<p>Amatricia - I have the same problem. The college doesn’t want to tell me how much the ex is supposed to pay. I’ve just had to do what I have done all along… ignore the ex, ignore what is <em>supposed</em> to happen, and focus on what I am able to do on my own.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the replies and good advice. I still have one question that I asked early on: “If colleges can sort out the poor families from those who cheat on the FAFSA and sort out an URM student from the student who checks the ethnic box based on family anecdotal evidence having nothing to do with being presently disadvantaged, why can’t colleges discover which students truly have an absentee parent who doesn’t care?” I am glad that some colleges provide for fatherless and/or motherless children, and I am glad that some of these kids prosper with just one parent and that some of them can get merit aid. And yet–the rest of these kids seem an odd group for college admissions people to overlook.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your care and concern and contributions. This is a very interesting and enlightening forum!</p>
<p>Algu,</p>
<p>I really feel for your situation and as a single parent I understand your situation. I also understand that from the college’s standpoint, they feel that the students parents should be the first step in paying for their child’s education. while yes, it is not a legal obligation, but it is a social and a moral obligation.</p>
<p>when a parent feels that they"don’t want to" for whatever the reason, they are essentially sending the message to let someone else’s parents pay for your education. Keep in mind that the source most of the endowment money that is used to finance need based FA, comes from “other people’s parents.” </p>
<p>Colleges are not going put themselves in the business of mediating with families especially when a family member (such as the rich non-custodial parent) makes a conscious decison not to be an active participant in their kid’s life or feels that their role stops when the child turns 18 and does not to help finance their education. they are not going to hold a gun to anyone’s head to make them pay, the schools just try to set up a process (good or bad) that is consistent.</p>
<p>when you are looking at a price tag or $40,000 for private education, a lot of people don’t want *** to pay it. But the concept of financial aid is not one based want, but one *** need</p>
<p>nngmm, basically hit the nail on the head</p>
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<p>when it comes to financial aid, you will find that every thing is situational and schools look at things on a case by case basis. I work in HR, so gosh you hear pretty much all of it. Some there are some kids who don’t know their parents, never seen them, kids with dead parents, incarcerated parents, homeless parent, if you look around you can always find a person with a situation worse than yours… I know one of my good friends is guardian to her nephews whose mother is deceased and father is in jail for next 20 years. I remember there was a cc poster, Candi, whose family was living on public assistance and her ncp was very well off. I have met parents who ran away from abusive situations with their kids and had to explain to the school that they cannot contact their ncp for their own protection.</p>
<p>Sometimes divorce can be very nasty and we as parents can get so caught up in hurt feelings that our kids become collateral damage because one parent feels the only way they can "stick it’ to the other parent is through the child because we use our kids against the parents. with half of all marriages ending in divorce, I think we as parents have to do a better job of saying even though our relationship as a couple is over, we are still parents and we’re not going to kill our kids our our stuff. But the other side of the coin is that there are a lot of divorced parents that work it out are doing the right thing by thier kids.</p>
<p>Most schools ahave a process for how they deal with the ncp. Some schools will give you a waiver for your ncp but the process is not easy and varies from school to school. what you can do right now is carefully read the FA policy at the schools you are interested in. If the school is a FAFSA only school , they are not looking for information from your NCP. However, if the school requires the CSS profile, they are looking for the ncp’s information.</p>
<p>Very true that colleges are not in the mediation business. But even when CSS is required, it is worth making the effort to talk with financial officers in person. Sometimes, for example, there are safety or psychiatric issues involving an NCP, and these can be documented and confidentially discussed. It is a lot of work and can be emotionally difficult, but if you can keep the focus, like calmom said, on “what you are able to do on your own,” you might be surprised by what you can accomplish. </p>
<p>I can’t believe anyone in a functional relationship would go through the divorce process just to save college costs.</p>
<p>“I can’t believe anyone in a functional relationship would go through the divorce process just to save college costs.”</p>
<p>While I think this is true, many savvy matrimonial lawyers do structure separation/divorce settlements to get more financial aid for the kids. </p>
<p>They may suggest filing separate tax returns when the parents are separated but not yet divorced, so the CP’s income will be used to calculate aid at FAFSA schools. (Usually, filing separately increases the total tax bill, so, but for the aid issue the attorney would not suggest it.)</p>
<p>It’s not uncommon for them to suggest that the NCP pay the CP a large lump sum rather than giving her (it’s usually a her) monthly alimony and child support in order to get more financial aid from FAFSA based schools and from state programs. (Most financial aid formulas are income-driven more than asset driven. LOTS of smaller scholarship programs that are need-based ONLY ask for certified tax returns to prove need.) </p>
<p>There are even some attorneys who will structure alimony payments to avoid paying college costs. For example, with a youngish couple, it may be suggested that the CP get a share of the NCP’s 401(K) plan at the time of retirement–which, of course, will be after all the college bills are paid. Or, since some schools don’t include the value of the family home in computing assets, the divorce agreement may provide that if the CP stays in the family home until the youngest child is 18, the CP will then get title to the home . </p>
<p>You should provide for paying college tuition in a divorce settlement. I think colleges are FAR more sympathetic to CP’s who TRIED–who got it in the divorce agreement and who have sued to get the $ --than they are to CPs who made no effort to provide for their children’s college expenses in the divorce agreement and then EXPECT that the colleges will give the kids more aid. One of my neighbors sent in a certified copy of an opinion in her divorce in which the judge said something like “While professing to love his children and fighting for custody of them, [the father] has gone to great lengths to avoid fullfilling his financial obigations to them. The Court is unimpressed by such manifestations of love when they are accompanied by a steadfast determination to hide his assets; a change to self-employment status, which was obviously done to avoid garnishment of his wages; a refusal to fill out the financial disclosure forms required by this Court, etc.” </p>
<p>Several colleges immediately waived any contribution by NCP when they got the opinion. </p>
<p>So, while I don’t think people will get divorced to avoid paying for college–after all, you can’t force married parents to pay for the college education of their kids-- I do think that it’s perfectly reasonable to expect NCPs who CAN pay to do so and examining the cases in which they refuse on a case by case basis.</p>
<p>I think you are all forgetting the custodial parents (our case) and married parents that also may refuse to pay. Getting college costs included in a divorce decree usually requires an agreement, and most custodial parents don’t want to be legally obligated years down the road any more than NCPs do. Nobody can predict what a child will do at 18 (legal age) and whether anyone should be obligated to send them to college or not. How would you like to be legally obligated to send a drug addicted drop out child to college? Or how about a child that chooses the most expensive option over a state school. No one wants open ended agreements like that, and with good reason. If you want divorced parents legally obligated to send their kids to college, how about a national law or tax for that purpose so all parents are obligated equally? I didn’t think so…</p>
<p>Bandit, those things could be anticipated in a divorce agreement. The contribution could be capped at the cost of attendance for the flagship instate U, or by some other arbitrary standard. The kid’s “eligibility” for such support could be set – example: agreement to pay for college is abrogated if kid fails to graduate from high school with a set GPA, is suspended or convicted of a crime. </p>
<p>I’d like to say that even with all of this, the situation is pretty messy. I’ve got an ex who simply does not pay even agreed child support on time - he’s currently a full year behind on payments. He is self-employed so there are no wages to garnish. I’ve chosen NOT to take him to court because when I weigh int he financial and emotional costs of doing so, its not worth it. He lives nearby and he does see the kids regularly; they know that he’s not providing financial support but I’ve encouraged them to remain cordial – its just not worth it to me for the kids to lose whatever relationship they’ve got with their father. Yeah, the guy’s kind of a flake, but he’s still their dad, and of course they also had grandparents and other relatives on his side of the family that I wanted to maintain a cordial relationship with. </p>
<p>So for me, there is nothing to document to the colleges to get a waiver – no court orders, just a long record of slow payment. I just have to marshal other resources and have a Plan B. in place. I know that the ex won’t contribute a dime toward college; what I don’t know is whether his fluctuating self-employment income will negatively affect our aid eligibility in any given year – and that is simply an uncertainty I’ve got to live with.</p>
<p>You missed the message. I said “ALL PARENTS”, not just divorced parents. Married parents can elect not to pay as well. Divorced parents have the same rights.</p>
<p>My H agreed during the divorce settlement to put his proceeds from the sale of the house into trust for the kids’ education. He was led to believe that his ex-wife was doing the same. (She remarried a few weeks after the divorce was final, and was, until two years ago, in a far better financial situation than us.)</p>
<p>Thus, imagine our surprise when the first of his two children from that marriage graduated from high school and Mom announced that she was unwilling to bear ANY of the childrens’ college costs. </p>
<p>By this time we had two more kids, and like so many other second families, were waiting for the end of child support payments to even BEGIN saving for the others’ college funds. Learning that we were solely responsibile for H’s kids’ college costs was one of our less favorite surprises.</p>
<p>H and I are the products of lower-middle-class families for whom education was considered akin to caviar – rich people seem to enjoy it but it was hardly a necessary commodity. For H and I, our near brush with being uneducated led us to value a college degree perhaps more than we should. We paid 100% of tuition, room and board, books and spending money for his kids at out-of-state schools. Their mother paid a portion of their travel costs, but only when pressed to do so. It was a strange feeling at the time to realize that I was giving something to my stepkids that I might not be able to give my biological children.</p>
<p>I know that this subject can raise blood pressures because there is so much emotion tied to divorce. Some believe that no consideration should be given to children of second families, because it is somehow presumed in our culture that a parent has chosen to “abandon” the children from the first. My H was one of those who jumped through every conceivable hoop just to remain in his kids’ lives. Interestingly, due to the times and various legal maneuvers on the mother’s part,any income of mine as well as H’s counted toward supporting my stepchildren, but neither their mother’s nor their stepfather’s income or assets came into play. </p>
<p>I know this story is not consistent with what we hear in the mainstream press, which tells us over and over again that women suffer financially from divorce and men gain. That may well be the case, statistically, but I have not seen it play out in my own situation or in that of others I know who are raising second families. The good news is that my S’s, who grew up with fewer financial advantages than their older half-siblings,(although let me be clear that no one truly suffered here) appear to be somewhat less interested in material things than are my stepkids. A surprising and completely unexpected benefit from a thorny situation! </p>
<p>Due to a completely unexpected financial success, we went from preparing to sell our house to pay for our kids’ educations and his kids’ weddings (Mom declined to help with those as well) to our first experience with that rare state: solvency. I don’t think this “happy ending” is typical, and while I fully understand some parents’ belief that the “first” kids come first, I wonder, in a society of 50%, no-fault divorce, if that notion serves us well.</p>
<p>Dizzymom, good for you; I applaud you! I have shouldered the main part of my step D’s education. She is great kid and she deserves it. It is not these kids fault that their bio parents don’t come through.</p>
<p>DizzyMom, Your situation is similar to mine. My husband had joint custody of his son and daughter and I had sole custody of my son and daughter when we married six years ago. A custody battle ensued shortly after our marriage and the judge in his “infinite wisdom” (I use that term loosely) decided to split custody of my husband’s two children. He was given full custody of his son and she their daughter. However, because of her malicious antics in court, the judge ordered her to pay attorney’s fees to us four years ago that she has made no effort to pay. His son being older has just completed his first year of college. FAFSA considered my husband and my income only because we were the household he lives in. We have paid support for his daughter for the last year since son is no longer a minor. Bio-Mom has contributed no money for her son for college expenses…now even though all financial support for son has come from us, Bio-Mom has filed for non-minor college support for her son who currently resides with us also. She stated that the money should be “put into her checking account” for his college expenses. She told her son that this wasn’t about him, she just wanted his Dad to “have to pay”. She somehow finds attorney’s that do not require her to pay them upfront and she already filed bankruptcy in 2002 to avoid paying the other three attorneys that worked for her on credit. Her bankruptcy was fraudulent as she was employed by a major company as a physicist prior to her filing and claimed that she made no money the previous years before. She now claims self-employed status so she has “nothing to show” income in court. She somehow believes we are sitting on a gold mine of some sort. The amount of money we have had to pay an attorney just to try to get this before a judge could have paid for son’s first two years of college. Meanwhile, son has already stated that he is an adult and he would like to shoulder as much of the expense for his own college as possible. He had a full tuition scholarship the first year and will work this semester to regain another full tuition scholarship. Husband and I provide a vehicle, auto insurance, medical/dental/vision insurance, room and board and other miscellaneous expenses such as clothing. I do not understand her motion seeing how she owes us over $30,xxx, has not provided financially for her own son in years and having a signed affidavit from her son whom possessed a full tuition scholarship that he wants to provide for his own.
All I can say is each situation is very very different. We shouldn’t sterotype. I was one of six kids. My three older brothers did not have college expenses. My older sister had about $4000 in student loans, my twin about double that and I about double what my twin had. But I didn’t “sue my parents” because I never thought it was their obligation to provide me assistance anyway. I teach my children that they should strive to achieve on their own, do their best and I will try to help them along the way. I hope I can financially support their college efforts but I don’t know what my financial situation will be even in the next six years. We can all plan for the best but sometimes we get challenges we cannot foresee, whether it be a medical crisis or a vengeful ex-spouse.</p>
<p>generic, I did not read through the posts, but I did read your last post. I find it strange that an attorney is willing to take on her case 1)on credit and 2) that an attorney would represent her when they find out that she did not pay several other attorney fees. Both 1 and 2 sound unusual to me, but I believe you. It is a shame that your family has to go through this, but it sounds like your step-son is quite a young man, and you must be very proud of him (as well as your other children). It sounds like he has been through a lot, and has really done exceedingly well despite it all.</p>
<p>this reminds me of my sisters friends mother…her parents obviously gave birth to her in Spain the mother of my sisters friend but left her to go to this other european country to get The chance to leave for another country and left the mom w/ her aunt they got the chance to leave went to venezuella had 5 more kids and left the mom w/ her aunt…She hasnt spoken to her mom or father for more then a few harsh words since god knows how long she grew up in In a northern town of spain…and she was funded specially to go To boarding school in Madrid…but this is all sad…She met her brothers and sisters eventually but other then that no…this abandoned child who had no child support from her actual parents she called her aunt “mom” and SHE now has a pretty young women whos intelligent went to NYU works for a magazine… she set my sister up w/ her current bf and we love him hes cool and she just happens to be one of my sisters closest friends</p>
<p>I had this problem too - I am the poor mother (not poverty level, but I make less than 10% of what the ex makes). </p>
<p>In our case, ex hubby has made LOTS of promises, but they are always carrot and stick - you do this my way and I will do this for you but otherwise forget it. We learned very early on that his promises were generally hollow and he rarely followed through.</p>
<p>As a result, early in this process, DS and I discussed this and all decisions were made assuming that he would not be participating. We did in fact try to get an answer from him…and finally, one week before drop dead decisions were due, got his answer “talk to me when its time for grad school - between what I have given your mom for child support and your grades you should be good to go”. </p>
<p>In the meantime ex hubby was pushing the biggest and most expensive schools that he could. Most of them were ones that required CSS AND the parent’s info. I swear he researched it - knowing that I would make sacrifices to take care of DS. </p>
<p>DS did pick an expensive school. He did get some money, and I wrote a letter explaining the circumstances, which probably did not help, but at least I tried. He and I have figured out how to make it work. It is going to be tight, but we can do it. I think at the end of the day he will be glad that he has some ownership in the cost of his education, and it will help keep him focused and on task. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, this is one of those “life lessons” that my son has had to learn from ex hubby, one of many. It was a little hard to, in the same weekend as asking about whether dad will help pay, watch dad buy not one but two luxury cars, and then be told that you are on your own. But this is how ex is. I encourage my kids to keep the door open and have a relationship with their dad, no matter what, but I no longer will hide or try to justify his actions.</p>
<p>kitkat82-I think it’s the life lessons our kids must learn the hard way that are the hardest for us to watch unfold. My ex-husband is an alcoholic and has chosen the alcohol over his kids. He has lost his visitation with them because of his drinking. I let the grandparents see the kids from time to time and Dad can be there but he can’t visit alone with them. I am not counting on any college money from him. He is over $20,000 behind in support now and doesn’t think he has to pay it. (the state is working to find the money he has) He is a pharmacist and makes a good salary but again, he has shown he cannot be counted on, so college will come from me and my husband and the success my children make academically on their own.</p>
<p>Oh I agree - and ultimately these dads are just hurting themselves. Our kids will do fine.</p>
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Or in our case, these moms.</p>
<p>Good point - there are plenty of deadbeat moms out there too.</p>
<p>calmom - i think you are to be applauded - absolutely. My own mother could barely make ends meet, with an absent father similar to your experience. But she did raise two kids who both went to top 10 USNWR schools - both undergrad and graduate school. It is values that are important more than anything - so again, you are to be applauded. She is the real hero in the success of both my brother and myself. For that reason, everytime I come across a story such as yours I break out into a great big smile.</p>
<p>I think it is just silly that child support ends at 18 if the child is college bound. I know that some friends have stipulations in their divorces to support such kids thru college (as well as other “extras” such as orthodontics). Most married parents don’t cut off support for their kids when they go to college (the whole point of having an EFC.), so it’s silly to think that a divorced parent can just cut off a college bound child at 18. Even parents who can’t afford to “pay” for college often still support their kids by providing room and board in their homes while their kid attends a local college. </p>
<p>Also, child support should be automatically collected thru a state-wide garnishing program so that the custodial parent doesn’t have to wait for checks – and increases in child support could be easily tied to increases in salary so that the custodial parent doesn’t have to keep spending money on attornies in order to get increases needed as child ages and cost of living goes up.</p>