Your hunch is incorrect, I’m afraid. And your limb is pretty flimsy, too! Without the light of day, these men would have easily passed as great prospects and fine citizens. And there were no inmocent bystanders in is one.
We have a normal desire for the Beta Pi’s of the world to be sending out clear signals of being outliers, but they are the product of the system that values pack behavior above personal responsibility or common sense. As long as there are frats, there will be tragedies. Their MO is to break down your individual opinions and thoughts and substitute “for the brotherhood” and bond you to unswerving loyalty via inhumane acts. It is hard to break away, I know, I did it. Frats are a gang, a cult.
Today’s CNN piece suggests maybe frats should only be for jrs and srs. That seems like a workable compromise to me, in places where schools have tight control over their houses. Other places, I still think you should have no frats, or only a select few groups, held to and accountable for higher standards.
The drinking age of 21 in the USA is ridiculous and should be reduced to 19 (to keep it out of high schools). Kids could come out of the frat houses and out of the city basements and drink at a bar in a civilized manner with the proper controls that exist in a civilized society.
I don’t know that every frat is engaging in this severity of hazing, but yes – I believe in order to solve the problem here, and at other schools, we need to stop saying these are unusual or exceptional cases and contemplate it being true that most of the frats are lying about their behavior…
Penn State is full of wonderful people, and the students were outraged BUT NOT SURPRISED. Summer classes started today, but not even half the students are here. If I were a student, I’d feel like the Admins were fools for not getting out and listening. This is PSU’s last chance to make a big step, a bold step, a unversity- changing step. I do not believe they will take it, but hope so.
@momofthreeboys - The school can have a very large impact on a Fraternity that has an off campus house. National fraternities require that the University invite their fraternity on campus before they will start a colony. The colony will eventually become a chapter of the fraternity once they prove to National that they are up to the standards required (GPA, diversity, philanthropy, pledge education, etc).
If a National decides to revoke a charter from a chapter, the membership typically moves to alumni status and the chapter must exit the building, even if that building is owned by chapter.
If a university decides to kick a chapter off campus, the National usually follows suit with a revocation of the charter of that chapter. I have never heard of a National leaving a charter in tact when a university kicked the fraternity off campus.
So, looking at my alma mater, the fraternity I was an active in had it’s charter revoked for numerous alcohol violations in the early 2010’s. The school initiated the action and the national fraternity followed suit and revoked the charter. All members were made Alumni of the fraternity and ordered out of the house. The house was then cleaned and the housing corporation began renting the building out to other greek organizations who did not have a house. 5 years later (after all of the members at the time had graduated) the school invited the national fraternity back and they started a colony. The colony will eventually re-occupy the house if it becomes a chapter again.
@Prezbucky, the first article you linked lists some positives (high number of Greek CEO’s, happy gay frat bros, etc.) but it also includes,
Some fraternities and sororities have had to ban alcohol
Research consistently shows that Greek life involvement leads to a heightened risk of alcohol and drug abuse, to the point that 25% of colleges in two recently researched states have had to outright bar participants from imbibing to keep them academically on track.
Drinking holds more influence over Greek academics
Only 25% of college students report doing poorly on a project or test as a result of alcohol, but the number skyrockets to 50% along with Greek involvement.
Alcohol causes serious interpersonal issues in fraternity and sorority houses
When it comes to drinking in Greek houses, 83% of residents ended up suffering as a result of their brothers’ and sisters’ alcohol consumption.
Sorority girls have a higher rate of alcohol abuse
Outside the Greek system, 40.9% of college females admit to abusing alcohol, whereas sorority girls drink heavily at a rate of 62.4%.
Leaders receive alcohol-related injuries
At a pretty scary rate, too. In fraternities, 26.9% of the leadership sustained an injury as a result of alcohol, as did 18.6% of their sorority equivalents.
Fraternities might account for most campus gang rapes
Numerous studies over time have shown that fraternity men are more likely to commit rape and sexual assault, with some estimating that between 70% and 90% of on-campus gang rapes happen thanks to them.
Sorority parents worry about their daughters' body image
21% of moms and dads believe their sorority daughters suffer from poor body image as a result of their organizational involvement. Only 7% with independent kids held this perception.
These are some scary statistics. #4 is particularly frightening.
Were you in a fraternity? This statement is just so stereotypical. I was exposed to way more “inhumane acts” in my dorm than in my fraternity. My dorm was in way more trouble than my house ever was.
I do believe that many of the posters on this thread were not in a fraternity and have no experience with them. I see a lot of posts that lump all fraternities together and all members as the same type of person. In my experience (at a large university with a large greek system in the 1980’s) is that every fraternity was different. People join the group that they most fit in with. That could mean that the group is made up of a lot of athletes or that they are made up of a lot of guys that are into student government. There are the houses that are known to be the brainy houses and the houses that are known to be the party houses. There are definitely houses that were made up of the entitled kids and we all knew that.
I have no idea what kind of house the Beta Theta Pi house was at PSU or where it was in the spectrum, but just because this happened at Beta Theta Pi does not mean that every other fraternity has a similar ritual to welcome their new pledge class.
This is NOT unlike the dorms at many schools (My S17 is headed to a large university and the dorms are described in exactly that way. You want a quiet, nerdy dorm, you live in XYZ Hall, You want a party dorm you live in 123 Hall).
Penn State President Eric Barron stopped all pledging after Piazza’s death and put restrictions on alcohol consumption at fraternity social events.
But the Piazzas say those restrictions were actually at their request, not Barron’s.
“First of all, the changes that they put through, we told them that they had to,” Jim Piazza said, adding that Barron gave no indication that he was planning to implement those changes on his own.
The university told CNN in a statement that the school has been aggressive in tackling fraternity misconduct, with 170 violations in the last two years alone. But Penn State also said it is hamstrung by the fact that fraternities are off-campus.
“I keep hearing from President Barron, ‘I can’t do anything to these fraternities – they’re on private property,’” Jim Piazza said. “The universities need to take a tougher stand, and don’t give me ‘it’s private property.’ You hold the ultimate pen, which is the pen of expulsion.”
Aside from the administration – and like many universities and colleges in the United States – Penn State has its Interfraternity Council, which describes itself on its website as “the governing body for the 46 fraternity chapters at the Pennsylvania State University,” and “entirely student run.”
The Piazzas have their own description for the governing body of Penn State fraternities:
“The IFC is a joke,” Jim Piazza said.
“They’re like a criminal organization, they cover things up,” Evelyn Piazza said of the IFC.
CNN’s attempts to reach the IFC and one of its attorneys were not successful.
This was an alcohol, hazing free fraternity with an adult in the house.
Sounds to me like another case of “circling the wagons” by PSU
While I agree there are variations in greek organizations, there have been too many serious hazing and criminal actions incidents involving such organizations across the nation.
And while this particular case is a particular egregious case, the root subculture and its associated behaviors which led up to it have been around for several decades. And condoned/abetted by a critical mass of older alums who took part and “enjoyed” their experiences when they were undergrads.
They certainly were present at the Big 10 schools my older cousins who were involved in greek organizations…some as senior chapter officers when they were undergrads there around the same period(early to late 80’s
I agree with much of your post @jpc763 and this is why I cannot subscribe to the theory that this is somehow the “norm” or that this happens everywhere.
Greek life appears to vary greatly from school to school. What I know of current Greek life I know from my D who is in a sorority. During her fist year and half at college I talked to her a lot about her experiences because frankly I was not really 100% on board when she decided to pledge. Her thoughts were very similar to yours in that she said all the frats have distinct personalities and throw parties that match those personalities.
While one might be tempted to conclude the frats with the athletes were the wildest – that’s really not the case as it depends on what sport makes up a large contingent of the frat. So for instance the fencers might throw very different parties than the hockey players. Then there are more academic frats, frats that have a large boarding school contingent and a frat that is totally dry --and not in name only as in this case. One of the most well attended parties for freshman girls her year was a “mocktail” party thrown by that frat where the girls got dressed up and were served fruity, colorful, alcohol free drinks with umbrellas. Sounds corny but the girls loved it.
So I am just not convinced that frats at PSU = frats everywhere. Or even that this Beta Theta Pi = all frats at PSU.
@50N40W : that’s interesting. The Atlantic’s “Dark Power of Fraternities”, especially the information from the lawyers, was very important in my understanding the negatives of fraternities (beside excessive drinking).
PSU needs to take action, especially since the measures taken this Winter were clearly flaunted.
As for the adult “on site”, he was sleeping? through a frat party? That’s his defense? And he didn’t see a young man writhing on the floor in the morning after that long, deep, restful sleep?
@cobrat - I absolutely agree. I am not going to lie and say that hazing did not exist in my days at school. It absolutely did. Here are two examples.
As a pledge, I had daily work duties. I had to go to the house and clean up. That has been banned.
As a pledge we had some open space between our house and the fraternity next door. In that space were some white painted rocks. Those rocks had to be arranged in our fraternity letters. Of course the fraternity next door would send their pledges out to change the rocks tho their letters. That open space is now gone and so are both fraternities and all the rocks.
My point is that it is not just fraternities that have hazing. Lots of other organizations have hazing as well including the Military & College Marching Bands. Even the Boy Scouts of America have cracked down on hazing.
My son was a Boy Scout until he turned 18. When he joined the troop, and we would go camping the boys were to patrol the campsite and pick up all the litter that they had left and anything else that they found. Leave it cleaner than they found it. After they did their patrol line the Scoutmaster and the other adult leaders would inspect the campsite and pick up litter. They always found litter. After the adults were done, the Scoutmaster and the Senior Patrol leader would get together and count the pieces the adults found that the boys missed. Each piece was equal to 1 pushup so the scouts then would drop and so pushups. When I became Scoutmaster of our troop, I stopped that practice as it is a form of hazing and has no place in Scouts.
For those of you who feel that these incidents don’t constitute enough evidence to warrant closing/changing the fraternity system itself (either on a single campus, or nationwide) – what would be enough to change your mind? Not being sarcastic, I am wondering myself , what would it take? Right now we see hazing fatalities and injuries across all sizes of schools, across the country, and across decades. Certainly changes have been made, but not without great resistance. What would we need to see?
I don’t know if the fraternity and sorority system needs to be abolished. We don’t go after private country or yacht club. There are Shriners and other fraternal organizations all around us and plenty of clubs in colleges that either formally or informally house members. I think revoking a house that blatantly disregards either the national rules or the local college rules in conjunction with the national organization seems reasonable. Some people like to be part of a group…others like me not so much but I don’t care if people want to live and play with like minded folks…just obey the rules. I am an avid skier and was disgusted by the behavior of a Michigan frat last year that tore up resort housing but it didn’t make me disgusted by other organizations…just that bunch.
Military training is not hazing.
More than a little offensive to equate the two.
If the assertion is that some units did actually have hazing, I admit it’s possible. I did not see any, but did not serve everywhere.
I do know of at least one officer who lost his job when his troops threw a drinking party at their worksite, while he was on leave. I do not see a parallel to this.
@blueskies2day “This was an evil lot, all in one house, and yes, I think their upbringing had something to do with it, and those commonalities is why they flocked together.”
I can tell you confidently that this is not the case. While I know none of the 18 accused, I know a young man who graduated from this chapter last year. His mother is one of my dearest friends and I have known him since he was a baby. This young man was a leader in HS, is polite and a gentleman. He is incredibly bright and well respected, now working in a successful field.
My family has vacationed with this young man and he is everything that I would ever want from a son or son-in-law. He graduated one year ago so he was certainly friends with the men who have been charged. I can not imagine that he was the only one from this chapter that was honorable. I think this was a tragedy where otherwise decent kids got in over their heads and group think and fear got the better of them.
I believe that their actions were deplorable and indefensible. I was sickened to read the GJ Presentment. My heart breaks for the Piazza family. I am incredibly thankful that this did not occur last year where it would have directly impacted a family that I hold dear.
However, I don’t believe that you should think of these young men as an evil lot. I think the lesson to be learned is that this can happen to seemingly normal, principled individuals who are unprepared for the worst.