<p>Whenever I read about an incident like this, I try to restrain my outrage, because you really need to know exactly what was said and what happened–what was the first thing the store clerk said? What did the customer say? Where exactly was the customer? I’ll bet they don’t toss out every adult male customer who goes into the kids’ section without a kid–why did they pick on this guy? They may have profiled him because of the way he looks or dresses, or because of his behavior. Or it may just be that the particular clerk is a jerk, or is hypersensitive.</p>
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<p>I’m with you. There is always so much subtext to a a given sitaution, so much that is “between the lines,” that doesnt come across in a news article. This could have occurred exactly as it reads, and the lady that asked the clerk to remove him could just be a crazy person, but that might also not be it… no way to know unless you were there.</p>
<p>I also think it’s highly possible that this could have been a young clerk or a newer employee, who received a complaint from a female customer about a male who was making her uncomfortable, and not knowing what else to do they just did as the female customer requested. I think it’s important that the clerk didn’t just see him and act, they had received a complaint about it. Reacting in that way may have been a mistake, but I was a young gal working in a Borders store once-- where a LOT of inappropriate gentlemen tended to loiter and needed to be removed, that kind of thing happened a lot-- and I could see myself not knowing what to do in this situation, at least as the 17 year old I was at the time. I think I would have gotten a manager, but I don’t really know. I think it’d be an uncomfortable situation to be in, to have one customer approach me with these kinds of fears about another-- what do you do to pacify that one without jumping to conclusions? Especially not knowing what specifically she saw or heard that made her uncomfortable… we assume it was his mere presence because that’s all that’s in print, but we don’t know that.</p>
<p>In reading the story, one thing jumped out at me. The doctor said that if it is the policy not to allow men in the children’s section without a child, then they should have a sign posted. End of story. What? We are all supposed to be mind readers!!!</p>
<p>I have so many reactions to this thread.</p>
<p>First, here is a very unpopular position: We need to stop catastrophizing minor sexual picadillos. I don’t mean to fun afoul of the poster who said she’d been flashed, but I wish we could teach young women (and children) to say, “big deal” to that. As a kid who lived near NYC it happened to me a lot as a kid. Once a guy pointed to his member and said, “What’s this called?” I said, “You’re old enough to know.” Another time a guy asked, “Am I big?” I said, “Not very.”</p>
<p>We can tell girls (and boys) it’s rude and inappropriate, but I don’t think we need to lead them to believe it has to be scarring.</p>
<p>Actual abuse is something else.</p>
<p>And lest I sound uninformed, I worked in a rape/domestic violence/spousal abuse agency for two years, working with victims and the public. I was a Girl Scout speaker on many occasions, and I often took this tack.</p>
<p>Hysteria and teaching kids that any and all such incidents are scarring isn’t helping anyone.</p>
<p>Actual molestation is another story, of course, But even there, there are gradations.</p>
<p>S had a whacko second grade teacher who wanted to give all the kids a “Christmas kiss on the cheek.” Leave aside that we’re Jewish (I don’t care much about that in this context) I had a very shy son who didn’t want to be kissed. He was the only kid in the class who didn’t. She gave him a piece of candy and sneaked a kiss (on the cheek only for all the kids) while he was eating the candy. He really reacted to this, grades went down, felt violated.</p>
<p>His improved when the principal said that Mrs. So and So was completely wrong to invade his space but that he didn’t have to worry any more because nothing really bad happened to him and he shouldn’t feel guilty or dirty. She was wrong but he was okay.</p>
<p>I thought this was an enlightened approach and he recovered from all negative after affects immediately.</p>
<p>Creepy guys on a plane? I told my D it should not be more unpleasant than B.O. – something that might last the duration of the flight, was unpleasant to sit next to, but doesn’t do any real harm. She’s not made of sugar. Crying babies aren’t so much fun either. What can the guy actually do on a plane?</p>
<p>07DAD’s scenario is sad. It’s insulting for chaperone parents to be so mistrusted. The solution I see is to have male chaperone pairs. Then the list of nos will shrink if they go into rooms together. Sad it has to come to that, but some men (and women) do misbehave.</p>
<p>I quarrel with the demonizing of minor sexual things and putting them in a separate category. How about the mean mother-chaperone or the very mean teacher who does damage that lasts years. One of my D’s teachers in preschool was jealous of her waist length hair and beautiful complexion. She tormented her. “Who combed your hair today? Mommy or Daddy? Why don’t you wear a braid. Why don’t you get a haircut.” I could not get satisfaction from the school, and I was a working mom. I could just tell my kid the woman was hurt and angry. Why is that any less destructive?</p>
<p>Actual molestation is, of course, in its own category. But if we remove the knuckle headed stuff, there will be more energy for that, and we can allow kids to really differentiate their experience and become more articulate and stronger.</p>
<p>The parks situation sounds reasonable for the reasons given above. To keep them safe for children, yes, needles are not good. And even trash is unwelcome. As for the poor homeless people, that just makes me cry. I hope there are programs for them elsewhere, and if not, nicer benches in another part of the park.</p>
<p>Hm. Overweight folks on planes. Raise my hand to being one. NOT 300 POUNDS. It feel sad that someone wants to give me an angry look so I’ll sit somewhere else, but so be it. I am tiny, 5’2", so I don’t overflow any seat ever, but I bet seeing me you don’t know that. All I can say is that when I’m not on planes, many guys ELECT to sit next to me, like in Starbucks. Have had two invitations, one by someone in his thirties. I thought of recording it to play every day. Haha. </p>
<p>I fully expect to be flamed, but I am not saying that real sexual abuse doesn’t exist and do damage and that we shouldn’t be outraged about it. Of course we should. I am saying that children are stronger than we think, and we can teach them that although some experiences are unpleasant, they don’t have to damage them. (I don’t mean actual incidents of molestation which should be treated by a professional.)</p>
<p>I don’t know what we can do about the deeper problem – that men act out more but we love and need them. How can we balance all these things fairly? It’s very difficult.</p>
<p>Guys, sorry you are universally mistrusted. I am so glad you share my world with me.</p>
<p>At college my S had a very drunk girl climb in his bed and then pee on his books. He let her sleep in his bed. If he’d been prudent, he would have gotten some authority figure in immediately. He’s lucky she didn’t concoct some story about something he did to her. He was very compassionate; he let her sleep it off (until she woke up and peed; actually I think it was only next to his books, but she took them in the hallway with her.) He then spent the next Saturday night with her helping her not to drink since she’d already reached the point of having blackouts.</p>
<p>I’m proud of him, and because of him, I have a VERY personal stake in not demonizing boys and men.</p>
<p>I probably would, anyway, but he brings it very close to me.</p>
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<p>Yeah, because as was noted in a previous story about colleges and rape, the man would be kicked out of school to “allow equal opportunity to education under Title IX” and they require little burden of proof.</p>
<p>Profiling white males in Arizona, it seems to me.</p>
<p>Mythmom–I agree completely. What I did about chaperoning was walk into the first group gathering on each trip and tell the group that according to the rules they were not to be in a room with me one on one and without the door being open. I suggested that it was probably because they were afraid that Id get hurt or something, would need the help of the second boy to defend myself and I couldnt run or escape if the door was closed. This brought a laugh.</p>
<p>I always wondered if Id get tossed off the approved list if I went to the assistance of a boy who was choking in his room if he was the only one in there. </p>
<p>All this pales in comparison with what happened over the years when I took my niece alone (starting at age 9) clothes shopping at the Mall as a X-mas gift. I leave it to your imagination.</p>
<p>Mythmom, I applaud your post. Thanks for writing it!</p>
<p>Someone shared this line with me, but I never had the opportunity to use it:</p>
<pre><code> “You look like you were circumcized with a pencil sharpener!”
</code></pre>
<p>I am a mom and have been a hs chaperone, TB test included.</p>
<p>I told my D that if she’s ever flashed, she should bust out laughing.</p>
<p>Or say, “Oooh, you should get that looked at. Call your doctor right away.”</p>
<p>Yeah, I think we should stop. I know I started it, but these jokes can go on forever.</p>
<p>I was asked to leave the children’s area of B&N unless I was perusing children’s books for purchase. I sat down to read a children’s book that caught my eye. I am a middle aged woman verging on old age with streaks of gray in my hair and I do look kempt and dress decently. It’s their policy, so to give kids a safe spot, they say. </p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a good idea since it seems to me that it encourages leaving kids there alone and the store does not guarantee or provide someone to stay there to baby sit. If a kid leaves the area, it’s a problem.</p>
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<p>How does it encourage that? The parents would be with them.</p>
<p>At the two B&N near me, the children’s area does seem on occassion to be a “drop off” area for parents who are there shopping for themselves as well.</p>
<p>I agree with mythmom. I don’t get “worrying” over who my beautiful 19 yo daughter is sitting next to a plane, either. They are sitting on a plane, not drinking at a nightclub.</p>
<p>I worked in Barnes and Noble and I would not worry about grandpa in the kiddies section. The attractive 30-40 year old moms sure were targeted by some of the sales staff though. I used to watch one guy when I was working at the cash register and he was just amazing.</p>
<p>Just last night we had two cars at a sports event and had promised to drive a friend’s D home. We had two cars there, in part to get our daughter home as she had an early final today. I thought about taking D home and letting DH drive the friend’s D. Then I realized that could be seen as improper. So the propriety calculus was done, and I drove other other girl while DH took D. I don’t know how the other parents would have felt…but chose the socially safer option.</p>
<p>If the parents were in the area, why should unaccompanied adults be asked to leave? No, the reason given was it was to give unaccompanied kids a “safe haven” to sit and read books while parents looked elsewhere. I think that reasoning is just asking for trouble. Yes, I have left my minor kids in that area, but I am aware that I am taking a risk. If I wanted to stick around in that area and had bad intentions, all that I would have to do is pretend to peruse through the books instead of sitting in a chair, reading one.</p>
<p>Sad, just sad… judging a whole sex (males) by the actions of some creeps. This isn’t equality. I doubt any female is treated like this. </p>
<p>Guess, I better watch out though. Can’t take my female cousin (who is 8 years younger than me) shopping anywhere…</p>