<p>Marite- I could not pick up your message the pop up blocker stopped it!</p>
<p>Songman:</p>
<p>I wonder why? I was just enquiring about your S. I’d love to get an update!</p>
<p>Merrymom post #60 “My children had multiple tickets and accidents.”</p>
<p>Merrymom post #63 “In addition, when my older ones were teens, I was considered the most over-protective parent in the neighborhood. Everyone wanted their kids to hang out with my kids. They knew they’d be safe.”</p>
<p>Merrymom post #109 “My kids were better drivers than the other kids.”</p>
<p>HUH?!</p>
<p>Let’s not get personal about each others kids…it will turn this thread into another catfight, and God knows we have enough of those.</p>
<p>Chances are, people are going to get a ticket sometime in their lives. The question is when. I got my one and only ticket (I’m in my mid 40’s) when I was about 18. H has had, I believe, two tickets, both in his 40’s/50’s. So in my experience, I don’t necessarily see a young person having one mishap as an indication that they are incapable of driving responsibly. If anything, getting that ticket at such a young age made me a better driver than my peers. It sure was a wake-up call!</p>
<p>This doesn’t have much to do with the OP’s situation, but I did want to make the point that getting a ticket, one ticket, does not a monster at the wheel make.</p>
<p>I think a ticket at age 40 is different than a ticket at age 16. Neither is good - and there are a LOT of bad drivers out there who, make no mistake, imperil all of us - but just look at the statistics for 16 year olds.</p>
<p>songman, if you said “Open in a new window”, the pop-up blocker would probably stop the new window from opening. There are three ways around it: when you click “OK” to the “Open in new window” message, hold down the Ctrl key at the same time; say “No” to the Open in new window" message (so you would move from the page you’re on to the Message Inbox); or click the My Control Panel icon in the upper left, which will take to your Inbox.</p>
<p>Songman:</p>
<p>I could not receive your forwarded message!</p>
<p>I can’t open PM’s from the pop up window, but have no problem if I use the Private Message link at the top right of the page.</p>
<p>I’ve never gotten a ticket, but have been stopped twice in the neighboring town for doing dumb things. (Like going down a one way street the wrong way. Major oops!) As an apologetic middle aged woman they never do anything to me. I do think teens are less likely to get let off.</p>
<p>We have graduated licenses here, and not driving with other kids in the car for a period of time is one of the rules. A good one IMO.</p>
<p>I sent my older one off to college at 16, but she is now learning to drive (again) at 19 (and is a bit shaky!) Before going off, she had classes at three different colleges around town, and had to navigate the public transportation herself - there was no way we were going to trust her to drive, and no way we were going to drive her. It wasn’t punishment at all - we simply know our kid. My younger one learned at 15 1/2, is an excellent driver, and very, very responsible (sometimes I think overly so). </p>
<p>Trust depends on really knowing your kids and acting accordingly. It’s why I still think fasting is the best idea. But putting that aside, punishments are more often than not a recipe for even more mistrust. If you don’t trust her with your car, then simply say so, but don’t let it masquerade as “punishment”. And you could decide whether you trust your kid with the car whether she ever gets a ticket, or gets into an accident, or not. They don’t have to have anything to do with each other.</p>
<p>One of the things I had the kids do was to take the high school football bumper sticker off the back of the car. I figured that was basically an invitation- “Hey, I’m in high school and a dumb jock. Pull me over- I must be doing something wrong!”</p>
<p>Sort of along the lines of what mini is saying…
I don’t believe that just because a kid does NOT have a ticket, that makes him or her a good driver. Some of the kids I know that have received a moving violation are better drivers than those who haven’t- they just happened to get caught. I look at it this way- whether or not they have a traffic history, can they be trusted behind the wheel?</p>
<p>They are not perfect drivers, but neither am I. And God knows, with all the drivers around here over 80, 18 year olds do not hold the monopoly on risky drivers.</p>
<p>I see “trust” as having different meanings and covering two very different sets of concerns:
1 confidence in the ability of someone to drive well.<br>
2. justified belief that someone will not do something illegal or unethical.</p>
<p>In the case of the OP’s D, I was concerned about #2 far more than about #1.</p>
<p>My 16 1/2 year-old son got his drivers license just yesterday. In Oregon, you can get a permit at 15, license at 16. The rule here is no passengers under 21 except for siblings, for the first 6 months. He knows the rule; I hope he will not break it. We made him sign a driving contract last night.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that a reasonable punishment for the infraction of driving another teen should be 3 months of driving to/from school and work ONLY. Otherwise, take the bus (if available).</p>
<p>I agree with Marite, in that one’s attitude about driving and the obeying the law are what is questioned here, not one’s ability to drive well, or even making dumb mistakes in driving. Mistakes are certainly understandable and expected from new drivers. Driving friends around when your license doesn’t permit it is a different animal altogether. Which laws are ok to intentionally break?</p>
<p>Good luck, oregonianmom. I hear contracts are great tools. Make sure that your son knows it’s not just a “rule” that he not drive with friends yet-- it’s the law.</p>
<p>Weenie, having multiple accidents and tickets doesn’t mean they were major accidents and major tickets.</p>
<p>Yes, my children were and are now excellent drivers. They have had lots of experience and good teaching.</p>
<p>As I indicated earlier - if you live in a rural area, as I do, and your children drive frequently, they will have many incidents in their teens while driving.</p>
<p>Being overly punitive for a first infraction to a very contrite girl (as described by her mom) seems pointless to me. Reviewing the rules is more productive.</p>
<p>My daughter days ago completed her 12 month provisional license period. She is quite responsible with responsible friends. Last night I shared my uncertainty about driving friends. She was angry about my having concerns, and said unlike me ( I’ve driven for more than 25 years ), talking while driving does not impair her concentration. When I started reading this thread, I was impressed with the idea of a teen who would knowingly disregard the law. I work everday with all kinds of teens, and I believe I have a sense of what this means. I don’t believe my daughter would do this, and it would REALLY change things between us if I found out she did. On the other hand, it does not surprise me that she thinks she has “superior” concentration abilities. I think you have to put the behavior in context. For her, a higher level driving class might be a better reality check than ongoing “provisions”.</p>
<p>But, merrymom, don’t you see the difference between a fender-bender caused by misjudging how close you were to a car, or any mistake made in good faith (trying to do the right thing) and what the OP is talking about?<br>
Do you live in a place like California, where this has been a huge topic in homes and high school classes throughout the state? All kids getting their licenses here know this law and why it exists. They all can’t wait until their provisional licenses turn into regular ones. But their first licenses are provisional, with restrictions on times of day they can drive, as well as with whom. Choosing to take a friend is a concious decision to disregard the law- (it doesn’t apply to them ). That’s why I consider it immaturity. Not monsterous behavior worthy of flogging… just a reconsideration that the driver isn’t ready for the responsibility.
I guess I have just seen too many cases where new drivers are distracted by others in the car with dire results.</p>
<p>Lots of good ideas.</p>
<p>Hey, Mini, I think this fasting is making you brilliant. You wrote,
"If you don’t trust her with your car, then simply say so, but don’t let it masquerade as “punishment”.</p>
<p>On top of that, I second Marite’s fine tuning point in post #133, as it also added a subtle distinction to this conversation.</p>
<p>The OP is too new a driver for anybody to know how good a driver she really is or will be (Merrymom sent my thinking in that new direction). </p>
<p>What is known is that she broke a trust from the parent. The parent trusts the law (for those who see the violation of law as a central point here). For a loving and contrite daughter, as OP indicates hers is, it’s a larger impact to show by action that your trust needs to be rebuilt, than to punish per se. “I’m disappointed in you” is an awful message for a good daughter to hear.</p>
<p>As Mini says, take in the keys, but claim it and make it an I statement…“tell her so”… that she shook your confidence in her and until that’s mended, you’re not willing to hand over Your keys to Your car.</p>
<p>(I guess nobody liked my idea of volunteering time in a hospital…oh well.)</p>
<p>I find it somewhat amazing that some posters find the suggested consequence of taking away driving privileges extreme. This kid has her licence for 12 days. If she had failed her drivers test the week+ before, the State would have inflicted this “punishment”. Someone mentioned she was pulled over for driving without her lights. To me it seems pretty clear this youngster was not ready to fly solo. Restricting her driving is not punishment, it’s good parenting and may save someone’s life. Driving at night with your lights off? Good Grief!</p>
<p>In our state kids can get their permits at 14 and their license at 16. At times it seems 14 is WAY to young to be driving, but on the other hand kids have 2 winters (on snow for 7 months) and lots of night driving (which lasts all day) under their belt (with a parent beside them) before hitting the streets alone. IMHO, a permit for 6 month does not give you enough exerience before driving solo.</p>