the politicians won’t let the military do the job they know how to do.</p>
<p>The military members and their occupation are similar to being a doctor, religious leader, scientist, policeman, fireman, etc… It is a necessity, yet not for everyone. Everyone can’t, nor should they, be a fireman. Neither should everyone be in the military. I thank those who have been, are, or some day will be in the military. This has nothing to do with my service. This has to do with history and our future. We are here today, speaking as we are, as free as we are, all because of our military.</p>
<p>Christcorp: I beg your pardon if my post made it seem as if I don’t respect those who serve or that I think the military is not an honorable profession. However, it’s a stretch to say that because a country needs a military that we must support our president or the wars our officials choose to engage us in.</p>
<p>Well said, Christcorp. And thank you.</p>
<p>Mythmom; I haven’t seen you say anything wrong with your posts. No complaints here. Matter of fact, I was going to comment on your last post about many of those you know who were in the military as being women. I wanted to apologize for my first post sounding as if I referred only to men in the military. I was reading the posts, and one post mentioned their son. I mistakenly associated that with the original poster. There have been, are, and will be many brave women in the military doing many of the same jobs and at the same risks as men. I have the utmost respect for these women.</p>
<p>As far as your comment about supporting the president in wars we are engaged in; or in protesting him/her. You have that right. And by all means exercise that right. Unfortunately, most people don’t know how to properly protest a war. “Yes, there is a way to properly protest a war”. 1st; realize. We as military members have sworn an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Officers appointed over us. We take this oath because we have faith in them; trust them; and realize that we don’t always know the big picture and therefore must have a level of faith. That is the same in any corporation or business with a large group of people. With the military, it is that much more important because lives are at risk. </p>
<p>2nd; Just like we don’t get to choose WHICH Americans we will fight for to preserve their rights, neither should the American people choose which time to support the President. Yes, there are sometimes that I wonder why the hell am I risking my life for certain people. The very fact that they are spouting such crap from their mouth about the military, president, etc… “Baby killers” etc… Yet, it is the very freedom that we risk our live for that allows them to say these things about the military and the President. In other words; if I’m going to risk my life; and the other men and women are going to risk their lives; and we are doing it for ALL AMERICANS, whether we agree with what you say, believe, protest, etc… Then all I ask in return is that you support the ENTIRE military once we are engaged in a battle/confrontation/war/etc… That includes the President. He is our commander in chief. As such, he is just as much of the military as we are. You can’t support the military if you don’t support the president. Even the opposite party of congress doesn’t do that. If they approve going to war, or similar, then they all support the president.</p>
<p>Now, if you don’t like how the military is being used in a war, then vote for a new Commander in Chief at the next election. That is acceptable. If you want to debate the president prior to a military engagement, that too is fine. But once the engagement starts, I expect and actually I DEMAND, that you not only support the military, but also their commander; the president. With today’s modern technology of communications, the news media has become the biggest threat to our military and it’s success. The media is the second main reason more military members die than needs to. The reason WWI and WWII were considered much more of a success than Korea, Vietnam, Gulf war, etc… is because the media wasn’t as involved; therefor the American People weren’t as mislead; thus the politicians were mainly able to let the military do their job; and thus end the battles sooner.</p>
<p>Not to trivialize war and battles, but it’s similar to a High School Football or Soccer game. There are all these sideline quarterbacks (Parents) who have no idea on how to coach or design a strategy, yet they second guess every play the coach makes. They haven’t seen the game films of the opposing team like the coach has. They haven’t had the experience of seeing each player at practice and their teamwork capabilities. Yet, on game night, they think they know better than the coach. Well, the same goes with the military.Too many people criticizing the president and the military as though they know better how to handle it. Most people don’t know anything about politics, economics, military warfare, terrorism, etc… Yet, they ***** and complain as if they did. </p>
<p>The worst of these are in the college/university environment among professors and their students. They think they are educated. Sorry, but these students are that much more mature than they were when they were in our homes, in their beds, as our teenagers. And the professors aren’t much better. (I have taught college)( College/universities are a very sterile environment where there are too many missing variables. It isn’t the real world. Matter of fact; if I could make a rule about higher education, it would be that a person can’t teach at the college or university level until they have at least 10 years working for a private company doing the job that they are going to teach. </p>
<p>So, If a person says they “Support the Troops”; then we DEMAND that you support the president. He is one of the troops, our commander, and the coach of this team. Just like the kids at the football game doesn’t like hearing their parents ***** at the coach from the sidelines about how the game is going and his/her coaching abilities; we don’t like hearing it from any of you about the President either. I don’t speak for everyone, but this topic has come up A LOT in the military and that is the general consensus. If you support us, then tell congress to back the hell off and let the military do their job. Stop being so damn politically correct.</p>
<p>Now, is that to say that every military person always agrees with the president, the congress, or the officers appointed over us. Hell no. But we too have the right and freedom to vote. While probably more than 50% of the military probably falls into the category of being a conservative, that doesn’t mean we vote blindly for a republican. We have just as spirited debates as anyone else has. But we have faith. Just like some have faith in god, their parents, their spouse, etc… we have faith in our chain of command. It isn’t perfect, but generally speaking it works pretty damn well. We have a way to address situations we don’t think are right. We are allowed to make our own decisions; at our level of responsibility. If we disagree, we follow our orders, and then after that portion is over and time is more available, we are free to discuss it with those above us. But when time isn’t available for asking why, we don’t. We have faith in those who are looking at the big picture. We do this because in our eyes, the biggest picture is that the citizens of the United States remain free to enjoy the rights and liberties that our forefathers and those in the military before us fought and died for to provide and secure for us.</p>
<p>Mythmom; non of this is directed to you exclusively. As I said; I don’t think that you said anything that is wrong. You are totally free to express your opinion. No complaints here. My comments were for people in general. Especially those who say that they support the troops but not the president. Sorry, but that’s not one most in the military can handle. As young boys and girls, who most played a sport at one time or another, we all knew that we needed a coach. When those say that they support us but not our coach, then you are telling me that we can’t win. We are a team. That means the coaches also.</p>
<p>Christcorp, what a sanctimonious and hypocritical statement. You say that we can express a difference of opinion because of the sacrifices of our military, but in the same breath, you say that those who may believe certain things about that military are ignorant and should leave. That statement does not honor our military - it denigrates what you say they fight for. Those who hold opinions that are anathema to yours should be banished? And please reread your statement to the effect that becoming an enlisted man is a waste of talent and achievement. How many have died for your right to state that?</p>
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<p>Christcorp, I admire you for taking the time to post what you have. And for your service. I am sure you will get all sorts of grief on these boards from just the sorts of people you described above…hang in there. </p>
<p>Cartera, Christcorp WAS an enlisted man, I believe. What to you seems to be “sanctimonious” to me sounds founded in direct personal experience. </p>
<p>I am not going to engage in debate here. But I do want to express supoort for Christcorp and others in our military…</p>
<p>Cartera; I don’t mean to say anything that is hypocritical. My point was that when a person says they “Support the troops” but they don’t “Support the president” that they are the ones being hypocritical. Even though I didn’t use that word. The president is the commander and chief of the military. FWIW, I say the same thing, and expressed it, for parents who attend their children’s sporting events and criticize the coach yet pretend to support the players. The coach is very much part of that same team.</p>
<p>As far as saying a person should leave; my only reference to that was to anyone who doesn’t believe that the military is the reason that they have the rights that they do. I should have expanded that statement by saying; “Leave and try living in another country”. (Not leave the forum). I have lived/worked/visited 14 countries. There are many liberties; including our freedom of speech that many take for granted here. Yet they don’t want to recognize the fact; yes fact; that it’s the sacrifices of the military that gives them that right that they take for granted. I also mentioned that in the military we don’t pick and choose the people that should have rights. We serve for all citizens. So you are free to express anything you want to. When I use words like; “Don’t”, “Shouldn’t”, etc… in reference to what another person can say, it isn’t in the context of you being “Allowed” to say or express yourself. It’s in the context of expecting me to “Respect” what you say. </p>
<p>I respect your right to say anything you want. That doesn’t mean I have to respect what you say. If you supports the troops and the president; but you disagree with certain policies; and as such decide to exercise your right to vote him out of office; then I respect that. I don’t have to agree with you, but I still respect it. If your say that you support the troops, but you don’t support the president or you don’t support a military engagement we are in; I don’t respect that. That isn’t hypocritical. That doesn’t mean you still can’t say it or believe it, just that I don’t have to respect it. I’ve respected people who were pro-choice and I’ve respected people who were pro-life. I’ve also NOT respected both positions. There is no hypocrisy in any of that.</p>
<p>And becoming an enlisted person is not a bad thing. I was an enlisted person for 21 years. I said that in the case of my son; it would have been a waste of his talents and achievements. He is a natural born leader. He busted his ass his entire school life to excel with a 4.0gpa, #1 class ranking, high act/sat scores, etc… If what he wanted to do was become an enlisted person, he could have used all the “Extra” time he spent attaining those achievements in other areas of interest, work, JROTC, etc… As such, because of his hard work, I believe that he deserves the chance to further his options. If you re-read my first post, I mentioned that options were the key to the OP’s original concern of her child joining the military. I even mentioned that after graduating college, if they still wanted to become an enlisted person, then that was great. it was their choice. Just like my daughter could finish her double major degree, and if she wanted to become the manager at Burger King, that too would be fine. Because she did it as her choice and not because of a lack of options.</p>
<p>Don’t read into any of this more than is there. Not everyone is intended to go to college. Not everyone is intended to join the military. Not everyone who does join the military is intended to be an officer. I know plenty of enlisted people who had college degrees. (I was one of them). My point about a waste of talent and achievements were solely based on my son’s accomplishments in high school and before. He showed the potential to be able to achieve much more; (If he wanted to). Going to the academy and getting a college degree is just that much more options available to him. FWIW, just because you go to the academy doesn’t mean you have to be a commissioned officer. You can resort back to being an enlisted person. It doesn’t really make much sense financially or professionally; (Because of all the work you go through at the academy); but it’s definitely your OPTION. Again, there’s that word.</p>
<p>Anyway, don’t read into what you want it to mean. Just read the contextual clues of the entire post. That is where you will find the meaning.</p>
<p>Chtistcorp: It’s too be expected that we would see this differently. I can say that I want to all LI congress folk before the war to beg them not to invade Iraq. Went with consortium of people. Of course we were unsuccessful. I haven’t taken any political action since, so technically I have followed the strictures you laid down.</p>
<p>However, I can’t support a coach when I think he is off the rail. Your tradition emphasizes loyalty and support; I understand that. My job involves questioning and critical thinking.</p>
<p>I do teach in college and don’t want to be disrespected for that either. I think that we, too, have an important job. Especially because at Communitiy College we teach immigrants, disadvantaged students, those most in need of an education. We do discuss our positions openly.</p>
<p>However, I want to reiterate I would not tolerate any disrespect for service people in my classroom and I bend over backwards to accomodate their training schedules, whatever they need to do. I support them 100%.</p>
<p>I do also think it’s appropriate to say I don’t support this war or the policies of this president, even in public.</p>
<p>I guess we’ll have to disagree about that.</p>
<p>My dad was in the OSS in WWII so I have built in respect for the sacrifices you have made and your son and others will make.</p>
<p>mythmom; as I said previously, I don’t see you as having said anything that I don’t respect. Good for you for being politically active. I hope you teach your students the same thing. That too is what the military is about. Not only fighting for the freedoms that we have, but hoping that you exercise those freedoms. If not, then our efforts were in vain. By all means disagree with the President and the policies if that what you feel is right. And when you have the ability to contact your congressman or senator, then by all means do so. And when the time comes, if you don’t want to vote for a particular president or congressman, then exercise your vote for someone else. Good for you. As I said, you must be misunderstanding some of my generalized posts as a personal response. They aren’t, and I’ve said so. If you said something that I disagreed with, I would most definitely mention that specifically. Just as you should me.</p>
<p>It was my response to sarahsmom42 where she said she couldn’t think of a greater nightmare than to have her child come home and say they wanted to join the military. I did give the benefit of the doubt in case she was just speaking as a parent who would be worried of their child going off to war and their safety. That definitely is a nightmare for any parent. But just in case she believed it would be a nightmare because of her opinion of military personnel and their service, as is the case for many people, that is why I elaborated. Again, I respect everything you have said. There’s nothing for you to have to clarify. I definitely have no complaints with what you have said.</p>
<p>Guys, this isn’t a thread to argue about whether the military is right or not. I just want to know what you guys would say to your kids. Thanks.</p>
<p>I would drug mine in the middle of the night and take him or her to Canada. I’m certain that is not the least bit helpful to you, but that is how strongly I feel about it.</p>
<p>Ok</p>
<p>I would run screaming from the room–not because there is something wrong with the military, necessarily–though it would be totally wrong for MY kid–for others it might be great–but because of the current war–lives lost in vain, in my opinion–just my opinion. I also notice the homeless people who are so often Vietnam vets. We need to figure out a better way to be human. And we don’t take good care of our vets–this is shameful as well.</p>
<p>dank08; you’ve have plenty of responses on what we would say to our kids. Did you not understand. Most responses mentioned determining the motive behind such a decision. Determine if it was rational. Determine if it was sincere. Determine if it was a reactionary decision. Then, if it was a valid and thought out desire, look at all their options for what’s best for them. Most agreed that there would be nothing wrong with such a statement or decision as long as it was sincere.</p>
<p>There are also a couple of opinions by some who wouldn’t say anything to their kids. They would decide what the kid should do instead of what they choose. They are extremely against their kid serving in the military, so they would take matters into their own hands.</p>
<p>I think that pretty much covers the 2 different positions on how to talk to your kids about such a topic.</p>
<p>Christcorp</p>
<p>I think you’ve summed it up pretty well. I actually would let my kid do whatever he wanted (I think). I would just want him to be informed–and I’m not sure most 18 year olds could imagine what it would be like to be in combat conditions. And though we could hopefully take care of our son no matter what, I don’t think it’s ok that we as a country are letting down our disabled American vets–and we are. But I would still run screaming from the room, I think–in the words of former MN governor Jesse Ventura, “I just gotta be honest.” It’s true that we could lose him in a car accident or to meningitis–somehow losing him to a pointless war seems worse.</p>
<p>dank08:</p>
<p>Now that you’ve seen the various responses and they’re not likely to change much from the one side that would support an informed decision and the other side that would drag the kid kicking and screaming to Canada (although I don’t know why since no one’s being drafted), do you care to elaborate what prompted this question in the first place?</p>
<p>Actually, Canada won’t take Americans who evade a draft anymore, should there be a draft.</p>
<p>My son and daughter would be so inappropriate for this that it wouldn’t even occur to either of them. However, they do both want to serve humanity. One wants to be a Constitutional lawyer and defent the Bill of Rights. She is a Human Rights Major. The other wants to do Doctors Without Borders, which can also be dangerous.</p>
<p>Neither does well with authority at all (I wonder where they get it from) so the armed services would not be happy not to have them. </p>
<p>I am not just being flip. I think people are suited for different things in life.</p>
<p>I agree with bethie, though, and Christcorp. Although it would be extremely difficult for me, I would not try to stop my child from doing what his/her heart insisted was right. It’s not my life.</p>
<p>Having said that, one of D’s best friends at Barnard is a young woman with American and Israeli parents and citizenship. She needs to go to Israel within two years to do her military service or she’ll lose her citizenship. And she’s a girly girl (forgive obnoxious phrase) like my D. Knowing this friend has opening D’s mind some. Always a good thing.</p>
<p>dank - are your parents more of the “let you decide” types or the “drugging and carrying you off into the night” types?</p>