Perfectionism

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m increasingly convinced that many students and at least a few parents on this board suffer from perfectionism. </p>

<p>It seems it is not enough just to be smart, or hardworking anymore; for many it also requires perfectionism. Maybe that is what the schools now require? </p>

<p>But this perplexes me. I can see schools wanting to fill their class with bright, interesting and hardworking kids, but why would they want a whole class of perfectionists?</p>

<p>Might a perfect SAT and perfect GPA signal not just a smart person; but rather, a smart perfectionistic one? If so, might it make more sense for them to purposefully choose the student with the 2200 or 2300 over 2400 after three tries? </p>

<p>Courtesy of [url=<a href=“http://www.coping.org/growth/perfect.htm]Perfectionism[/url”>Coping]Perfectionism[/url</a>] here is perfectionism and it sure seems familiar to me after visiting CC this past few months: </p>

<p>Perfectionism is:</p>

<pre><code>* the irrational belief that you and/or your environment must be perfect

  • the striving to be the best, to reach the ideal, and to never make a mistake
  • an all pervasive attitude that whatever you attempt in life must be done letter perfect with no deviation, mistakes, slip ups, or inconsistencies
  • a habit developed from youth that keeps you constantly alert to the imperfections, failings, and weakness in yourself and others
  • a level of consciousness that keeps you ever vigilant to any deviations from the norm, the guidelines, or the way things are ``supposed to be’’
  • the underlying motive present in the fear of failure and fear of rejection, i.e., if I am not perfect I will fail and/or I will be rejected by others
  • a rigid, moralistic outlook that does not allow for humanism or imperfection
  • the belief that no matter what you attempt it is never ``good enough’’ to meet your own or others’ expectations
    </code></pre>

<p>What irrational beliefs contribute to perfectionism?</p>

<pre><code>* Everything in life must be done to your level of perfection, which is often higher than anyone else’s.

  • It is unacceptable to make a mistake.
  • You must always reach the ideal no matter what.
  • If those in authority say this is the way it is supposed to be, then that is the way it is supposed to be.
  • You are a loser if you cannot be perfect.
  • It is what you achieve rather than who you are that is important.
  • I have no value in life unless I am successful.
  • The ideal is what is real; unless I reach the ideal I am a failure.
  • You must always strive to reach the ideal in everything you do because it is in the achievement of the ideal that you give meaning to your life.
  • Don’t ever let anyone know what goal you’re working on. That way they won’t consider you a failure if you don’t reach it.
  • There is only one way to reach a goal: the right way.
    </code></pre>
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<p>Notice key words in the above statement regarding perfectionism- everything, always and such words. Getting a 2400 on an SAT does just happen to some students- the test has a ceiling, they are capable of answering enough questions correctly to get the top score. BTW, perfectionism is a common problem for some (notice, not all) gifted people, it is not a new phenomenon. Thanks for pointing out symptoms of perfectionism (it reminds me of reading I have done and the info given to gifted and talented HS students in our district a few years ago, I helped with the project).</p>

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<p>starbright, the schools dont want a school full of perfectionists…that is why we see rejection for seemingly “perfect” applicants…</p>

<p>I find prefection tedious and perfectionist boring</p>

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<p>The link also lists negative effects of perfectionism, including low self-esteem, guilt, depression, pessimism, rigidity, obsessiveness, compulsive behavior, lack of motivation, immobilization, lack of belief in self. For example:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“Coping”>Coping]Perfectionism[/url</a>]</p>

5

<p>I know a lot of high-achieving kids, but I have only known one kid (friend of my oldest, until being perfect got in the way of having a social life) that worked at perfection. No question, that was the goal of the parents.</p>

<p>That kid is at the high Ivy that many kids here on CC have set as their goal. </p>

<p>I suppose the parents think their pushing, restrictions, and endless pressure have paid off, but I’m afraid I don’t agree.</p>

<p>But maybe that is just a non-perfectionist speaking.</p>

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<p>My middle kid “struggles” with perfectionism. He even has a t-shirt that reads “prefectionist” [sic]. It is not as bad as what is outlined in the OP, but it IS a prerequisite for his field. Back in MS, we were told that trait was one of the reasons his private teacher was willing to take him on. It is what sends him to the practice room for hours at a time. He has very little tolerance for mediocre musicians.</p>

<p>My H, an engineer, is also a perfectionist. It does not pervade his whole life (he has no qualms about being messy, for example), only his engineering. Again, it is what makes him good at his job.</p>

<p>I think there is a difference between personal perfectionism and legalism - that everyone else has to do it my way.</p>

<p>My oldest kid, though … awhile back, I sent him the engineer link that was posted on CC. Told him that maybe he should have been an engineer - and he emailed me back and said that an economist is an engineer who knows the term “good enough.”</p>

<p>He gets that from me. I am a firm believer in “if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing poorly.” In other words, I’ve seen too many things get held up trying to make them perfect, and they never get done. If total perfection is worth more than getting it done, then it probably isn’t worth doing.</p>

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<p>Binx, I like that description, legalism. Where did that come from? I assume you mean expecting perfectionism from those around you. Or your entire surroundings? </p>

<p>Having been surrounded by perfectionists in one way or another my entire life, finding some sort of middle way has been a lifelong quest, esp. as I’m more suited to a life with a certain level of mediocrity! I like your attitude about some things being worth doing poorly.</p>

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<p>I love that! My husband is an economist, and that does rather sum it up.</p>

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<p>Pretty much.</p>

<p>It’s not so much an issue of perfectionists being “boring” or “tedious”, as it is that perfectionism is really, really maladaptive in a highly challenging, high-workload, college environment. Selective neglect is a crucial skill. People who worry about getting the last few points don’t get everything done. People who stress if they get less than a perfect score break down when they actually get a low grade, as tends to happen to even top students at least once.</p>

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<p>My daughter had a very wise teacher at age 10, when her perfectionism was taking it’s toll. She advised my D to evaluate her effort and time spent on projects with the question:</p>

<p>“Was the assignment to build a box or a piano?” </p>

<p>It’s taken her a while to learn the difference, but I think she’s close. I’ve heard her study group friends use this question to rein her in, at times!</p>

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<p>“I think there is a difference between personal perfectionism and legalism - that everyone else has to do it my way.”</p>

<p>I agree. I’m a perfectionist and let me tell you, it’s not fun. I tend to apply my perfectionism towards work. I’m sure my husband wishes I would be more of a perfectionist when it comes to the piles around the house. Somehow I just don’t have the energy to apply that perfectionism to my surroundings - I used to but it wore me out. As with all personality traits there are strengths and weaknesses and the above description focuses on the negative and neurosis. I wouldn’t be surpised if perfectionists are also highly creative - the ones I know are - hardly what I would call boring.</p>

<p>I also think it’s a leap to assume that just because a student gets a perfect score or is a high achiever that they are a perfectionist. Some perfect scorers and high achievers are just incredibly gifted.</p>

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<p>I’m not a perfectionist. If I were I wouldn’t be on CC this morning. I’d be working or cleaning the house or finishing the taxes. My kids are power testers, always have been but they are far from perfectionists - terrible handwriting, lousy spellers, never cooperated with the usual EC stuff (music, sports). Their grades are extremely good, though, I think because they tend to like all their teachers and want to impress them. Also, their friends get good grades and so that’s just part of their cosmos. But perfectionists? Nope. I’ve been getting some sort of hurtful comments from other parents lately about my “perfectionist” D1 and insinutations that her scores and grades are “just” the result of work ethic – sort of along the lines of, “oh my daughter could have gotten a 2400 but we want her to be well rounded.” The insinuation being of course that I chained my kid to a desk for years and made her prep for tests. Well, whatever. What’s the point in trying to set someone who wants to say such things straight?</p>

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<p>I often think that my tendency toward perfectionism has held me back and still does. I have such a fear of failure that I’d rather not attempt something hard in case I don’t succeed. My ego doesn’t handle failure well. Of course, I can totally tell other people (including my kids), “Go for it! What’s the worst that can happen? At least you’ll know you tried!” But for me… I don’t know if its perfectionism or laziness that holds me back - I just know that to do some things RIGHT takes a LOT of work, and if I’m not gonna do it right why bother at all? A very self-defeating attitude, to be sure!</p>

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<p>That’ll be too tiring and downright boring to be a perfectionist in my personal life. Now for my work - I have to be since I am a financial analyst. I can just see the consequences if I decide to just “accept” certain numbers, situations, etc. without some form of looking for “perfectionism” in the context of my projects. I’ll probably be out of a job. :(</p>

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<p>I think it’s much harder for a perfectionist to find happiness. A person who chooses to see the glass “half-full” rather than half-empty will ALWAYS be happier than a person who sees the glass as “half-empty”. It’s all in the perception. When one requires being the “best”, being “#1” or being “perfect” to be happy, one is really setting himself/herself for a lot of “failures”. Even a score of 99% would be a “failure” since the ONLY acceptable standard is 100%. I personally feel that anything above 90% is just as good as 100%. That way, you do leave yourself plenty of room to be “happy” and still have a fairly high standard for yourself. That’s why I think it’s better to be #2 than #1 !!!</p>

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<p>Here’s a classic that pertains to this discussion:</p>

<p>Q. What is a yuppie?</p>

<p>A: Someone who makes more money than you do.</p>

<p>In other words, one person’s perfectionism is another person’s high standards. There is a difference between a genuine perfectionist, and someone who is gifted or strives for excellence. </p>

<p>Think of a really good restaurant. The chef will not use inferior ingredients. The chef has superb technique. The chef has superior taste and creates flavors that are deep and well rounded or fresh and clean or subtle or smackingly obvious, depending on what she or he is aiming at in that dish. The chef pays attention to details of presentation, of texture, of balance.</p>

<p>Is the chef a perfectionist? Are you kidding? If s/he were a perfectionist no one would ever be served a dish at the restaurant! </p>

<p>Like Mammall, I find that many people here make assumptions about kids being “perfectionists” in a pathological sense when they most likely are not, simply because the results they achieve are excellent.</p>

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<p>Consolation,
I agree with everything you said except this: “Is the chef a perfectionist? Are you kidding? If s/he were a perfectionist no one would ever be served a dish at the restaurant!”</p>

<p>I find it ironic that some talk in such absolute terms about perfectionism. There are shades of gray in most personality traits (if that is what it is) and to conclude that all perfectionists see the “glass as half empty”, would never accomplish anything or are boring is overly critical in it’s own way.</p>

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<p>Edit: To those of you who “thought” you saw a post of mine on this thread, well… you might have . But it wasn’t perfect so I removed it. ;)</p>

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<p>Oh Curmudgeon you should have left it. Or maybe not because your humor is perfect! I laughed out loud.</p>

<p>I never would have guessed you were a perfectionist - it’s obviously made you much wiser and more tolerant in the long run.</p>

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<p>Certainly there are students who score very well on standardized tests without any, or at least extensive, preparation. I have one myself. On the other hand, I know a student who took the SAT I 4 times until the one-sitting 2400 was achieved, whose parents deliberately limited AP courses to fewer than peer classmates were taking in order to preserve the perfect gpa, who withdrew from a team competition at the last minute because her father figured out she wasn’t going to win any first prizes…you get the picture. I guess you could call that having high standards, but I see an obsessive commitment to achieving some mirage of ‘perfection’, defined by scores, awards and admission to a status school.</p>

<p>Maybe that is not an example of perfectionism but pseudo-perfectionism.</p>