Physics at a large state school (UMD) or a smaller school (W&M)?

Hi all,

My son is trying to decide between a UMD and William and Mary… and is having a hard time choosing. He wants to study physics.

He has opinions about the campuses, and the “vibe” of the two, but I’m specifically asking about the physics, if anyone here can speak to that… science at a smaller school then on to grad school? or science at a large state school and then grad school?

How important is a big, well-ranked place like UMD for science as an undergraduate? It has professors doing cutting edge research and something like 75 incoming freshman majors.

W&M, though, would offer great instruction, smaller class sizes, and physics profs there are certainly doing research, including at Jefferson labs pretty near by.

He is set on physics, and knows he wants to go to grad school and do research.

Physics you have to take all these foundational courses, right? So the amazing high level offerings at UMD may not even be available to him until his junior/senior year… (though he’ll get out of some courses due to his AP exams).

I need to find some PhD scientists to ask this question of, I suppose, but if you have experience with this, I’d be grateful for your advice. Thanks.

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He is going to need research, experience, and relationships with his professors…they will be writing LORs.

These are both excellent schools. Did he make honors at UMd?

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D24 was struggling with a similar difficult decision - UIUC Grainger v. Washington University in St. Louis (WashU) for physics and philosophy. Ultimately, she decided on WashU for undergrad with an eye on UIUC for grad school.

There is a thread here with great advice: https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/uiuc-grainger-vs-wash-u-for-both-physics-and-philosophy-similar-cost

Best wishes to your son!

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Thanks for the link to the discussion about UIUC and WashU- I’ll check that out.

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I wonder if he would get better opportunities for doing undergrad research with professors at W&M vs UMD? I imagine those research spots at a bigger school go first to grad students. I’d try to find out what opportunities he’d get for research as an undergrad at both schools.

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Not necessarily - plenty of opportunities for research at my son’s large flagship.

I’m sure you can ask the department to find out.

There could be more - if the program is bigger (at UMD).

I’d research with the school to find out.

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W&M is an excellent school with excellent undergrad research opportunities. I recommend adding the actual names of the schools you are considering to the title of this post so people who know best about those particular schools will comment.

Info on undergrad research in physics at W&M

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This is the freshman Physics research class

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UMD also has undergrad research opportunities in over 30 areas.

I have no skin in the game - whatever is best for OP - but my guess is there’s opportunities for them in either scenario - and perhaps overall fit should be evaluated. My guess is if OP wants to do research at a large or mid size school, they’ll have the opportunity.

Undergraduate Research - UMD Physics

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Both schools have research opportunities. Which school does he like better- size, etc?

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My son is finishing up his sophomore year as a physics major at William & Mary. The bottom line is that students from both schools go on to top PHd programs. Your son will not be disadvantaged in any way if he chooses William & Mary. We did not look at University of Maryland, so I am not going to guess about the undergraduate experience there. I’ll assume that your obviously very bright kid is capable of reading through the departmental websites and course catalogs for each school. Hopefully he has also been able to attend admitted student days and had opportunities to connect and ask questions of faculty.

The undergraduate physics curriculum is going to be very similar at most universities. The main difference as I see it between William & Mary and a larger state school really comes down to the rest of the coursework outside of physics. William & Mary is a midsize research university that very much functions like a liberal arts college. AP classes will not get you out of the Coll requirements, so students all have to take several classes outside of STEM. You should also be aware that there is a foreign language requirement if your kid has not taken four years of it in high school. By contrast, my older son studied engineering at a large public and with all the AP credit only had to take one non STEM class to satisfy the writing requirement ( and I think it was something along the lines of “history of technology” lol)

One of the areas where William & Mary shines is in access to undergraduate research. Your son should read through the websites for the different research groups and see if anything interests him. I am also going to note that the “freshman research course” that someone posted about above isn’t really a class per se. Students receive academic credit for their research. The student needs to reach out to a faculty member who will then open up a section of a research course that the student will sign up for. The great thing is that undergrads are not competing with grad students for positions and are able to take on substantive roles in the labs immediately. They are not sweeping floors or cleaning beakers. The other thing to note is that all students complete either a year long capstone project or honors thesis under the direction of a faculty member senior year. Supposedly, this is looked upon very favorably by graduate programs.

As you are probably aware, William & Mary has announced that the Physics department (along with Comp Sci, Data Science and Integrated Science) will be their own school within the university starting in 2025. There is a ton of money and resources being allocated to the physics department.

Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions about William & Mary or the physics department in general. In addition to the partnership with Jefferson Labs, there are also opportunities for students with NASA Langley.

Congratulations to your son. There isn’t a wrong choice here.

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Thank you so much for your reply. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to read about - an actual student there now! My son has already explored their websites, sat in on a class at UMD and talked to a physics professor at WM. We are of the opinion that he can’t really go wrong either place, but a few scientists (not physicists) who we know expressed surprise that he wouldn’t choose the big research univ that’s highly ranked for physics etc.

The smaller size of the school appeals to my son, as well as the general feeling of the campus. But we didn’t want to steer him wrong if UMD is the clear choice, you know?

Thank you, all, for chiming in. Appreciate this community.

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FWIW, my son turned down GA Tech in state for William & Mary and we have no regrets and don’t feel that we have compromised his future in any way. My husband’s uncle has a PhD in physics from UC Berkeley and runs a lab at one of the other UC’s. He encouraged my son to look at schools that focused on undergraduate education and thought William & Mary was an excellent option.

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Thanks to everyone who shared their time and advice with me. My son ended up choosing UMD. He loved the vibe of WM but ultimately decided against it bc

-he didn’t love the idea of the Coll courses (he didn’t apply to any SLACs, and the WM Coll courses are definitely LAC-like)

-he felt like the bigger physics dept would offer more options in terms of people/labs to work with

-the “vibe” wasn’t worth the extra money (we’re in state for UMD)

We are relieved and happy that he made a decision he seems happy with.

Thank you again.

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This is the MOST important thing! Best wishes.

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Absolutely. My wish is for each of these great kids deciding between great colleges to end up excited about where they are going for college. How they get to that place is an inherently personal journey, though, and as long as it worked for them, that was a good path.

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