<p>From browsing these threads I see that kids from poor families can get financial aid, kids from rich families can pay full freight, and kids from middle class families can pay some and borrow some. But what about kids with poor mothers and wealthy noncustodial fathers who contribute nothing once the child turns 18? I know that colleges want these fathers to pay, but is it fair to punish the child? Do colleges ever offer financial aid to these students? If the child can somehow go to college, will universities offer these graduates financial aid for graduate or professional school?</p>
<p>There’s lots of financial aid for PhD programs but little for professional programs. The rich dad, if he has been in your life and paid child support will be expected to pay for college though.</p>
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<p>You don’t have to come from a divorce situation to run into this problem. Some parents feel that a kid should pay for college themselves and won’t contribute any college $$. (It’s usually a family where the father put himself through school without any help from HIS family.) Some say, we’ll pay for one year and you are on your own after that.</p>
<p>I’m far from an expert on fin aid, so help me out parents–I remember a thread about a poster who got great aid from School A (a public) and lousy aid from School B (a private) because one of the fin aid methodologies only counted the custodial mom’s low salary. If that is the case, then it would behoove you to apply to those schools who use the methodology that favors your situation.</p>
<p>As for punishing the child - I agree with LMNOP. Some parents are loath to pay more money than they “have to,” or see college as a bill that isn’t theirs. Ultimately, though, finacial aid is a zero-sum game; what is given to one kid is not given to another. So you would be punishing the children of parents who want to pay and who tighten belts to pay, and allowing the dad to get a free ride.</p>
<p>Ultimately, IMO, it isn’t the college’s job to rectify poor divorce planning. Unless you live in a cave, you should know that college costs (even back in 1990) would be significant. Divorce settlements can contain clauses that obligate one or both parents to pay a certain amount for college. (I know that y’all hate lawyers, but consider this as one time when they can prevent problems years down the road.)</p>
<p>Just a final thought… not trying to bash anyone here… but it would be very hard for me to pay alimony, child support, and then to pay for college when I had not been a part of the decision-making process or a big part of my kid’s life. Even if the legal document does not give rise to the obligation, however, I would want to pay if I were able to be close to my kid and know that I was a part of the college process. This just might be the time when using the kid & custody as a weapon against the other parent comes back to haunt. Not saying that everyone does this, but the best way to get a non-custodial parent to pony up huge amounts of money for college (when he’s trying to retire or pay off his mortgage or put kids from a remarriage through school) is for that parent to CARE about the kid. Loving parents sacrifice a lot. Second piece is to have a long-established relationship of working with your ex - part of which is encouraging the kids to have a relationship with their mom or dad, even if they don’t live together. </p>
<p>My two cents. I was raised by my dad, fwiw. My stepfamily paid college.</p>
<p>ariesathena wrote: “Divorce settlements can contain clauses that obligate one or both parents to pay a certain amount for college.”</p>
<p>True enough. Unfortunately, those clauses are very difficult to enforce, particularly if the custodial parent doesn’t have wads and wads of cash to keep going back to court constantly trying to collect. I have many co-workers who are low income single parents, and it is almost impossible for them to get enforcement of child support for food and medication for their children, no matter how much the father earns; how likely is it that there will be enforcement of money for college? There is a huge difference between having a plan and having the means to enforce that plan. Sadly, the parent who refuses to spend money on his or her child generally has more resources to work the legal system to his or her advantage than the parent whose money goes to keep the little ones alive.</p>
<p>Edited because I interpreted something you said unfairly, in my original response.</p>
<p>Completely agree that, for some people, the money is never going to come.</p>
<p>That does not mean, however, that you can’t at least have a clause in the divorce agreement for this - you’re never giving the other spouse the choice to NOT pay if you don’t have it mapped out beforehand.</p>
<p>Divorce is nasty - no question about that. I can’t help thinking, though, that the “college” problem has a long, long history - not just in not paying child support obligations as they become due, but the way in which BOTH parents interact to create the dynamic. Parents who are invested emotionally have an easier time with the financial investment. </p>
<p>Of course, if the ex is deservedly an ex, then it’s a different situation - but consider that college, at $200,000 for private school (roughly), is worth litigating over. Frequent, small dollar amounts are not worth litigating (unless you have the resources for a moral fight); however, college is worth bringing to court if one spouse is rich and can pay it all.</p>
<p>OP: work on identifying schools where you can get merit aid. Lots of these schools are out there!</p>
<p>Actually, I’d work on the rich father. If he is indeed rich, your college costs with be a blip on his radar. Does he understand his wealth will preclude your attendng most top colleges? Oh the guilt!!</p>
<p>Thank you all for your responses.</p>
<p>Conyat, you are so right. It is hard for a poor parent to get more than minimal child support against a rich spouse who digs in his heels. If adequate support before 18 is impossible, it is even more impossible to get support for college. A father who desires not to be a father and only sends the checks until he can quit doesn’t care about college. It is the mother who feels guilt because she can’t help–especially when the settlement says that she must pay half in order to get enforcement for the father to pay half. I suspect that many of you are such good and supportive parents that you almost can’t imagine a parent who only thinks, “Good riddance.” And the problem might be more widespread than colleges know. Many of these students simply give up. A truly excellent student can get merit aid, but a student who is merely a good student has little hope of merit aid.</p>
<p>Couldn’t colleges do better for these students? After all, colleges do decide which families can pay and which can’t. Can’t colleges do a little more about helping students when a parent who does not care about the child will not pay? </p>
<p>Do any of you know about the colleges ellemenope mentioned that only consider the mother’s income?</p>
<p>I have been interested in the thread about the unaffordability of dream schools. Most of the children of a parent (or parents) who will not pay don’t even have the dream. The above-mentioned excellent student dreams of HYPSMC, but he will discover that those schools do not give merit aid. But he will get to go somewhere–What about the others?</p>
<p>Does anyone know whether college admissions officers read what we write?</p>
<p>If colleges will start giving need-based aid to students who claim that the father “does not want to pay” for their education, very soon there will be no fathers willing to pay. I wouldn’t be too surprised if people would consider getting a divorce for a few years just to “get their children through college” and save $200,000 per child…</p>
<p>There is a handful of other threads addressing this issue which I try to follow - I don’t have the links at hand but urge the OP to search CC a bit. On one or two of these threads I’ve offered my bit of experience and will repeat it here. The methodology a school uses to figure financial aid is disclosed on its financial aid website. FAFSA-only schools (Federal methodology) will give you aid based on your custodial parent’s income alone. Many state systems follow this formula. Our experience includes SUNY schools and UC Berkeley. NYU is FAFSA-only, too and even though they don’t guarantee meeting 100% need they came through for us. CSS/FAFSA schools (institutional methodology) make their own rules, although there are groups of schools which state they follow common guidelines. We did not find this to be the case and for these schools I strongly advocate talking in person to financial aid officers early (end of junior year) to find out what their policies are regarding noncustodial information, if they ever waive it, and what is needed for a successful waiver case. It’s a lot of work but it is worth it to both find the school(s) that will work with you and avoid those that will not help you. We encountered two Ivies that were pretty inflexible but one that was extremely helpful and understanding, which my daughter will attend next year. I might compile my own list of FAFSA-only schools and post it later this month. For all others, make the personal contact, because every family situation is unique.</p>
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<p>Yes, this is what I thought I remembered from the earlier thread, but wasn’t sure. Thank you, Amatricia, for bringing your expertise to the question.</p>
<p>Yes, thank you amatricia, and you, too, ellemenope. I will search for those threads.</p>
<p>nngmm: You question whether any father will pay if these fathers don’t have to. In fact, I think I know of a couple who filed for divorce so that the child could get financial aid. The child lived with the father for his last year in high school, and the mother (who was the richer parent) paid no child support. </p>
<p>BUT–most of the children that I am thinking of did not have much of any relationship with the richer parent. If colleges can sort out the poor families from those who cheat on the FAFSA and sort out an URM student from the student who checks the ethnic box based on family anecdotal evidence having nothing to do with being presently disadvantaged, why can’t colleges discover which students truly have an absentee parent who doesn’t care?</p>
<p>I haven’t taught in a good while, but I know some of the clues to finding these students. They often join every activity at school that takes place during school hours, but never attend after-school ECs because they have no transportation except the school bus. They often don’t have a driver’s license because they can’t afford the extra car insurance. They speak up in class, but are quiet outside of class. They are often adequately clothed and fed, but they don’t attend proms or have stylish clothes. They usually don’t have enought social clout to get high school nominations for college perks or to get local scholarships. </p>
<p>These students are an untapped national treasure. For reasons that I have never understood, most of these students are girls.</p>
<p>“For reasons that I have never understood, most of these students are girls.”</p>
<p>Possibly, it is because noncustodial fathers may be more likely to maintain relationships with sons than with daughters. </p>
<p>Or perhaps boys without a father in their lives are more likely than girls in the same situation to have serious problems. You might not even think about whether or not they can afford to go to college because you are so concerned about whether or not they can stay out of trouble with the law. I know a young girl with an uninvolved father who is a National Merit Semifinalist. Somehow I can’t see that happening to a boy living in the same circumstances.</p>
<p>OK, lets back off from the stereotypes here. I too am the custodial mom of kids with a flaky dad – I never got one cent from him beyond what he was legally obligated to pay, and even that was always late-- up to a year behind in payments. </p>
<p>But I managed to also figure out how to get my kids transported back & forth to wherever they needed to go… and my daughter has gone to the prom every single year of high school (the kid buys off the clearance rack and uses ebay to accessorize!) - and my son did not grow up to be a criminal. In fact, my son was a National Merit Finalist. My son also has supported himself since age 20- if he learned anything at all, he learned to stand on his own two feet. </p>
<p>So yes… we single moms have it tough and colleges really should not cut our kids off because of income their dad’s manage to hide from us… but I think most of us also manage to raise healthy, well-adjusted sons & daughters.</p>
<p>And those healthy, well-adjusted sons and daughters should go to college just like all the other kids and with as much access to funds.</p>
<p>Algu,<br>
as others have said, different schools look at noncustodial parents differently. And it also matters to some schools whether or not you were ever married to the noncustodial parent. In our case, I was never married to my son’s noncustodial parent and every school he applied to looked at our situation differently. Some schools like MIT suggested I appeal when they wanted more than my son’s noncustodial parent was willing to pay. They wanted info on how much contact my son had with the noncustodial parent. We ended up not filling an appeal at MIT as my son decided on Caltech which gave him a nice financial aid package - and only asked the non-custodial parent for the amount she said she was willing to pay rather than using her EFC which was substantially more. (My son has no “father” and two moms). It was also really helpful to me that schools like Caltech & MIT were willing to show on the financial aid offer how much money is to come from me (the custodial parent - & I’m on disability) and how much is to come from the noncustodial parent who makes a decent living. Single moms can and do raise amazing kids! Good luck! Oh yes, my understanding is that graduate school is very different - many kids get assistantships so financial aid isn’t the same issue that it is for undergraduate studies.(If I’m wrong about this I’m sure someone will respond.)</p>
<p>Thanks, calmom for the spirited defense. My daughter loves dances and proms, and is a National Merit Finalist, too. She seems to be in pretty good shape.</p>
<p>This is such a complicated issue powerfully affecting a subset of college applicants. Are there any books or articles out there addressing it? I haven’t found any. It deserves research.</p>
<p>You might want to indentify schools which will be counting only you as a parent, if your child lives with you and/or you pay more that 50% of child support. Those schools will be usually ones that use federal methodology and some of them private and some are public. Rule of thumb federal methodology is using FAFSA and no CSS profile. You might want to identify schools where your child is likely to receive merit aid. Also some schools will take into acount info about your ex having other family, not being in contact with you/your child. Lets say your ex is remarried and has other kids or his spouse has other kids who go to college etc.
It will take filling out some papers about extenuating circumstances but fin aid officers are allowed to make judgement call and caclulate your need differently.
When you visit colleges make sure you stop by fin aid office and have a talk with them. Most schools in upper league will want NCP statement and contribution from 2 parents/ 4 parents etc.
Some schools have system calculating your FAFSA numbers including your child GPA/ACT/SAT scores and coming up with your child desirability numbers- the lower FAFSA/higher scores the more money offers you will see from this school.
Do your research and do not despair. Also having good working relationship with ex might be just a solution. It is not you who needs money, it is your child and ex might be willing to help out.</p>
<p>And oaklandmom - I had to pry information about what percentage my ex was expected to pay out of the school that demanded it. I’m intrigued that the same information was offered to you. More evidence that individual schools follow very different policies.</p>