<p>Chedva, you’re probably right, I thought they might send me a private message though, and I know there have been discussions in the past where parents have said that they allow drinking by children-not-their-own in their home.</p>
<p>I did. Maybe cyber police could trace my IP address and figure out who I am.</p>
<p>I have served wine or beer <em>with dinner</em> to a 20-yr-old European exchange student who was living with us (and who could not drive in the US). This kid had graduated from HS, served in the army, and was going to university the next fall. In his home country, he had a job as a bartender in a pub! He never drank more than two glasses at a time, and that only very, very occasionally.</p>
<p>I have never served and would never serve alcohol to any American non-family underage individuals. I haven’t served any alcohol to my S, and have no plans to, although I think the 21 limit is foolish.</p>
<p>DonnaL, it is great that your S felt that he could TELL you about this. I would be FURIOUS though, if If I found out that some idiot served my teen 2 glasses of wine when they knew he was driving. They are putting his life and his future at risk. I think that you should have a conversation with them about it. And “well, he could have refused” is not an acceptable excuse. HE is a kid. THEY are the adults. Managing to have the conversation without destroying your son’s willingness to tell you will be the trick.</p>
<p>What this makes me think about, though, is whether he thought it was okay to drink at their house because he had been served at home. That definitely is something <em>I</em> need to process…</p>
<p>Oldfort, I wish you would reconsider your plan to serve wine to a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds. Is it really necessary?</p>
<p>In my state, you may serve your own child alcohol inside your home; however, if you serve or provide alcohol to an underage minor that’s not your child, it’s a fourth degree felony. </p>
<p>(One of older D’s friends ended up in court for hosting a party at her apartment where she allowed her 17 year old sister to drink beer. The party got loud and when the cops arrived, they checked everyone’s IDs. Host’s 17 year old sister got caught. She got a MIP and her sister got a court date for a felony charge.)</p>
<p>I’ve allowed both my D’s to have a glass of wine with holiday meals since they were 16–but only if they were not going anywhere for the rest of the evening.</p>
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<p>I’m trying to figure out myself if there’s any way to speak to these parents without destroying my son’s willingness to tell me things. I’ve always, always made it clear to him that he can tell me <em>anything,</em> and that I’d be far more upset to find out that he hadn’t told me something than I’d be with whatever he told me. Which is why I think he does trust me enough to tell me just about everything important that goes on with himself and his friends. According to him, almost none of his friends talk to their parents, or are as close to their parents, as he is to me (and, in fact, to my ex). And that’s why I know about everything from the half-pack of cigarettes he smoked in 9th grade (he didn’t like it, thank God), to the parties he’s been at where kids have offered him pot, to the names of the two kids who’ve been the primary drug dealers in his class for years, to the names of the group of 12 “druggies” in his class, and the names of all the kids who like to “party” (i.e., to drink). (Each of those two groups – there’s some overlap – took out its own separate ad in the yearbook that just came out, complete with names and photos. A supposedly funny “in-joke”)</p>
<p>The girl whose party it was is not a drug or alcohol person. He’s been in the same class with her since kindergarten, although she isn’t a close friend and I don’t know her parents personally. When I asked him how her parents could have done such a thing, his explanation was, well, they’re Italian and they serve wine at home to their kids at meals; they were just being hospitable. Sorry, I don’t buy it. Not when my son had a car there. </p>
<p>I’m not exactly a confrontational person (despite being a lawyer!), and the idea of actually calling these people up is excruciating to me. Nor am I going to confront them at the graduation on Friday! So I was thinking of maybe sending them a note, taking a non-hostile tone and simply put it in the form of a request that they not do anything similar again. </p>
<p>By the way, I don’t, in fact, really serve wine to him at home on any regular basis – maybe a sip or two once in a while, not even a full glass except for champagne at New Year’s. At restaurants, or at parties at the houses of friends of mine, he’ll ask me sometimes if he can have some wine. Sometimes I’ll say yes, more often no, but I’ve never let him have more than one glass. Which is why the two glasses surprised me and concerned me (even apart from the driving issue), since I know what two glasses of wine do to me – they make me quite tipsy, and very sleepy. As I said, he’s basically the same size as I am.</p>
<p>At least he doesn’t like the taste of beer. I think he gets that from me. I always disliked beer, no matter how often I tried it in college (back when the drinking age was 18).</p>
<p>I would be interested in knowing oldfort’s reasoning, mostly so I can convince my mom to do the same. Just kidding. Honestly, I understand my mom’s position, liability aside, what would she be saying to me and my friends, that it’s fine to break the law?</p>
<p>What’s up oldfort?</p>
<p>My husband is a great cook, a gourmet cook, as a matter of fact. As a great chef, he is great at pairing off wine with food. My daughter’s friends (I have known these girls and mothers since grade school) have talked about having a great meal cooked by my husband. We just thought it would be an elegant evening dinner out on our deck served by us for her birthday. The amount of wine we will serve would be a tenth of what those kids would consume in college normally.</p>
<p>FYI - this is the first time we are doing this, and it just so happened someone posted this thread. I am not one to have teenagers to come over to my house on weekends and allow them to drink at my house.</p>
<p>At home, my husband always serve nice wine and champagne. The girls have had a glass of wine on special occassions with us since they were 16. It is not a huge deal for them. The older one doesn’t drink as much in school because they usually serve cheap stuff. Now that she is home, I do not tell her how much wine she could have when we have it with dinner. Most of the time when it’s offered, she will say no, or just sip a glass.</p>
<p>We have also taken our girls to clubs at various cities(NYC, HKG, Barcelona) since they were 15 or 16. At this point it is also not a big deal to our older daughter to go club/bar hopping. We show them how to behave and what to watch out for when they are out, so someday when they are out by themselves they would know what to do.(No, they have not been out by themselves yet) They know, by now, when they are asked, “Are you on the list?” the answer is always “yes.”:)</p>
<p>“I understand my mom’s position, liability aside, what would she be saying to me and my friends, that it’s fine to break the law?”</p>
<p>Well, yes, sometimes it IS fine to break the law. Those times are few and far between, but my mother did not look up the local law in each state we visited before allowing me to have a glass of wine at a holiday dinner when I was 20, and I think there’s nothing wrong with that. Both the silliness of the law and the vanishingly small odds of being caught/prosecuted – not to mention the piddling penalties if she WERE ticketed – were factors in that decision.</p>
<p>The lesson isn’t that the law doesn’t matter. It’s that adults make their own decisions about right and wrong and about which risks are acceptable.</p>
<p>My parents let me have wine in Europe where it’s legal from 16.</p>
<p>Olfort, I guess what I wonder is if something happened to one of those girls at your house or on their way home whether their parents would turn on you. It seems like a big risk to me and one I’d never ask my parents to take. Just me, sure I want a little of the great wines with meals but I wouldn’t allow them to take a risk to please my friends at a gourmet dinner, and we have many.</p>
<p>The girls are sleeping over, anyone that’s driving home wouldn’t get served. I manage risk for my firm, so I know what risk I am willing to take on, it’s not for my kids to ask. I am the adult, my kids do not tell me what’s allowed in my house.</p>
<p>Sorry, I didn’t mean any disrespect! Just wanted to understand a renegade position.</p>
<p>I’m with oldfort on this. We have taken a similar approach with our daughter, who is now 19, and with our oversight and guidance she has developed mature, responsible and safe drinking behavior that serves her well in a variety of social circumstances ranging from parties at our house, college social life, to clubbing with trusted friends in Cancun. In contrast, we have observed many of her peers, who did not have the benefit of this approach, run amok with drinking at college once they were no longer under parental scrutiny. In addition, now that our daughter is in college, when we socialize with her and her friends, while we monitor what is occurring, we leave the decision on drinking to them. The reality is that they are living lives where they must routinely exercise independent discretion about alcohol consumption. While we would step in if we thought things were getting out of hand (which we have never had to do), we believe that by showing trust in their judgement when they are with us, we are promoting the exercise of responsible judgement when they are in other social settings.</p>
<p>You THINK you know that your D is making sensible choices when you aren’t around, but in actual fact you only know what she does when you are present. The world is full of parents who <em>think</em> their kids are making sensible choices…and I’m one of them, I hasten to add. </p>
<p>I once discussed this “introducing the kid to civilized and sensible wine drinking with dinner” concept with a friend, who said, “What would you really be accomplishing beyond giving him a taste for it?” I really couldn’t come up with a response. So far, the point has been moot for us. S doesn’t seem to want to drink, and actually has avoided occasions when peers did so. Or so I think. :)</p>
<p>Do I know with 100% certainty 100% of the time that my daughter is making “sensible choices”, of course not, no more so than I know with 100% certainty that 100% of the time that any other family member or friend is making a “sensible choice”. Am I confident with certainty that she is not making irresponsible choices about drinking that put her or anyone else in harms way, yes I am with the same degree of certainty that I can trust myself not to drink to the point of impairment that creates a risk of harm to myself or to others. Do I have confidence that she can discern the differences between different types of social circumstances and tailor her drinking behavior accordingly, yes, to the same extent that I can trust myself to know that if I am having a small dinner party at home I may have that 3rd glass of wine but if I am out at a restaurant I limit myself to 1. </p>
<p>And I am not being naive about this. My comfort level arises out of a wealth of open communication, opportunities to observe her behavior, giving her the opportunity to make mistakes in a safe environment and watching her learn from those mistakes, knowing that she has made smart responsible choices not only when we were present but also when we were not. And this applies not just to drinking behavior but to all facets of developing responsible adult behavior. It’s the entire package that results in in my confidence in her judgment and maturity. It comes from many years of involved parenting fostering open and honest communication, where no topic was taboo (from either of our points of view), in a non-judgmental environment The point is, turning 21 is not a “magic bullet”. My daughter’s maturity, sense of responsibility and judgment at 19 is a whole lot better than many I have seen who are who are much older, technically full “adults”.</p>
<p>As to “giving her a taste” for alcohol, I have seen her decline a drink when she could have partaken more times than she accepts. I’ll go with getting exposed to alcohol in a safe and controlled manner with our oversight any day over a first experience occurring at college surrounded by a bunch of dopes who think that getting tanked is cool now that they are no longer under mommy and daddy’s control.</p>
<p>I don’t think the issue was serving your own child, in most states it’s legal once your child is 18 and I think more parents do this than not, those in my crowd anyway.</p>
<p>The issue is serving other underage kids.</p>
<p>oldfort, I understand your idea of the celebration and I think it’s terrific. I’m also with you on serving your own d - that’s what we do. My d can have what she wants when she’s at home and not driving anywhere afterwards.</p>
<p>But what I don’t understand is this: If you’ve known these girls and their mothers since grade school, why would you not ask these mothers if it’s OK to serve their daughters wine? And if a mother says no, then you don’t do it?</p>
<p>ny hit that on the nose(post 35). The subject the op desires to discuss, as I understand it, is what do parents think/do that encourage underage guests’ drinking in their home- not counting their own child. </p>
<p>I understand now that Op wants to hear from parents who will admit to hosting parties for teens with the specific intent of getting those teens drunk(his post 15)
I am not one of those parents, and not likely to admit it if I were. Op’s not wanting info about raising one’s own child, the legality of drinking, debating the moral difference(if any) between permitting teens a glass of “good wine” at a fine dinner compared to beer and pretzels while watching tv.</p>
<p>Not to beat this one to death, but I will answer Chedva’s question. I asked my daughter to suggest to her friends to let their parents know. These girls are over 18, I think it’s up to them to let their parents know what they are doing. If they should chose not to disclose certain information about their personal life to their parents, it’s not for me to inject. At the same time, as adults (over 18), they should be able to decide whether they want to participate in any “illegal acctivity.” Just because drinking age is 21, it doesn’t mean they are not legally adults at 18.</p>
<p>There’s a material difference between “hosting an underage drinking party” and permitting a young adult who is under 21 to have a drink when at your house for a function with adults of various ages at which alcohol is incidentally served as part of the available refreshments. Parents who permit a minor or even a minor child’s friend to have a drink at a dinner, holiday celebration or special occasion at which the parents, other family members and friends are in attendance can hardly be grouped with parents who procure alcohol for a party consisting of minors. The former involves permitting the minor to participate in the rubric of adult social interaction in a context where alcohol consumption is not the focus; the latter is nothing more than promoting irresponsible underage drinking where the drinking is a primary purpose of the party. </p>
<p>As a general rule, I have not allowed high school students who were not my children to consume alcohol in my home. If the students are in college, I would permit them to make their own decisions albeit with oversight and subject to limitations which I concluded were reasonable under the circumstances and which I would enforce in the unlikely event such was necessary.</p>
<p>There are parents who do serve alcohol at their homes to underage kids. They don’t agree with the 21 law and do not feel that the risks are that high. They are willing to take those risks, is what it comes down to. I have a friend who regularly serves wine with her meals, and she did so even when her kids were underage, and permitted them to imbibe. She asked me if she could offer my son wine when he dined with them, and I told her no.<br>
It is always a risk to serve alcohol to folks, under or over age. If someone gets intoxicated and gets into a high profile accident, believe me, the host and server will get dragged into the mess. If the drinker is underage, the problems become even more severe. To some parents, this is a natural extension of the risk one takes when one ever serves alcohol. They also “trust” the kids who are being served the alcohol. It is always a problem because the possibility does exist that one of your guests are supposed to be staying overnight, slips out, drives, has an accident. But for those who want to assume that risk…well, some do.</p>