<p>It’s not going to do Penn State any good, financially, legally, athletically, or reputationally, to fight every step of this thing, whatever it is. The cause is not being helped by ad hoc groups, alum groups, and random attorneys. Penn State needs to man up, tell all of its supporters that it accepts the sanctions, and just take its medicine. And it needs to do so with humility.</p>
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Question 1: Is every punishment levied by a group such as the NCAA well-reasoned, legal, and just?</p>
<p>Question 2: Is due process a bad idea?</p>
<p>Question 3: Is it possible for a group such as the NCAA to impose excessive penalties that are not repairable even with successful appeal?</p>
<p>Question 4: Are the “best interests” of the university the same as the “best interests” of the Board of Trustees and/or President of the university or any other group associated with the university?</p>
<p>Question 5: Is “manning up and taking their medicine” a good idea when it is the death penalty being discussed? (And addendum - if the suggested sanctions are imposed, what worse sanctions will be incurred by resisting?)</p>
<p>@ cosmicfish (post #6782),</p>
<p>1) Well-reasoned? I’ll leave that to your judgment. Legal? Well, probably yes. The NCAA is a private organization and may do pretty much as it pleases, pursuant to its own rules and its understanding of those rules; the law has little or nothing to say about it. Just? Again, I leave that to your judgment, but given the enormity of the crimes alleged to have occurred at Penn State, I think an appeal for leniency on the grounds of justice won’t get you very far with many people.</p>
<p>2) Due process is a great idea. But due process applies to the relationship between citizens and their government. That concept does not apply to private associations like the NCAA.</p>
<p>3) Sure, the NCAA could in principle impose excessive sanctions. That certainly has not been its history. Historically, the NCAA has been loathe to impose harsh sanctions, preferring milquetoast slaps on the wrist. Given the gravity of the crimes alleged to have occurred at Penn State, I don’t think you’ll find many people outside the most die-hard Penn State boosters who think any sanctions imposed are excessive. This is, simply put, the most egregious breach of basic standards of decency and integrity in the history of NCAA sports.</p>
<p>4) No, probably the “best interests” of the university might well diverge from the interests of the Trustees, the President, and any other individual or group that might represent itself as speaking for Penn State. But so what? What’s your point? This appears to be a situation in which the head football coach, the AD, the President, and the Trustees were all derelict in their duty. I have no sympathy for any of them.</p>
<p>5) If the “death penalty” is imposed. Penn State has a choice. It can accept the penalty. Or it can disassociate itself from the NCAA. It is under no obligation to remain a member. Totally its call; the NCAA is a voluntary association. Lump it or leave it.</p>
<p>@bclintonk:</p>
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On the well-reasoned part, I was specifically asking for the judgement of others. Do YOU think that every judgement has been well-reasoned? As far as legal goes, I mean that both in respect to the NCAA’s own rules (because if they won’t follow their OWN rules, why should anyone else?) and because I believe one of the attorney’s reviously noted that a failure to follow their own rules means that the issue can be protested in a court of law. And justice in this case is meant with regards to those who had committed no wrong other than liking football, the home team specifically, and are getting hit with a huge punishment above and beyond what is already going to be imposed by the actual courts of law. </p>
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Why not? I asked if due process was a good idea, you responded that it was great - so if the NCAA is goign to behave like a court, why should it ignore due process? And if it is not interested in doing so, why wait so long - they could have done an equally half-assed job months ago!</p>
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You did not answer my question. My question asked if they could impose sanctions that (a) were excessive and (b) irrepairable in consequence. You have admitted the former (Although denied the actual possibility) but ignored the latter. Its important.</p>
<p>Oh, and I agree on the severity of the issue - it is so severe that massive punishments will be coming down through actual courts of law, so the NCAA piling on for the relatively thin portions of this that actually influenced football is what gets excessive. Nothing the NCAA does here will have ANY BEARING WHATSOEVER on the people actually at fault here. Unless you think everyone who is a Penn Stater should burn.</p>
<p>
And what about the players, who were in elementary school when this happened? Or the non-football athletes, many of whom will lose their scholarships when the football program can no longer fund them and the university lacks the resources to support them? Or the thousands of people in this small town who will lose their jobs and potentially much much more from a sudden and massive lack of revenues during a recession? The courts are dealing with the egregious crimes of all but the Trustees, and I do not think you will find many Penn Staters with any compassion or tolerance for that group - the issue is that many other people will be harmed for no fault of their own, and they have the right to contest that harm.</p>
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The NCAA is a voluntary association in the same way that OPEC and DeBoer’s are - you can fight the cartel, but no single player has the resources to win. And my point stands - when you face the death penalty, why not fight? Can they kill you twice? I would argue that a 1-year cancellation of the death penalty will do massive damage, and a 2+ year cancellation is completely unrecoverable, both for the team and the community. So why not fight it?</p>
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</p>
<p>At least Erickson is trying to appear contrite and mitigate the damage. Moving the statue was a smart move on his part. Even the most diehard Paterno supporters must realize that this could generate some goodwill from the NCAA. </p>
<p>As I read the posts on pennlive and Bleacher Report, I cannot help thinking that today’s announcement will be the NCAA’s Treaty of Versailles. Many who wil see it as draconian. Alas, outside of a court challenge, there is a imit to what Penn State can do.</p>
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</p>
<p>That is the risk one runs when going to work in a company town. If the steel mill shuts down or the automobile factory closes, the economy is devastated. The other negative is that the locals are dependent on, if not beholden to, that company. This can be problematic when it comes to politics and law enforcement.</p>
<p>Somewhere up thread I wrote this, and I’m throwing it out again in light od the oft voiced concerns for the local economy.</p>
<p>All it takes is some bold thinking and acting outside the box. Take the stadium and surrounding areas in a completely different direction. Sponsor completely different activities there that would draw people to the area, thus somewhat mitigating the economic effects to the town (assuming that that is really what the concern is all about, and not just a back door way of trying to keep the football program intact.) </p>
<p>Art fairs, food events, concerts, whatever. Use the football stadium for something else, and create a different atmosphere. Somewhat akin to taking old shut down industrial spaces in towns and cities and repurposing them into lofts, art studios, restaurants, etc. not a permanent change to the stadium, but festivals not related to football. All profits to be donated to charities, of course.</p>
<p>It’ll never happen.</p>
<p>I’d like to think I’m pretty neutral about the PSU issue and for me the defenses of PSU on this tread ring pretty hollow. Walking the dog this morning the reason for this finally became clear to me.</p>
<p>The argument that PSU as a whole should largely be spared because the tragedy was the result of the actions of only four people does not hold any water for me. First, consider who they are … the head coach, the AD, and the president … these are not some random subset of employees. Second, this list should include the trustees (or at least the head honcho who was told knew about the situation). Finally, and most importantly, from the victim perspective this is the complete chain of command at PSU. </p>
<p>So one can ask … was it only a few people? Yes, but it was EVERYONE at PSU in the chain if command above the victim. These are the people PSU choose to lead the university and they ALL failed the victim. </p>
<p>This is not just some small subset of people at PSU it is ALL of the hierarchy chosen by PSU … IMO doing anything less than punishing PSU as an entity would be diminishing the crimes committed on the victims.</p>
<p><a href=“Live”>B</a> NCAA announces penalties against Big Ten school Penn State**</p>
<p><a href=“Live”>url=http://www.desmoinesregister.com/viewart/20120723/CAROUSEL/120723005/-Live-NCAA-announces-penalties-against-Big-Ten-school-Penn-State?Frontpage</a> NCAA announces penalties against Big Ten school Penn State | The Des Moines Register | DesMoinesRegister.com</p>
<p>The NCAA executive committee chair just took the stage</p>
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</p>
<p>The verb “chosen” is critical here. Suppose that a university hires a coach who is known to flout the rules (which is not the situation here). When he is later found to have violated the rules, he is suspended by the NCAA and fired by the school. Many would argue that that should that be the end of it since the lone guilty part has been punished. Yet, if the university is punished as well, it sends a message that one must be careful when hiring. If you hire John Calipari, you risk being punished down the road. If that means that those wo come after him are hurt, so be it.</p>
<p>The NCAA president just took the stage (the chair just set the stage)</p>
<p>ALL victories vacated since 1998–112 victories. There goes Paterno’s legacy.</p>
<p>Current Penn State players allowed to transfer and play immediately.</p>
<p>$60 million fined, 4 yrs no post season, 4 yrs 15 schollies only, vacate 1998~2011 games</p>
<p>Consent decree signed by PSU Adm. Done deal, no appeal, period. </p>
<p>B1G next…</p>
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What are you talking about??? Thousands losing their jobs if PSU football is shut down for a year. There are 6 or 7 home FB games each year. Surely the good people of Happy Valley and PSU can sponsor 6 or 7 events in Beaver Stadium to make up for any loss of revenue. Events similar to what eastcoascrazy suggested:
</p>
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So he’s no longer the coach with the most victories…In retrospect, that’s an obvious punishment</p>
<p>Wow, I am impressed. The NCAA actually used some common sense, made decisions that will address the problem of sexual abuse of children, and chose to avoid the death penalty for exactly the reasons stated by the relatively few on this thread who argued against it. Bravo!</p>
<p>The hammer is down! Unprecedented, indeed. Seems to me the NCAA had no choice–they had to make strongest of statements. I am somewhat familiar with the climate/culture of Penn State and it has been driven by football for many years. The attitude of ‘hero worship’ has to change and this penalty should set the groundwork for that.</p>
<p>an initial article … [Penn</a> State Nittany Lions hit with $60 million fine, 4-year bowl ban, wins dating to 1998 - ESPN](<a href=“http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8191027/penn-state-hit-60-million-fine-4-year-bowl-ban-wins-dating-1998]Penn”>Penn State Nittany Lions hit with $60 million fine, 4-year bowl ban, wins dating to 1998 - ESPN)</p>
<p>There also were some scholarship limits that were not mentioned in the article.</p>
<p>Personally it looks OK to me … I would have also liked to see a TV ban in parallel to the bowl ban … but overall pretty good.</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. $60M? for what? To fatten their already fattened compensation? </p>
<p>NCAA, making millions off “amateur” athletes.</p>