Michigan Honors Program
I guess we all have different definitions of ‘large classes’ - to me, it means 40 and more students, because you can’t have a discussion with that many students. A big LAC vs. Research university difference is the frequency of discussion- based classes vs. lecture-based classes. The difference is especially important in the humanities.
(there were people at a LAC who thought 18-20 students was a large class because it was 1/3 larger than what they were used to.)
In case your son decides to go full-tilt STEM and likes a nerdy student body in a small town, then I’d add RPI to the list. My D is quite happy there. Excellent academics and industry connections.
My daughter attends one of the larger schools mentioned in post #35 and while many of her classes are smaller (under 40), her intro science lectures have been large (150-200). They were taught as flipped classrooms and were definitely conversation based, encouraging interaction and not straight lecture.
Just to clarify, ASU’s honors college is called Barrett (not Bennett). My high-stat D visited recently and loved the setup. The dean used to be Swarthmore’s president. They offer full tuition scholarships for NMFs; hence, there are a lot of them. The linguistics program does not appear to be that strong, though. It is a Concentration within the English department.
Wake Forest, a strong research university, with a small LAC feel.
@TrudiRexar I have a daughter currently at Rice and we live in the south. The heat and humidity isn’t that oppressive during the school year. It really lasts for about a month. Two at the most. Traffic in Houston is horrible most students don’t have a need for a vehicle. They have passes for free public transportation. There is a large park, the zoo, museums, restaurants, and shops all within walking distance. My daughter also have severe allergies and asthma, after spending the summer at Rice she did not have any major issues with her health. She is very sensitive to smog.
OP if you don’t want warm climates that would knock out Tulane, ASU, Miami and Rice.
Personally a school with an average daytime temperature in the 60s or 70s November through April would seem to be a huge plus. Especially when compared to the alternative and the frigid temperatures in New England, Chicago, Upstate New York, etc throughout much of the school year.
Mentioning one from each of two athletic conferences, I’d suggest Princeton and URochester.
MIT has about 4,500 undergraduate students (and about 6,800 graduate students). It does offer majors in computer science, history, and linguistics (although much of the linguistics course work is graduate level; see http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/courses/ and http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/undergraduate/ ). General education requirements are heavy, though (about 25% in science and math and another 25% in humanities, arts, and social studies).
However, CS (6.xxx) classes can be large, though it appears that history (21H.xxx) and linguistics (24.xxx) classes may be smaller, based on http://web.mit.edu/registrar/classrooms/csb/csbindex.shtml (consider the number of recitation sections associated with each lecture).
@TrudiRexar I’m sorry that your alum interviewer gave you such a bad impression. If he went to Penn around or before 1990, it’s possible that his impression wasn’t all that far off from reality. However, in the 90s Judith Rodin (the first female president of an Ivy League University) took over at Penn and radically transformed it in every way possible. Rodin, a Penn grad herself, had just left her post in the administration at Yale where she picked up a lot of great ideas about building community and creating a genuine campus in an urban environment. She invested a TON of money into the College of Arts and Sciences as well, thereby turning its already strong programs into some of the most outstanding sources of teaching and scholarship in the country. Money was poured into History, English, Psychology, Sociology, Criminology, Economics and more with fantastic results. She invested a ton in humanities research at the undergraduate level with CURF (center for Undergraduate Research and fellowship) that resulted in Penn experiencing an enormous uptick in Rhodes Scholars and other scholarship winners of that ilk (previously, Penn placed very little emphasis on Rhodes/Marshal/etc. scholarships- it just wasn’t a major concern for the administration or students. Today the complete opposite is true). She renovated almost every building, added nearly 100 acres to the campus and paved the way for Amy Gutmann (Penn’s current President) to remake College Green, Shoemaker Green, the Quad, the 24 acres of formerly ugly industrial space that is now Penn Park, Hill Field, Locust walk and more. Together they reduced class sizes across Penn’s undergrad schools, brought the student to faculty ratio to 6:1 (lower than Dartmouth’s 7:1 ratio), created the College House system at Penn (residential colleges), and they deeply transformed the surrounding area with new restaurants, shops, book stores, clothing stores, and more green space. They were so successful in turning around Penn’s area in a sustainable way that Harvard actually adopted many of Penn’s approaches when working with their Allston campus (It helps that the President of Harvard is a Penn Grad who witnessed these transformations herself at her alma mater). The Penn of 2016 doesn’t even look like it did when I matriculated with all of the new buildings and green spaces. And that only details some of the changes to the undergrad experience; never mind the changes these incredible women brought to the Law School, Med School, HUP/CHOP and more. That’s not to say there won’t be finance majors at Penn- of course there will be! With the best undergrad business school on campus, it’s no secret that there is a pre-professional vibe at Penn generally (as there is at most Ivies. A few years ago all four of dartmouth’s valedictorians went into Investment Banking after graduation and they weren’t unique among ivy grads). And all of Penn’s schools are so deeply integrated that there is often a cross-pollination of ideas and perspectives between the undergrad schools and the grad/professional schools. They influence each other in the most incredible ways. At the same time, the College works incredibly hard to ensure that students get the quintessential LAC experience in balance and concert with all of the other amazing resources that this research university has to offer. Today, I can’t think of a better place for a student who loves the humanities, arts & sciences, but also wants their education to be infused with the energy and vibrancy of a research university.
I encourage you to visit and to and do an info session with actual students from the College of Arts and Sciences to hear even more about the perspectives of current students in the school (College Info Sessions: http://www.collegecognoscenti.com/)
Also, I should mention that 44th and walnut is not actually Penn’s campus. Penn sits mostly between the River and 40th between Spruce and Walnut. That being said, even the off campus areas at Penn are quite charming because they were built as a ‘trolley cart suburb’ to center city. As a consequence, there isn’t a majorly urban feel around Penn’s campus as there might be at Columbia because the streets are lined with victorian mansions, not low rises or sky scrapers: http://wpre.designsbyangela.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/West-Philadelphia-Real-Estate-Spruce-Hill-500-S.-45th-Street-1024x768.jpg
College Green: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55704b40e4b0b6329c59e5ef/t/557db464e4b003675238ffec/1434301545660/CollegeHall-Large.jpg?format=1500w
Shoemaker Green: http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/sites/default/files/styles/maplocation_640x400px/public/bi5400.jpg?itok=hbt_DZTr
The Quad: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/asset.plexuss.com/college/overview_images/3523_university-of-pennsylvania_05.jpg
Penn Park: http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/sites/default/files/pictures/south_field_penn_park.jpg
Hill Field & the New College House: (http://www.intechconstruction.com/current_projects/images/NCH-August-(1).jpg)
Locust Walk: https://res.cloudinary.com/roadtrippers/image/upload/c_fill,h_316,w_520/v1425572763/locust-walk-2129673.jpg
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As PennCAS2014 says Penn and the area around it have improved considerably in the last 25 years but make no mistake it is still a very urban campus. I’d recommend a visit along with Princeton since they aren’t that far from each other.
One of my children went to Penn and the other two to Princeton. I’m not a huge fan of Penn’s intro classes. They were fairly large and there was little evidence that the administration cared about the inconsistency of many of the professors. The upper level classes were much better, but I think there are probably better choices for your son. Also, in case you don’t know, Penn has a new ED admissions policy which restricts other application to public universities and universities where you must apply early to be considered for scholarships.
Like others, I would recommend U of Rochester as a relatively safe option, Dartmouth, Princeton, Wash U and Tufts. He could look at Boston College (has an EA option if he doesn’t apply anywhere ED or SCEA) and might consider Pomona (could major in CS there and also take courses at Harvey Mudd). Not an R1 research university but there are some excellent research opportunities there.
Have you considered a 3+2 liberal arts college / computer engineering program? Would seem like the best of both.
^ Beware of that extra year (and cost) for the 3+2 option, that any merit aid in the first school may not apply to the second, and that admission in the second school may not be automatic but competitive.
OP said they are full pay not looking for aid.
@PennCAS2014 Fascinating description, as I am from Philly, it was interesting to learn about these changes at U Penn. To be precise, though, Harvard University President Drew Faust went to Bryn Mawr College for her undergraduate education, and got her Ph.D. from U Penn in the '70s and then was a faculty member at U Penn through the '90s. So, President Faust experienced U Penn’s transformation as a faculty member, not undergrad or grad student.
I am a proud parent of daughters who are alums of Brandeis and University of Rochester. Both fit the bill of what you are looking for.
Good point @ucbalumnus . I suspect only at a LAC can you get through a major like CS with ALL small classes.
@Midwestmomofboys that’s correct- she is a BMC undergrad - I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.I just meant that she had first hand knowledge and experience with Penn’s transformation because she did her PhD there and taught there through the 90s as you mention. 