<p>I really don’t have marriage advice since this is way outside of my experience but wondered about the grandkids’ mother - doesn’t she have legal obligations towards her children? It doesn’t seem right that she can just drop them off with the father and disappear from their lives. At a minimum she should be contributing towards child care; is there any reason why she is out of the picture? Can she be required to provide court-ordered support if she is separated from the stepson?</p>
<p>“Can you afford to pay for a great nanny/housekeeper to work at MIL’s? sounds expensive–until you compare it to divorce.”</p>
<p>Now that’s a thought to consider carefully. My mom always said if you can buy your way out of a problem, do it. Since the original goal is to relieve your MIL this might be one of the few buy-out-able problems. Only you know your available finances.</p>
<p>Adding to that: it doesn’t have to be such a “great nanny/housekeeper” (mega$$$) when the MIL is sitting in the house. Some of my most affordable childcare help came when I was at home, but a “mother’s helper” came in simply to play with or occupy the kids. In the event of emergency or diapers, I was right there in the house. But I could rest or get things done, maybe not feel I was the person-of-last-resort which is itself fatiguing. Point is: a “mother’s helper” can be as young as age 12-14, not command the rates of an adult caregiver. As long as another adult’s in the house, you don’t need to pay top dollar for an adult caregiver.</p>
<p>EDIT: This is in the “bandaid” category, while figuring things out. Some might see it as more enabling, but it could just tide you all over without breaking up a marriage.</p>
<p>What a sad pattern of mothers abandoning children. I, too, feel sorry for all involved.</p>
<p>Perhaps a mediator could negotiate a situation all could live with.<br>
Is a treatment program an option for SS? Could the household handle the children while he was in treatment and only for that time?</p>
<p>Or, how about taking a small place for yourself, to protect your sanity, and staying married? That way you can see how long this situation goes one.</p>
<p>My H and I have really complicated issues in our marriage, primarily due to his irresponsibility around financial matters. His emotional irresponsibilitiy aso upsets our kids. However, he has some wonderful traits we all rely on.</p>
<p>Most nights he sleeps at his photography studio. This is a good escape valve for us, me in particular. H understands that if he ever manages to solve his problems (which he openly acknowledge) he can come back full time. I’m not sure he wants to, though he says he does. My point is that we still consider ourselves married, albeit rather unconventionally. This works best for our family, emotionally and financially.</p>
<p>This is more difficult because there are little babies/tots involved who you obvious care about. IF it should be that you do let stepson stay with you for a bit until the little children’s mom takes them back, you would have to establish major boundaries and this is where your husband needs to give some out of respect for you in this situation, let alone in terms of what his grown son really needs anyway. I know you care about the little ones and so some solution needs to be reached but surely your stepson has to step up to the plate to reach this solution and it should not be all on your shoulders. Your thoughts about the situation are reasonable. Now you have to be strong and set the boundaries up. I hope you can work it out. I agree with cheers that your husband should know what is at stake on your end.</p>
<p>What a sad pattern of mothers abandoning children. I, too, feel sorry for all involved.</p>
<p>Perhaps a mediator could negotiate a situation all could live with.<br>
Is a treatment program an option for SS? Could the household handle the children while he was in treatment and only for that time?</p>
<p>Or, how about taking a small place for yourself, to protect your sanity, and staying married? That way you can see how long this situation goes one.</p>
<p>My H and I have really complicated issues in our marriage, primarily due to his irresponsibility around financial matters. His emotional irresponsibilitiy aso upsets our kids. However, he has some wonderful traits we all rely on.</p>
<p>Most nights he sleeps at his photography studio. This is a good escape valve for us, me in particular. H understands that if he ever manages to solve his problems (which he openly acknowledge) he can come back full time. I’m not sure he wants to, though he says he does. My point is that we still consider ourselves married, albeit rather unconventionally. This works best for our family, emotionally and financially.</p>
<p>I seem to have missed the boat with some of the particulars of this situation – didn’t read the OP carefully enough.</p>
<p>However, I still stand by my advice to think outside the box. Loving relationships don’t need to take cookie cutter forms.</p>
<p>Good luck. People are so difficult!</p>
<p>soozievt, I agree with your last post. The solutions for children need to come from the children’s parents, and boundries need to be set up between OP and her H. The nanny can be a good idea, but the children’s parents might not want that for their children. This is why boundries need to be established, and parents need to be make decisions for their children and at least be a part of figuring out solutions.</p>
<p>One thought, why not have legal guardianship (and control) of the little ones assigned to one of the responsible adults. Then all ya’ll can make sure the little ones are safe and protected and not be blackmailed into doing things for SS in order to have access to the kids.</p>
<p>Sounds like SS and his wife need to grow up, only some tough love is going to get them there, but just because “tough” love is needed doesn’t mean there isn’t a scale of tougher or not! We had a D we had to ween out of some bad choices and into some maturity. We definitely argued and disagreed along the way as to the exact execution of the growth!! I saw a counselor once or twice just to have an outside person help me evaluate how fast to push her…it is easy to say “tough love” but what you do each and every day can be more complex- when do you make him do grown up stuff and how.</p>
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<p>A new job and traveling can be extremely stressful and tiring even without any additional complications. Is this possible that you are simply too tired / stressed out to make a decision? Perhaps you can take a timeout and get some rest sometimes even 2-3 day getaway can help to clear your thoughts and put things into perspective. In the either case, you surely deserve some rest. </p>
<p>My close relatives have experienced a very similar situation and, sadly, its extremely difficult to offer any practical advice. However, even if you choose to temporarily move out, this does not necessarily mean abandoning your family sometimes its best to stay away to keep good relationships and you can still visit and babysit. Good luck.</p>
<p>PS: sometimes one spouse making a stand is what it takes- an extended family member has a son who is a serious alcoholic. He spent a year in rehab out of town, to every ones chagrin he moved back home after that year away, where he fell back in with his old friends & habits. He was staying with his mom, when she kicked him out (calling the police to make it happen) she asked her parents to NOT enable him and NOT let him move in with them. Grandpa let him move in, after a month of hell, including thievery, Grandma moved out (married over 50 years and all blood relations in this mix, no steps) until Grandpa realised he could not let the boy live there. The boy is now back in rehab out of the area and hopfully will succesfully complete it and stay in the new area.</p>
<p>So, Grandma had to really show tough love to Grandpa, and it worked.</p>
<p>First of all, make it VERY clear to your husband that you will not allow your son to move back into the house so he can have surrogate parents for his children.</p>
<p>Secondly, it sounds as if the grandchildren need a place to live and be properly cared for NOT your son!</p>
<p>So, I would sit down with the son and his exwife and ask them what they have planned for the raising of their children. If the two of them are incapable of raising their offspring, then they should give them up legally. The care of the children and the enabling of the ill-equipped son are separate issues. The son doesn’t need a mommy, his children do! (they also need a grown-up daddy!)</p>
<p>mythmom - kudos on the courage of the unconventional. If it works for your and your kids…</p>
<p>thanks for all the replies and support! Alumother, your post made me cry (I am already an emotional basketcase lately). YES, I absolutely do love my DH. I don’t want him and I to end. I want babying his (our) adult son to end. </p>
<p>Good thought about the nanny/housekeeper. I have thought about that. And maybe that would be a good thing to talk with DH about. </p>
<p>The mother is even younger than stepson. She actually has been a pretty good mom, up until this whole mess. And given what stepson is, I really can’t blame her for leaving stepson----it was her decision to leave him. I would be very surprised if she didn’t come back to get the kids. There is no court-ordered anything in place b/c they are really just estranged. Nobody has filed for divorce or anything. </p>
<p>BTW, stepson can’t get his own place because he’s screwed up his credit so badly that nobody will rent to him :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Maybe his tough love is realizing that NO ONE wants him to live in their place- not a landlord/stranger, not a Grandma, not a mom, not a sister, no one; therefore, maybe, just maybe, it is him and not all ya’ll!!!</p>
<p>So, maybe he can be allowed to stay with some one under their rules only and if not willing to follow the rules of that home, he is out.</p>
<p>Of course, this all cannot happen unless the issue of his kids is first addressed, separately, to ensure they are safe and well cared for.</p>
<p>what a tough situation…</p>
<p>Seems to me that this stepson is not accepting any ownership yet for his life. But he created more lives that he is not accepting responsibility for yet either. </p>
<p>My favorite Al-Anon analogy from years ago was that every family is a mobile, with a healthy family in perfect balance. However, if one person is ill or “misbehaves” or whatever, they pull the rest of the family out of balance. So, everyone else takes on different behaviors to pull the family back into balance. The errant individual continues to deviate and everyone is changed over time. If the errant behavior stops, then everyone else finds themselves burdened with all this extra stuff ie lack of trust, resentment etc etc. </p>
<p>To me, if you love your husband, then separating/moving out, is not the appropriate response. But, what is? My gut is saying the focus has to be on the grandkids…and what is the right answer for them. Maybe they come to live with you without the stepson? And instead of a nanny, you find a great day care? That way the MIL can get a break…and the kids get to socialize with other kids…and learn all the positives that can come from a
stable daily environment… my kids were in day care and we were blessed with a wonderful setup. They were happy and they learned to enjoy other kids and to be responsible for cleanups and what have you. Seems to me the sooner these kids are in a consistently stable environment, where the focus is on the kids…where there are toys and projects and naps etc… the happier and healthier they will be. Instead right now, the babies are keeping all the adults from doing what they really want to be doing. The right day care is run by adults who love kids and have built the right surroundings for kids and day cares offer one of the most important things (in my opinion) which is a schedule. </p>
<p>I think Soozie’s and others advice about counseling is excellent…though that can be difficult to fit into an already full and demanding life, new job and traveling etc. The intent for your DH in asking can the SS move in with you is that he loves his mom…and doesn’t want her burdened and he loves his son, and he can’t not help him. But, how to help is where advice is needed. Limits and boundaries are imperative here… having SS move into your home blurs boundaries, tears down limits… it doesn’t help SS build his own life. </p>
<p>Maybe you guys can use your money to fund daycare and get counseling for the SS…for a limited period of time? What bothers me in your original post is that after a lifetime of behaviors that have hurt others, he continues to not watch his own kids when not working. “He is on the computer or watching tv or outside etc.” Perhaps the quickest way for him to adjust the behaviors when not at work is for the MIL and FIL to have to go away for 2 weeks? Let SS stay in the in-laws home with the kids alone? That might be the quickest way for him to wake up to what it takes to be a parent… and not have his own grandmother making his dinners and doing the laundry etc? (When I say the quickest way for him to wake up, I know this is not something that can be accomplished that quickly…rather, has he ever had to truly be the only one there for these 2 children for an extended period of time? if not, then perhaps there has to be a first time. If SS can realize that these are MY children, then perhaps he will slowly begin to learn that he can be the DAD and he will want to become responsible? But, if no one ever expects him to do this, why would he ever initiate it on his own?)</p>
<p>Enabling behavior is usually done because we care…but, it is not a helpful behavior at all…especially when it has no limits. I have never looked for an online website or resource for parents raising grandkids or great grandkids, but I bet there are all sorts of things available to help you and your extended family (DH, MIL etc) with the challenges that you all are facing. You are not the first ones…and you won’t be the last. </p>
<p>I wish you peace of mind and heart…I could not read this thread without trying to add light to the picture.</p>
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<p>They already have parents. I hope that mom comes to claim her children. Perhaps she needs to become aware of the strain this putting on DrDrewmom’s MIL. Do the children’s mother have parents that can also pitch in where needed too? Perhaps they can become a part of the solution as well. I don’t see why DrDrewmom and her H need to necessarily take in their grandchildren. For how long would that continue? Sounds to me like DrDrewmom is busy with her work, and coming home at night to a couple of grandchildren to start her second job with them after work might be a bit much. I think that SS needs to get off his computer and start caring for his children.</p>
<p>thank you guys again. I am very touched that so many of you would even take the time to read my ranting and whining, and then post thoughtful replies. </p>
<p>maineparent, I loved the al-anon thing. That has DEFINITELY happened in our family. I think I am the only one who sees it though. You are right that DH is very concerned about his mother and I agree she does need a break! I just think it should be from stepson, not us. And ESPECIALLY when he is not working. </p>
<p>northeastmom, my step-DIL came from an even more screwed up home. Her mother already did help out a lot with the 3-year-old when she was a baby as they lived with them. DIL’s mother has a live-in boyfriend (whom she has a 12-yr-old son with) but that guy is a slimeball. In and out of jail and when DIL was first pregnant with granddaughter, we all thought he might actually be the father (gross, I know). So DIL has grown up in a very unhealthy situation and I certainly don’t hope for the grandkids ever to live there again! I really love DIL and hope for all their sakes that her and stepson get back together. But as I said earlier, I don’t blame her for getting tired of stepson (he never stayed at any job longer than about 5-6 months and I think she didn’t like that too much).
The whole scenario is a big mess with no easy answers or solutions. </p>
<p>I should also clarify that DH is usually very agreeable to me and honestly lets me have my way about a lot of things. </p>
<p>Oh yeah, and someone asked about AA. I think stepson is going to some kind of group like that (condition of his DUI). I have noticed that when he comes over with the kids on weekends he’ll start drinking beer around 2pm and go all day. Not falling down drunk or anything, but it concerns me----also b/c I’ve got teenagers in the house who I don’t think need to be watching that. And, if anything, DH will join him! :mad: even though he rarely drinks otherwise :rolleyes: .</p>
<p>I don’t have any advice to offer about how to deal with the stepson. I would advise against allowing him, his children and your MIL to move in with you, however. A temporary arrangement has a way of becoming a permanent one.</p>
<p>The issues that need to be dealt with right away are how to ensure that the children are properly cared for and how to relieve some of your MIL’s burdens. Of course, much depends on whether she is willing to continue letting her stepson and his children stay with her. Assuming she is, then I second Cheer’s suggestion of getting help. It does not need to be a nanny or housekeeper. It can be someone who comes everyday to clean, shop, cook and do the laundry; or the chores can be distributed among several (we do the shopping for my MIL, for example). Is there money to take the children to daycare a few hours a day? That, too, would give your MIL respite from taking care of them. The solutions do entail money, but they are less disruptive financially and emotionally than your contemplated move.<br>
In the long run, though, your stepson will need to assume his responsibilities for his own and his children’s welfare. </p>
<p>Good luck and hang in there.</p>
<p>I’m going to make a radical suggestion. DrDrewsmom, I gather that you have a demanding job that requires travel, and three children living with you. I can’t imagine that you have the time or energy to take on two very young children. Your MIL is taking a great deal of responsibility for her GREAT-grandchildren. The other side of the family cannot provide a wholesome environment. Neither of the parents of the two children appear willing to take care of them, and I don’t see that anyone else in the family can really do it. There are many couples who would love to be parents of those children. If the parents are not willing or able to properly care for them, then they should really consider giving them up for adoption.</p>
<p>I am very sorry for your situation Dr Drewsmom. My aunt enabled her daughter who is an alcoholic/drug addict to run her life for decades. (cousin is late 40s now). She had social services take her kids away thinking that would shake her up and she would become sober. The kids are grown now and she is still drinking and in/out of jail. When the latest jail release was coming up and the daughter told aunt that she wanted to move in with aunt and third husband (best yet) my aunt said ok. Her husband said “Its me or her and if she moves in I move out.” My aunt has said "No"for the first time to my cousin and I think it will be a good thing for her. Time will tell. This is not exactly the same scenario but it is OK to take care of your needs and the younger kid’s needs and set an example to them. I think there needs to be good dialogue with the younger kids about making commitments (marriage) and making tough choices that affect marriage if something is happening that is not healthy for the entire family unit.</p>