Close them all is sadly not the answer for binge drinking events.
@cobrat OK, I guess I need to be more specific and perhaps saying this is “cultural” isn’t enough. I guess I just believe that it comes down to upbringing. Teach your children to be independent thinkers and to be strong enough to withstand/remove themselves from peer pressure. In addition, provide a good home with drinking responsibly and reasonably is promoted. And lastly, always maintain open lines of communication with your children. So when they are hurting, confused, lonely, bullied, ashamed etc. they can still come to you (the parent) for help and advise.
^ maybe it would not stop all of the binge drinking and the treating of woman as objects but it would stop much of it. At least on college campuses and it would take a serious leader to do that at PSU where the culture needs to change. Based on all of the folks coming to the constant denial and defense that PSU has a problem…it would be no small challenge…it is like A form of Nationalism there.
I know…but boys will be boys…
“They’re clubs with Greek Letters but are not in any way related to social fraternities.”
So, take away the greek letters, call them clubs, make them inclusive and clean out all fraternities. There mission and purpose would still exist when banning greek life.
““lift some of the restrictions during parents’ weekend” as a gesture of good will towards the fraternities??”
My guess is because fraternity alum parents want to come back and relive their “glory days” and drink, too? Not sue, but that seems to be a fraternity thing, right?
Ban all frats seems too simplistic to me. Hazing occurs in marching bands, sports, and even in the school newspaper. Some schools have underground frats and other schools have social clubs. At least the IFC is somewhat regulated at some schools. At other schools the clubs are not regulated by the university at all.
To me hazing = bullying. Why haven’t we done a better job to teach our children to treat others with kindness?
I think part of the problem with our youth is they are not held accountable for their actions.
I’m sorry, this just seems so self-righteous to me. But then, I’ve worked with college students for the past 20+ years.
I skimmed through the thread, and wasn’t sure if this had been posted, but after the GMA interview where the frat member spoke out, ABC just reported that another frat member sent him a text stating “nobody likes you anyway”.
At a lot of these universities all the anti-hazing policies and administrative chest- thumping decrying the practice are really just empty gestures. The practice is embedded in our culture and the people who have the power to make changes are turning a blind eye. If you really want to eradicate behavior you impose such harsh consequences that the risk/reward calculation ensures the activity’s demise. That’s never happened.
There could also be federal legislation enacted levying harsh economic penalties on schools for each occurrence. Where is that legislation? Probably won’t see it because so many members of Congress have fraternity affiliations.
There is actually a FratPAC founded in 2005 whose stated purpose is to “protect the fraternity experience.” It exists "to support Greeks running for Congress or to support those in office who value the fraternal experience.” The PAC collects funds from the chapters and individual donors then sprinkles that money on political campaigns of individuals who support fraternities. Last year I think they had $600,000 at their disposal.
I actually think that is good advice from dungareedoll. I wondered earlier in a post why none of those kids called a parent to ask what they should do although I know mine will google first then call for an opinion about stuff. I don’t see as it being self righteous but I don’t think it is ok to blame the parents. People have different parenting styles. I have picked up my kids in the wee hours of the morning (over 21) from a bar because they couldn’t get a taxi or uber and they didn’t want to drive. Would much rather pick up any family member from a bar than pick them up the next morning at the local jail and they all know I feel that way.
Sometimes it is better to teach your kids how to get out of a jam rather than think they won’t get in a jam.
And that only further underscores the degree of depravity and rot in that fraternity and its leadership and judging by the frequency of violations by other fraternities…Penn State U’s leaders.
@Momofthreeboys- AMEN!
I haven’t read this whole thread but I did see the news coverage. This is heartwrenching and my heart breaks for the parents of the young man. I hope that those charged will not be able to plea bargain their way out of this for community service and that the full impact of the law is brought to bear. I certainly hope that they can be charged with criminal manslaughter and depraved indifference if such a statute exists.
Compare this with watching President Obama excepting his “Profile in Courage” award. Someone in that frat house needed to step up and use common sense and human decency and make that 911 call.
Cobrat…that is exactly why the culture needs to change
Sorry clearly meant to type accepting, not excepting.
Agreed. One demonstration of this was how hazing/drinking incidents like this were a rare aberration in the universities in my parents’ society of origin or many international universities.
Getting blitzingly drunk and pulling less than half of what these frats pulled would have meant immediate expulsion on judicial grounds for violating university rules on allowing oneself to drink to that point.
And once one is expelled, one may as well kiss one’s chances of finishing one’s university education and getting that degree goodbye…especially considering there were so many other applicants/advanced students whose educations were disrupted years before by war without the stigma of a judicial expulsion ready to take his/her place.
And if one’s idiotic enough to be blitzingly drunk* to the point of pulling less than half of what these frats pulled in the course of completing one’s 2 years of mandatory military service when my father was serving in the '50s in his country of origin, that meant being subjected to court martial and spending some time in military prison.
Not only is that bad enough due to the fact one’s guarded by MPs who don’t play around and subjected to a much harsher military disciplinary/training regime than regular conscripts, it effectively extended one’s mandatory service time as any time spent in military prison wasn’t counted towards completion of those mandatory 2 years back then. To most conscripts or conscripted officers like my father, one would have to be an idiotic masochist to take such risks for the momentary pleasure with the bottle(s).
- There's also the small detail that conscripts/conscript officers were prohibited from drinking unless the CO of the batallion or higher gave his approval and any such approved drinking was restricted to base under strict supervision of NCOs/Officers in charge. Yes, this meant one was prohibited from drinking outside of one's home even if one's on leave unless they want to be picked up by roving MP patrols with all its attended harsh consequences.
just to clarify – when I advocate for closing all the frats, I jusr mean at PSU. Playing nice hasn’t netted the results we need, so it’s time to elevate the response to a clearer message. The trustees meet in August, usually, and Faculty Senate meets soon. Both those groups will have some say in things,
Or after a serious infraction such as this, ban that fraternity permanently. No second chances. Over time all that will be left will be those fraternities that are willing to play by the rules.
Does creating a secret website showing nude pictures of women that you either got drunk or drugged? How about purchasing woman to pole dance in your frat basement? Forcing potential pledges to drink? Are those serious enough for a shutdown??..if so, shut all but the academic fraternities as I am certain that this likely takes place at them all… At some point, PSU has to take a strong stance. Within the insulation of the state of PA, everyone slaps each other on the back and says just PSU being PSU. Let’s keep hiring our alum.
However on my drive home tonight, the local sports station the Fan played a national segment call out PSU for placing Jay Paterno on the Board of Trustees. Citing that all he has done was ride his dad’s coat tail and that the university finally had the opportunity to create some space between the Molestations but instead they decided to remind the rest of the world about the Paterno legacy…specifically the victims and their families. If PSU does not show the world that they truly want to change the culture, the excellent academic reputation is in question.
How would PSU, as an entity, legally prevent the election of a particular alum to the Board of Trustees? Otherwise, yes…is is the opportuniy to make a statement that will echo across academia. Let’s hope that happens.
@HarvestMoon1 , that’s what has happened. Beta Pi has been permanently banned from PSU. There have been a few others in the years I have lived here.
@bester1 - I think colleges should draw a line in the sand and state unequivocally where that line is. So a late spring BBQ where a frat serves some beer/ burgers and there are no issues might be overlooked. But posting nude pics online, hazing, forcing new pledges to drink to oblivion or strippers at a house would be out of bounds. Why should this sort of thing be part of campus life? These are not emotionally healthy things. It’s been tolerated for far too long and protected by people who think it is some sort of “rite of passage.”