@MomfromPA15317 - That is interesting. I read that they got THON status so they could continue to participate in their philantrophy with one of the fraternities (that has since been kicked off campus). I think that PSU needs to take a look at that policy. It seems like a very LARGE loophole that allows fraternities & sororities who are kicked off campus for good reason to stay organized.
My fraternity was kicked of campus about 7 years ago (I was active 34 years ago) and the members formed a club and continued to exist (doing the same crap that got them in trouble). The school worked with the national fraternity headquarters to shut that organization down. The members faced expulsion from both the school and the fraternity if they continued to organize.
@bester1 Not true. The Board of Governors of Penn State includes the governor and several state agency heads ex-officio. A number of other trustees are appointed by the governor. So there is definitely public oversight.
The ties are more than enough to bring in constitutional obligations. The First Amendment applies at Penn State. You won’t see them trying to impose mandatory attendance at Mass or the like. Likewise, they are not going to kick students out for freely associating with one another. They know they’ll lose that case. They can kick the groups off campus, but they can’t punish students for joining them.
This is from Business Insider
“At least one study has affirmed what had long been assumed: that fraternity men tend to be generous to their alma maters,” Flanagan wrote. This kind of pressure probably prevents colleges from removing Greek life, even if they want to.
and another study-
In a January 2001 study entitled, “Alumni Giving of Business Executives to the Alma Mater: Panel Data Evidence at a Large Metropolitan Research University”, conducted by Albert A. Okunade (University of Memphis) and Phanindra V. Wunnava (Middlebury College and IZA), revealed the giving significance of male Greek alumni. “The novel contribution of this research is the estimation of an econometric model of gift-giving alumni business executives of a large public urban university using 10,192 individual donor observations [that is, a panel of 392 donors for 26 years]. Our theoretically consistent empirical results reinforce the earlier research findings that male alumni in Greek social organizations gave significantly more.” It went on to note, “compared to the non-Greeks, fraternal organization alumni membership (Greek) significantly increased donations by roughly 9 percent.”
Maybe a few multi million dollar lawsuits against the fraternities and their colleges will negate the alumni donor advantage. Wait, PSU has already spent over $100,000,000 in Sandusky settlements and the band plays on.
Well Williams, Middlebury and Amherst are all still standing and they banned Greek life. Focus on the students now who will be future donors – if they never experience Greek life they will not be complaining and withholding donations.
@TomSrOfBoston …Yes, perhaps some oversight but it is only state related. Let me see what I can find for you. Also, PSU has spent over $220 million on Sandusky settlements. PASSHE schools are the Pennsylvania State Schools. PSU/Pitt and Temple are only state related.
Dr. Mark Schlissel, president of University of Michigan, would LOVE to get rid of the Greek system there. He had a bit of culture shock when he arrived as president two years ago.
@cobrat spot on! What I wouldn’t give to see what kind of stats and essays these 18 arse wipes submitted that would make Penn think they’d make such wonderful additions to their student body!
Yes, @jpc763, I agree. It is a huge loophole that needs to be closed. This particular organization, as well as others, has used it to “carry on with the status quo” for years. PSU administration is well aware and has done absolutely nothing to shut them down. It is a joke among students, and frustrating for groups that do follow the rules that it is so easy to get “kicked off campus” and re-emerge as a campus sanctioned THON org. It really negates all of the sanctions that are being discussed when they simply hold no teeth. If the administration wants to clean things up, they would not allow these orgs to operate after recognition is pulled for policy violations.
@cobrat “And Oberlin’s been doing fine without fraternities/sororities, secret societies, and socially exclusive organizations since the 1870’s…” are you kidding???
I have never heard of Oberlin. It has less than 3000 students. Penn State’s smallest branch campuses have more than that. What is the purpose of comparing a school like this to PSU? The Daily Collegian conducted a survey of PSU Greek students asking them if they would have applied to PSU if there were no Greek system, and 44% said no. If PSU eliminates the Greek system they will lose more applicants each year than Oberlin has enrolled.
The Greek system is a criteria that prospective students consider when selecting a college, just as sports teams are. Whether it has to do with the quality of education or not, it is something that many applicants look for. PSU does not have to worry about applications for UP as it is desirable. However, if they eliminate the Greek system, the applicant standards will definitely diminish. Those inferior applicants that now are only admitted for summer or branch campuses will fill the fall enrollment slots vacated by the applicants that have moved onto other schools with strong Greek communities. Admission standards and rankings would go down.
Greeks have a higher GPA and graduation rates than non-Greeks. They statistically earn higher incomes upon graduation. They consistently give more money back to their universities and report a higher level of commitment to their universities. It is not so easy to just “eliminate the Greeks” and enjoy the success that many schools do that have strong Greek communities.
@MomfromPA15317 Very good points. As a current member of the Greek system we do a lot to help our campus. The bad apples blemish the reputation of all fraternities. What’s unfortunate is people overlook the good we do.
If greek life as implemented at Penn State with its current serious longstanding issues is such a big draw that quality applicants will avoid applying if greek life is banned or in another essay linked earlier in this thread, restricted…then PSU is in worse shape than anyone has imagined.
Is Penn State a respectable research I university and state flagship…or is all that merely a facade meant to conceal the fact its sole/main attraction is the seriously problematic greek system that has been allowed to exist for decades with a wink and a nod by campus admins??
It also doesn’t exactly reflect well on those “quality” applicants if those are their main/sole priorities when evaluating colleges…
A part of that is due to careful selection of easier majors which even the cousins who had good character and leadership skills as officers of their respective greek organizations conceded.
There’s also the issue of some fraternities/sororities historically maintaining libraries of old exams or worse, cheat sheets.
A critical part of that is due to nepotistic hiring…especially in the very recent past.
An older cousin was the beneficiary of this when he was hired to work as an analyst for a prominent Ibanking firm which made headlines in the 2008 crash despite coming very close to the brink of flunking out multiple times because he prioritized beer/partying/frats too much over his studies at a lower-tiered Big 10.
And even then, he messed it up and not only got himself canned within a year, but caused serious issues for the frat brother* who hired him solely on the basis of their mutual frat connection. And the older frat brother deserved those problems for only considering the frat connection in hiring him in the first place.
Wouldn't be surprised if that older frat brother who hired him ended up on the blacklist of HIS supervisor/senior management as a result of that effectively nepotistic hire.
Whether or not the GPA thing is true for greek/nongreek, I recall being told during orientation that we should expect joining to cost a given person one GPA point.
I also recall discussing this with a friend shortly before graduation who confirmed that had been his experience.
@MomfromPa that explains a lot! Maybe those inferior applicants are the ones that should be attending instead of these psychopaths with no common sense what so ever.
“implement a residential college/house system to dilute the significant power on social life that the fraternities had”
Good point. But a “substitutable” residential college/house system to frats is expensive and may not be financially feasible for less endowed colleges and universities.