Philadelphia airport snowstorm - Part 2

Parent Cafe
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<p>Marite, aren’t you here for the excellent company? and to give others the benefit of your wisdom?</p>

<p>Re cost of undergrad, grad etc. Just remember that 200,000 spent now, at compound interest is worth well over a million dollars in 30-40 years. Maybe it is better to just give your kid the money if you have it. I am not kidding. Where I grew up, there were students who chose to attend a local u which gave good FA to top students, which incidentally was tier 3. The wife of one of my fellow lawyers back in the day had done this, and gone on to Yale law. I always admired her for her choice, and incidentally had many times questioned my own choice not to go there. I would never have gotten into Yale law from my own much more highly ranked undergrad - didn’t have the stats. Maybe I wouldn’t have from that school either, who knows. I actually loved my law school experience anyway, and maybe it was more suited to my strengths/weaknesses, and it served me well, but it wasn’t Yale. That made more difference in the job prospects than the undergrad, and that was true for many people in the big NY law firms. In medicine it is true that everyone who graduates is a doctor, but the place attended can make a big difference.</p>

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<p>“there’s an impression that Rhodes is similar to Yale in undergrad quality of education and undergrad quality of experience”</p>

<p>In what ways is the QUALITY of education and undergrad experience significantly different between Rhodes and Yale…for a driven, focused 18 year old with a desire to attend a professional school, who feels Rhodes is a better fit than Yale…?</p>

<p>I attended a LAC, and I can’t imagine the quality of education and experience being better anywhere else…for me, when I was 18-22 years old.</p>

<p>For our child, the opposite choice from Curm’s was made, which is one of the reasons I have followed his D’s story (the other, more important reason, is the entertainment value of his posts.) My child had no interest in attending a LAC, and I don’t think this child would have thrived at one of the large top-notch state Univ where substantial aid was offered. But, we have taken on significant debt, and there is no money available from the Bank of Mom and Dad for this child for professional graduate school.</p>

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<p>Late to the party, but Congrats to your DD Curm… Way to Go!!!</p>

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<p>we’re talking about Rhodes in Tennessee right? And I thought this young lady attended Rhodes over Yale because of financial reasons, not because it was a better “fit”. But in any case you believe Rhodes in Tennessee has little significant difference in educational quality than Yale? So I guess you think Rhodes and other mid-tier LAC’s are comparable to Yale’s peers; Harvard, Princeton and Stanford as well in “educational quality”. </p>

<p>are you joking?</p>

<p>if we were comparing Williams you’d have a reasonable point, but Rhodes in Tennessee, come on, they’re way different in quality. And I’m not trying down grade this young ladies accomplishments, she sounds amazing. But an objective view of Rhodes and Yale will show Yale significantly higher quality on all points, profs, students, facilities, and athletics…four key components of an educational institution.</p>

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<p>Anothermom:
You’re absolutely right. And Curm is definitely among the “excellent company.” But he does not need my bits of wisdom.</p>

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<p>I don’t think that folks are claiming that Rhodes is the exact equivalent of HYPS. But for a motivated student, it can deliver as good an education as HYPS. Mudgette got an excellent education including research opportunities that were a factor in her admission to Yale Medical School. If she decides to go there, she’ll be two classes behind one of S’s friends who attended Yale College.</p>

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<p>Well, I’m back from a short “explore” on the motorcycle and can see that this thread has taken on a life of its own. Well, that’s nothing unusual on cc . :wink: </p>

<p>I posted her results from her trip here on a travel thread because I was asked to do so. </p>

<p>I do find it somewhat humorous that pacheight is making arguments similar to those I made back when my D was making her UG decision. </p>

<p>Rhodes takes a back-seat to very few places when it comes to opportunities for research and service, facilities, UG-focused profs, and it has enough tip-top students- a critical mass in cc parlance- to keep it intellectually lively. It is a wonderful school for a kid who can run from the front and still set her best time. For a kid who needs to be surrounded at all times by intellectual peers to be at their best? Not so much. (An accurate self-assessment is needed.) Agreed, Rhodes is not a peer of Yale across the board but I don’t believe anyone was saying it was. Certainly not me or my kid. But for the right kid it can be an amazing 4 years. </p>

<p>My kid is the dreaded and reviled “pre-professional” (although she shares many interests with the intellectuals). I have “hyperbolized” before that getting between my kid and her goal is like getting between her Anatolian shepherd and a pork-chop…not a particularly comfortable place to be.;)</p>

<p>The goal is academic medicine/translational research in what is likely a competitive field. A top med school helps (if being a practicing physician was her only goal she would approach her decision differently as a tip-top med school would be less important). My D felt that the opportunities at Rhodes could get her to a top med school with zero debt (and with the added benefit that she loves her school). Knowing her, she will select her med school based primarily (but not solely) on its ability to get her where she wants to go in her career. </p>

<p>Knowing me, I will probably continue to harp, whine, cajole, and harass on quality of life issues. She has mastered the concept of delayed gratification. Dad, again, wants her consider the next 4 years. I will use the tent over the grave analogy and call it my own. </p>

<p>I’m very proud of my kid, but she is not me. Her choices are not my choices …and they haven’t been for a long time. She will make her decision based on what is most important to her. She is concerned about quality of life, and debt going forward is a part of that as that note payment will impact her career options. But by taking the Bellingrath at Rhodes over Yale or Amherst she is exactly where she set out to be. She knows the position she wants to be in 4 (or more likely 5 ) years from now. I wouldn’t bet against her this time , either.</p>

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<p>^^your daughter sounds amazing! I like amazing kids! i can see why you’re proud of her.</p>

<p>it’s the equality of schools I was commenting on, somebody above said: “In what ways is the QUALITY of education and undergrad experience significantly different between Rhodes and Yale”</p>

<p>the question communicates that this person doesn’t think there’s a big difference, and it seems others on here believe that as well.</p>

<p>I think this is more an end-result and money choice than anything else, sounds like Rhodes was the right financial and educational strategy decision to get to Yale with no debt. And it worked, that’s great! It’s a tad ironic that Yale is the prize, yet only valued as better at the grad level.</p>

<p>if you think Rhodes in Tennessee is on par for research and service, facilities, UG-focused profs, and it has enough tip-top students as Yale then OK, can’t argue with that…I’ll start looking for HYPSr on these boards:)</p>

<p>best of luck to your daughter, she sounds like a very good person.</p>

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<p>I don’t think he said it has “enough tip top students as Yale” but that it had enough to ensure that she was challenged by her peers and had friends who could do more than grunt. :slight_smile: (I make that comment because many of the Southern schools- espec the state schools- get slammed on here for quality of student intelligence…)</p>

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<p>

Who said that? lol I wasn’t drawing that comparison at all. This what I said

I was just saying that Rhodes takes a back-seat to very few in UG research, facilities, UG focused-Profs. I think they take a back seat to even fewer in service. You ought to visit. </p>

<p>Yale has better students top to bottom but the top 20% at Rhodes could have attended many other bigger name places. Most of them turned down the big name schools. ;)</p>

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</p>

<p>Someone who taught at a top public university before being hired away by Harvard said more or less the same thing. The top students at the public U were every bit as good at those she taught at Harvard. But the drop off in excellence below that was far more swift at the public U than at Harvard. This quick drop off can make a real difference in a student’s experience. But it need not always be so, especially if a good and motivated student seeks out more advanced, more challenging classes. That seems to have been the case with Mudgette. I agree that her self-knowledge greatly helped her. A bright but less focused student might not have made the most of the opportunities available at Rhodes.</p>

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<p>marite, I think you’ve got it! Well said!</p>

<p>At my kid’s school she availed herself of everything including independent study many semesters, seminar courses (some team taught by St. Judes researchers), study abroad language immersion classes, research since freshman year, funded NSF research during two summers, lots of classes in non-science fields to broaden her perspective… the list is very long.</p>

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<p>Rhodes SAT-I Scores (Math and Reading)
Below 1130-------9%
1130-1200--------19%
1210-1270--------25%
1280-1350--------23%
1360-1450--------17%
1460-1600---------7% </p>

<p>Yale
SAT-------Critical Reading-----Math
700-800--------76%-----------76%
600-690--------21%-----------22%</p>

<p>top 20%? how about maybe 7%. </p>

<p>I’m glad things worked out for your child but I think it’s off-base to suggest that the quality of the educational experience at Rhodes (and other similar 2nd tier LAC’s) is similar to Yale (and other big name schools), even for those kids that are motivated to use the resources and seek out the few other bright kids on campus. it’s just not the same level of education. the top 20% at Rhodes could not have attended other big name schools, maybe the top 5% could have, and that’s a SIGNIFICANT difference.</p>

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<p><psst. check=“” the=“” act,=“” too.=“” just=“” to=“” be=“” thorough.=“”></psst.></p>

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<p>Although I haven’t verified your numbers, it does appear that 72% of Rhodes students have over a 1210 combined while 97% of Yale students have over a 1200 combined. A substantial difference to be sure, but I’m not sure that means it’s all Romper Room and Play-doh at Rhodes. I mean , they even have a couple of kids who can walk and chew gum at the same time. ;)</p>

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<p>19.11% over 700 CR, 25.94% Math. Apples to apples. Rhodes CDS. Boo-yah. lol . :wink: </p>

<p>This is fun but accomplishes nothing. Let’s leave it for another day and another thread. These are happy times. The goats are still dancing. </p>

<p>Hope your kid finds what she’s looking for at Stanford (or wherever ;)). It’s a great school, too.</p>

<p>edit: Remember to get the bumper sticker. I have mine. ;)</p>

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<p>I was the poster who questioned “higher quality” at what is considered a top level Ivy school versus what is considered a mid-level LAC. My position remains that if a regional LAC is a good fit for a kid while she’s 18 -22, and that kid is focused and motivated to get the most she can out of opportunities presented and found, she can get the highest quality undergrad education and experience at most mid-level LACs in the US.</p>

<p>But, not all of our high-performing, high stats, super EC kids are that focused and motivated (mine wasn’t.) There are also some kids whose interest is so advanced and specialized, that they need the higher level of instruction and cohorts in their field that may only be available at a tippy-top school with affiliated graduate schools (or…possibly…a large university.) But, HYPMS is not better suited for these kids because of “higher quality” undergrad at those schools. They’re just a better fit.</p>

<p>I don’t doubt that Curm’s daughter would have done well at Yale or Amherst…but…it’s possible she wouldn’t have thrived as it appears she did at Rhodes.</p>

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<p>oooh. ooh. Parent fight!!! Call the kids!! I didn’t see this edit!!

pacheights. May I say, as politely as I can, I believe the cheese may have slipped off your cracker. :wink: </p>

<p>I’ve met these kids. You haven’t. I know where they were accepted. You don’t. They are from all over the U.S… Rhodes has a very high % of OOS kids, and that was an important factor in my D’s choice. (I think it hovers around 75-80% which is much higher than many other USNews Top 50 LAC’s.) </p>

<p>You seem to be ramping it up for some personal reasons I can’t fathom. But , hey. Give it a shot. We’ll see how it works out for ya. ;)</p>

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<p>You know, when you pay or a planning to pay big bucks for something…well…it just HAS to be the better choice. You remember the wine experiment? Research showed people’s brains lit up more in the part of the brain that registers a pleasant experience when they thought they were drinking a $45 wine instead of a $5 wine – even though the two wines were actually the same! The subjects anticipated a better experience from the $45 wine, and they got it.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that Stanford or Yale is the same as Rhodes. I’m just saying that many (not all) WILL think a pricey exclusive “shiny brand” school is a better experience, no matter what. Marketing and perception play big roles here. It’s just human nature…</p>

<p>Cur…awesome news about your d. Hope she continues to soar!</p>

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<p>sorry that upset, I didn’t see that coming. I was just trying to point out that there’s a pretty big difference here. i thought the numbers would help, I don’t agree that Rhodes at 19.11% over 700 CR, 25.94% math compares to 76% of the students at Yale who scored over 700 in both CR and math, that’s not “apples to apples” at my market:)</p>

<p>those numbers tell me that there is a significant difference in the UG institutions. </p>

<p>I think Yale med is great as well as their athletics!, although the food in New Haven, well that’s another story:)</p>