PhD program questions

I’m a chemist/materials scientist, so my experience differs from theoretical physicists, but is relatively similar to other experimental scientists who make new things.

Aside from lab experience, resourcefulness and knowing how to use ‘the literature’ are key to ‘getting it’ in grad school. She should be very comfortable with literature searching, and immerse herself in the modern work in her field - ie. knowing what fields are ‘hot’ and why those fields are being developed. She should get very familiar with reading academic papers - she doesn’t have to read them all from start to finish, but rather to learn the skill of picking out important bits to accurately understand the gist of the work (unfortunately nobody has time to read all interesting papers in detail…) When she does read papers in detail, she should be trying to analyze if the science is done well or not.

PIs and older grad students are happy to teach lab skills (every lab has different equipment, procedures, etc. so it’s expected). But the students who really stand out are the ones with a well-developed ability to understand the scientific method and how to carry it out (ie. not doing useless or poorly planned experiments).

As for finding a supportive lab, she can talk to other professors who aren’t her advisor to get a broader view of who’s out there doing work in her field. The best PhD advisors are not always the most well-known professors in terms of publications and awards. But they tend to have a reputation in the field of being good, supportive PIs and doing good, solid science… Academia is a bit of a clique-y world that runs on rumors and reputations… But it’s also possible that your daughter’s field is stacked in the South. But maybe she should explore the possibility of doing her PhD in an area that isn’t so directly related to her undergraduate work.

@labrad00dle, my collegekid made the same transition, from a super-supportive LAC to undergrad. Some thoughts:

  • some of the best info my collegekid got was from her peers at summer research places and the Undergraduate Women in Physics group (she went to several UWP conferences, including the NE regional one. This is how networking starts :-)
  • once she has offers, they all have visit days. As others have noted, the whole process is much less structured than undergrad admissions, but you learn a lot from the days you go to.
  • her advisor is most likely referring her to the places that s/he has contacts / knows the program and/or thinks are good fits for her. At this stage, regionality should not trump research interests / fit / access- and if it does, then your daughter should start thinking about what she wants in the longer term. If she is thinking college prof (see #18) she would want to be realistic about her prospects.

building on that, and as @geraniol indicates, PhD is all about specialization, and you go where the specialists are. There is a CC parent who was surprised to see his Cambridge University daughter head off to U of Manchester for graduate work (Manchester? after *Cambridge) but she was thrilled that the world leader in her specialty area- who was at Manchester- agreed to take her as a student.

Finally, collegemom to @labrad00dle mom: your girl needs to do this- and ime they grow into new roles as they are asked to. My daughter sounds a lot like my collegekid, and I would never have imagined how much she blossomed in grad school. I know that they are mostly grown and flown at this point- but there is a still a lot of growing happening. Leave room for the possibility that, when it is asked of her, she will grow into her next role as successfully as she has this one.

@labrad00dle - Usually, the best way to find out how supportive and nurturing a graduate program is is to ask the current students and very recent graduates (like, within 3 years, but the current students are better and more accessible). The professors in the department will tell you whatever, but the current students will give you the real lowdown. For a student who is really concerned, I would say talk to 2-3 current students from their top 3-5 programs to get the full picture from a couple perspectives. If you take them aside and do a Skype call or a private one-on-one meeting, they’ll be able to be more open and honest (as opposed to a departmentally organized event with a lot of people around, although sometimes they can be honest there too).

This is not often something you can tell at the outset, unless you happen to have a network of alumni of your college who have recently gone to PhD programs in your field. I did, because I was in an undergraduate research training program, so I heard anecdotally from other students who had graduated and started PhDs how good (or bad) they thought their departments were. Usually, a student starts by outlining a reasonable array of programs to apply to on the basis of research fit, reputation and other factors (location, etc.) Then once you’re admitted, you go to visit days and that’s when you start to shape your opinions of the departments.

Undergraduate advisers, interestingly enough, are not necessarily the best people for this task. They often simply don’t know what are the nurturing vs. more independent departments. Some really exceptional advisers make it their business to know. But even recent graduates often don’t communicate the mentorship and advisory struggles they are having to old mentors, so undergrad advisors often know which programs are strong in their area and turn out good scholars - but not necessarily what the departmental style is. (This might be different at research universities, because professors who teach both graduate and undergraduate students may be a little more familiar with other graduate departments in their field and their internal workings. But professors at LACs don’t always know.)

I will also say that an LAC student does not always need a more nurturing department. I went to an LAC and I certainly would not describe my graduate department as nurturing. While I was initially surprised by how hands-off my department was, I quickly came to value that independence. I felt that my LAC had prepared me very well for doing research more independently, and along with the relative lack of oversight came more freedom to determine my own interests, shape my own academic program and basically do what I wanted to do. My PI never made me do anything I didn’t want, and the freedom also meant I could do things like a market research internship one summer (which was directly related to me getting the job I currently have, which I love!) My advisors were generally there when I needed them to be but stayed out of my way when I wanted to do my own thing, which was actually pretty great.

Also, I want to be clear that more independence/freedom/less direct management doesn’t mean totally hands-off, leave-you-to-the-wolves kind of thing. Departments vary a lot, and it’s a spectrum. I think it simply means that the department expects you to be independent much faster than other departments might. Professors also vary, and you can find a supportive mentor in a more hands-off department (or a more hands-off or even neglectful mentor in a normally very nurturing environment).

(I also might advise your daughter to not completely rule out the South, and certainly not to constrain herself to only applying in the Northeast. It’d be great if she could get a PhD in her chosen area, but allowing herself some flexibility in the location of her program increases the chances she finds a good research fit. A great fit at a department with a good reputation may actually give her more location options down the road, particularly if she’s interested in an academic career.)

Thank you geraniol, collegemom, and juillet for your sage advice! It’s always very helpful to learn from the experience of others and to stop going around in circles in my own head.

My daughter is quite independent by nature. But I believe some direction in the first year to acclimate to the rigors and stresses of the PhD would boost her resolve, confidence, and help her thrive. Just being a worry-wart mom, and maybe overthinking all of this.

She will have her first research experience away from her LAC to attend a REU/SURF program at an elite institution this summer. This research institution has a PhD program but doesn’t offer any undergraduate programs. My daughter will have the experience of working in an environment that does not work with undergraduates, except through their 10 week REU. She’ll be leaving her LAC bubble only to experience another bubble environment. There were other REUs she could have elected to attend. But she chose this one. I’m hoping this is an expression of the independence she wants to acquire to forge her own path.

We’ve been thinking that there are enough great options in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic, that it shouldn’t limit her options for finding great research that interests her in a great environment. Perhaps the summer experience will render her more flexible to opportunities west and south of our geographical area.