Please name some research universities that treat their undergrads like they are at a LAC

My son has decided that he would really prefer a research university. He likes the idea of a vibrant research community with grad students, along with a larger undergraduate student body. However, LACs have some very appealing attributes too.

Can you help us create a list of research universities that seem to care about their undergraduates and teaching, that have a well-defined campus, that intentionally work on creating a community (examples: residential college systems, or entry ways) and where most students live on campus for the four years they are there?

It’s a bonus if they are not right in a big city because he wants to be able to go for long runs without filling his lungs with air pollution and worrying too much about safety.

So far we have come up with Princeton and Yale (but those are reaches for anyone, and he is making an exception about the city thing for Yale), Tufts said they were a R1 with a liberal arts philosophy for undergrad so that’s a possibility, and Dartmouth is also on the list.

We’d like help building a list with a greater range of admissions chances (not all reaches).

Fortunately, my son has good stats:
35 ACT, unweighted 4.0 GA in most rigorous curriculum, all 5s in 9 AP exams so far with four more being planned as a senior, 1580 new SAT, 1520 PSAT (NMSF), SAT II 800 World Hist, and 780 Math 2.

He is also a varsity team captain, and president of his school’s math honor society/club. However, he has not won any national awards or competitions (other than a gold level on the Grand Concours National French exam) or published original research papers.

He is thinking of majoring in history or linguistics or computer science, but really he just loves learning. He has a true sense of intellectual curiosity.

We are not looking for any financial aid. He can be full-pay anywhere.

But I am aware that lots of kids with these stats don’t get in to the tippy top schools, so I am wondering where else he might be happy.

Plan II at UT-Austin. His stats are high enough out of state. It was the ideal mix in my opinion. We visited, kid sat in on a class, met students, overall very impressive. I liked it better than the top LACs we visited because the student would be in a LAC type environment within a major university. Have been searching for something similar ever since so will watch thread. Also liked larger private schools of Rice and Case Western.

Notre Dame, Rice and Wake Forest.

Notre Dame is 75% undergrad and its residential system is the house system, meaning students associate with one residence for 4 years. ND undergrads living off campus is almost unheard of. Even with a 35 he is in the middle 50% but as a team captain he is the ND profile student.

I would have said ND and Rice as well.

@CP2020, yes ND is a great school, but no a 35 ACT isn’t in the middle of the 50% - it’s top 25% as appropriate given there are only ~25,000 applicants in the country that achieve that level

@Chembiodad The middle 50% range stated for the class of 2020 is 33-35. In prior years it had been 32-34. There is a press release if you want to check it for yourself. SAT was 1420-1540.

I think Penn might be a good reach as well; though Penn might not be a perfect fit for what your son is interested in since it’s urban. Much like Yale, Penn has quartered off quads and green spaces in the midst of a larger city and it creates a balance between city and campus. Philly is unique from New Haven, however, in that it has much more well curated green space for students. In fact, Penn’s campus is adjacent to a number of beautiful parks that students often run around in the nicer weather. Penn Park has also added 24 more green acres to campus that your son can take advantage of. Penn’s campus is also not in the exact heart of Philly and thus it doesn’t feel urban in the same way Columbia does.

Despite the campus in a city, however, I think it might be a good fit for him academically. Penn’s college of arts and sciences is an extremely well integrated liberal arts college in an ivy league research university. The vast majority of classes have 25 students or fewer and 95% of classes are taught by full professors, not TAs/graduate students/adjuncts. Furthermore, because Penn has 3 professional undergrad schools that serve students’ interests in addition to the College, you’ll find that those in the College are intensely dedicated to the liberal arts in a way that isn’t possible at universities that don’t offer professional options, thereby forcing their students interested in business or engineering into “business-related” or “engineering-related” liberal arts courses. That is often intellectually dissatisfying to students with genuine interests in business/engineering and frustrating for liberal arts students who don’t want uninterested students distracting from the liberal arts experience.

Additionally, if your son likes the idea of grad students being around undergrads and adding to their resources, Penn might be the best choice for him. Penn has a nearly equal number of graduate and undergraduate students. Penn undergrads are also able to take advantage of the classes, research opportunities, professors, and resources of the graduate/professional schools through the One University Policy. Some of Penn’s professional schools even cross list their courses with the undergrad schools to encourage undergrads to sign up and participate. No other ivy has made the vast resources of its entire university more fully available to its undergrads. It’s the perfect place for a student who genuinely cares about the undergraduate experience but also wants to be able to partake in groundbreaking research or be able to get a taste of graduate work while still in undergrad in order to test the waters.

Penn does have a College House system but it’s more similar to Princeton’s in that students are unlikely to stay in the same college house for all four years. instead, students switch college houses after one to two years and others move off campus. Off campus at Penn, however, means living barely a block from several of Penn’s College Houses in converted victorian mansions that are owned by the university and leased by a housing company or living in one of the apartment buildings on walnut/chestnut streets like The Radian or Domus (both built by Penn for Penn students and the penn community). Penn’s campus and the surrounding area are also extremely safe. Penn police patrol the entire campus and surrounding area and the streets to the west of Penn are now a destination for students looking to get good brunch food or go to a bar that’s a little closer to campus. Penn has invested billions in changing the area around its campus and it has been tremendously successful.

Finally, if he’s interested in history, linguistics and computer science, Penn is a good choice in that he can easily double major between the College and Engineering without having to get a dual degree, transfer between schools, or fulfilling all of the curricular requirements of both schools. Instead, the College and the School of Engineering have made their majors open to students in both schools without needing to overcome the administrative barriers you might find at other schools. Additionally, if he were to choose to major in the college or engineering but he realizes that he made the wrong choice, he can always transition to the other school without having to completely transfer universities. And, again, thanks to the one university policy, he can always take classes in Penn’s other undergraduate, professional and graduate schools to supplement his education in what ever way he deems best.

I was attracted to Penn because it was the epitome of a liberal arts college working within the context of a highly accessible ivy league research university. I actually ended up choosing Penn over Yale, Columbia and a number of other ivies/great schools because I felt it would allow me to have the most fulfilling liberal arts experience while still feeling both invited and able to take advantage of this research powerhouse.

I’m happy to answer any questions you or your son might have about Penn. Good luck in the college process :slight_smile:

Northwestern. Res Colleges, smallest school in B1G Ten, on the lake, by Chicago, great research school. My son also had all 5s in AP tests - this allowed him to enter as a “freshman with sophomore standing”, and he was able to springboard off that and graduate in 4 years with a MS and BS in Engineering.
http://www.northwestern.edu/research-nu/
BTW - I have 2 kids that are NU alums, so PM me if you have questions.

Out of the 1,924,436 students who took the ACT in the graduating class of 2015, only 1,598 had a composite score of 36, 8,496 had a 35 and 15,829 had a 34.

https://forms.act.org/newsroom/data/2015/pdf/profile/National2015.pdf

Here is the ND student profile:

http://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/

Duke, Wake Forest, Rice, UMiami (FL), Northwestern, Georgetown (GU is in the city but it is quite easy to get over the bridges to Va. and go for a the National Parkland, Dartmouth. Also, larger LACs such as U Richmond have grad students around and great research opportunities.

U Rochester, Case Western, Tulane, U Richmond?

He should visit University of Pittsburgh. Schenley Park is right there to run.

And the honors college values double/triple majoring in different areas.

I second Rice, Northwestern and ND.

Also: Boston College.

With his stats he had a good chance at all of those.

Would some of the large flagships with solid Honors Programs also act like LACs?

History and CS tend to be popular majors, so introductory level courses can be quite large. Linguistics is less common, but if the presence of that major is important, it may limit the available colleges. Many colleges show class sizes in their on-line class schedule web sites, so if that is the LAC attraction, looking at these class schedule web sites could be something to do.

Due to the popularity of CS exceeding departmental capacity at many schools, he may want to investigate whether the college allows for direct admission to the CS major; if not (or if he is offered general admission), he may want to investigate how competitive secondary admission to the CS major will be after enrolling (see http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19854939/#Comment_19854939 ).

UCSB College of Creative Studies…https://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/

You can make your own major and UCSB has some wonderful research opportunities.

Some students live on campus or in campus housing all four years. It’s the only UC that currently has a path to this type of living arrangement. Their college of engineering is quite is quite small. About 2k students out of a total student body of around 22k. Of those 2K - about 1200 are undergraduates.

Admission to the COE is very competitive and is not reflected in the overall admission statistics. (ME for example has an admissions rate of about 12%).

UCSB is not actually in Santa Barbara but rather in Goleta. It has great air quality and almost everyone rides a bike. As for taking long runs…there’s the BEACH!

@TrudiRexar I really don’t have a school recommendation, but I did pick up on the part that your son wants to do long runs. Assuming he was possibly on the XC team, I’d recommend you encourage him to keep up some running like that as it keeps them in a routine and I think helps keep their brain sharp. Going out for an early morning run like he might be used to can prevent that freshman tendency to sleep in until noon. We actually had the quality of running areas at colleges on our spreadsheet when ours was choosing. While not the most important factor, don’t underestimate it either.

I think your son has an excellent chance at getting into the “tippy top” schools and many of them do have the LAC attitude/research U opportunity that you’re looking for. But I also think you’re doing right by him to look beyond the usual suspects for “likely” (I’ve grown to hate the “safety” descriptor) options.

You’ve got some great suggestions already—NU (which is a tough admission RD, but substantially easier ED), ND (underestimated outside the midwest, IMO), Rice (also underestimated by folks outside of its region). Also, as mentioned, Rochester is likely more of a “safety” choice for him, sort of the epitome of a LAC experience within a research uni, and he’d be a good candidate for a Renaissance scholarship, which has perks that go beyond financial. I don’t know a lot about CMU, but that was another school that came to my mind immediately given his interests.

The other thing he might look at is elite scholarship positions within prestigious big unis like UVA (Jefferson) and UNC/Duke (Robertson).

Chicago sounds like a good fit academically/intellectually/residentially for your son though it’s location in Hyde Park might not be to his liking. If you go east a bit to the lake you’ll find parks/running trials. I’d say UPenn is very similar so I’m not sure he’d like either environment though things are much closer regarding UPenn. I’ve never thought of UPenn as LAC-like and more ‘vocational’ than LACs tend to be. Nonetheless both schools are reaches.

As far as more match and safeties you can look at Honor schools at major publics like Pitt. I was impressed at the academic offerings of Pitt in my D’s intended area of study and they do have Living Learning Communities (LLCs) including Honors. It’s hard to tell how well these LLCs actually help simulate a smaller school within a larger school.

Washington University in St. Louis. It is adjacent to Forest Park which has an extensive network of running trails as well as free museums and a world class zoo. It’s more suburban than urban but is connected to downtown St. Louis by public transportation. Pretty sure it’s Research I status and about 6K undergrads or thereabouts. Admission is quite competitive but so are his stats.

What’s your budget and will you need need-based or merit aid?