<h1>117 To answer–yes, it makes me uncomfortable when non-catholics go up to communion.</h1>
<p>Of course this can’t be prevented completely, though when many non-catholics are likely to be at a mass (like a wedding or funeral or in a church visited by tourists), announcements are usually made. At my m-i-l’s funeral, there was no communion because the priest felt that an announcement could make family members feel “excluded” and many others who were not eligible for communion for various reasons were likely to come up to communion anyway. He wanted to prevent this.<br>
When I see this happen (as when my brother and his wife who is divorced and “remarried” without an annulment, and who are both ex-catholics very much involved in a protestant mega-church, feel free to take communion when they attend family weddings or funerals), I sort of cringe–but I just tell myself “they must be ignorant.”
To present yourself for communion is to say that you believe what the church teaches about communion and that you are free of mortal sin. Anyone can walk up for a blessing–signaling to the priest that they are not receiving communion by crossing their arms across their chest.</p>
<p>I’m always amazed (and not negatively, just a sense of wonder) about having conversations about Christian “doctrine” which Jesus himself would have found almost entirely incomprehensible.</p>
<p>Some people are ignorant or uninformed about taking communion in a Catholic Church.such as me. My denomination has an open table for communion, so I was an adult before I ever learned that that wasn’t the casein every church. My ostensiblyCatholic husband takes communion in my church. I wonder if that is a sin.</p>
<p>Catholics are really the only faith I know of who still “believe” in transubstantiation.</p>
<p>So, to take communion is literally the body and blood.</p>
<p>But, Catholics can take communion anywhere because they are the Christian faith.</p>
<p>Me? I stopped having a relationship with the Church when the same Priest who banned my grandmother from communion for ongoing use of birth control was found to be a practicing pedophile. Lovely. </p>
<p>I find the church to be inconsistent in its enforcement of its unbreakable rules. Anything to do with women you can rest assured they are unbendable. With men? eh. Not so much. </p>
<p>My grandfather was a devout catholic and he used to say, “There’s nothing wrong with the church that getting rid of the Priests wouldn’t fix.” I think most Catholics are more irreverent than most non catholics really understand. Few of the women I grew up with, all of them Catholic, have more than a couple of kids. </p>
<p>I really doubt the Priest is unaware of this fact.</p>
<p>“If the Eucharist was denied to all that are in a state of mortal sin, there would be very few people walking that aisle on Sunday. The Eucharist is denied to those that are KNOWN to be in mortal sin. It is really up to the sinner to acknowledge the sin, go to confession, and then feel free to receive communion.
Thing is, I don’t know one single Catholic that goes to confession on a regular basis but I know lots of them who are sexually active outside of marriage. They don’t hesitate to take communion. That’s just one example of, what I feel is a breakdown of the Catholic myth. How many Catholics use birth control? Most, I’m guessing.”</p>
<p>Forgive my inelegant explanation. Those not in a state of grace should deny themselves the Eucharist. Not to do so compounds the offense. It is absolutely up to the sinner to acknowlege his sin and seek reconciliation.</p>
<p>I am not privvy to the state of anyone else’s soul, so I cannot judge those in line for communion. I do know that very few people I know of my age were adequately catechized as children. Unless they attended Catholic schools or they addressed their formation as adults, many remain ignorant of even basic tenets of the faith. While I cannot imagine a regular Mass attending Catholic not knowing they should not be contracepting or engaging in sex outside of marriage, I also cannot imagine that they would receive the Eucharist knowing they were committing a grave offense by doing so.</p>
<p>In my parish every Saturday there is an hour or longer wait for confession every week and this is with 2 priests hearing confession. And during Advent and Lent it can be an hour and a half with 3 priests.</p>
<p>Personally, I’m not enamored of the whole concept of sin, and the idea of original sin is particularly galling to me. I also object to the entire notion that anyone can intercede for my misdeeds, and I grant no one permission to die for my so-called sins without my express consent.</p>
<p>Guess I won’t make it in Catholic circles anytime soon.</p>
<p>The priest wouldn’t take my grandmother’s confession of using a diaphram. This same Priest then did unspeakable things and went ahead and drank up all the wine at the end of the consecration… :rolleyes:</p>
<p>there are many very devout catholics and I am not in any way deriding their faith. I went to catholic school. for. ev. er. Still wish all kids had to wear those plaid uniforms to school. So adorable. Every time I see pictures of the kids in those uniforms it brings back really great memories.</p>
<p>I had great nuns as teachers, and none of them hit me with the ruler, but I was a pretty good student. I had a strong faith. Kept waiting for the stigmata during the stations of the cross. :rolleyes: (I know, Pride. what can you do?) We had a beautiful church with the stations as our stained glass windows. It was something.</p>
<p>But, in the end, the hypocrites in charge drove me off. I’m not the only one.</p>
<p>In the end, I have two daughters. I really can’t see raising girls in that faith, now. I’m just not a catholic, catechized, confirmed, blah, blah, blah or not. In the end, I just don’t believe.</p>
<p>As for Francis. I think he seems fine as far as Popes go. But, he’s a catholic. Anyone who is expecting him to approve birth control or the ordination of woman is wishing the popes had gone into the conclave and elected a liberal Episcopalian to be their new Pope.</p>
<p>The show “the borgia” is very interesting. It’s on HBO.</p>
<p>The theory goes (and confirmed, it seems, for all time, in Aquinas’ Summa Theologica that priests can be in mortal sin (and Popes can, too) and still perform all the functions of the priest-and-popehood. We might think of that as hypocrisy; the theory goes that in performing sacerdotal functions, the priest/pope is merely God’s instrument, and is untainted in doing what priests/popes do. </p>
<p>It’s not a theory that does much for me. But then, I don’t believe in priests or ministers (except that we all minister to each other.)</p>
<p>poetgirl: I’m wondering how a priest “banned” your grandmother for using birth control? (Obviously, from what you said, he was not a good priest.) I’m not sure if a priest can refuse to hear confession. Are you saying that he not grant her absolution (tell her she was forgiven) because she told him that she planned to continue using a diaphragm?</p>
<p>(Most Catholics who use contraceptives would not confess to it, because they do not believe it is a sin, they have no sorrow or regret, and no intention of stopping–so in that case they couldn’t be absolved. You have to be sorry and intend to avoid that sin in the future in order to receive absolution. So there is no point in confessing something you don’t regret and plan to keep on doing.)</p>
<p>BTW, I have met a few very bad priests in my time (thieves, molesters, etc.) and bad enough to make me want to give up on the church. However, I stay–because I feel that the good in the church outweighs the bad. I’ve also met many, many good priests and lay people who are doing their best to bring the love of Christ to the world.</p>
<p>Atommom, obviously this was a long time ago. Though not that long ago.</p>
<p>My grandmother had breast cancer. after chemo the doctors thought it best she use birth control. She agreed. She survived for a very, very long time. </p>
<p>When she went to confess, the one Saturday, the Priest refused to grant her absolution and said he would not grant her absolution for using birth control, again. After she was older, she actually went and told her confession to the Cardinal and was granted absolution.</p>
<p>For my grandmother, she wasn’t going to go and have communion without absolution. That was the way she was. When it came out that he had been a pedophile, only then did she tell that story. By then we were old enough to hear it.</p>
<p>Both of my grandparents were very devout, and I agree there are good priests. There are some truly wonderful Catholics. I’m really not deriding the faith or the faithful. Just telling my story.</p>
<p>poetgirl: I’m wondering how a priest “banned” your grandmother for using birth control</p>
<p>Setting aside the priest’s own horrific behavior…</p>
<p>A priest cannot give absolution for a confessed sin if the person states that s/he is going to purposely continue doing that particular sin. So, if an adulterer comes into the confessional and confesses, and the priest asks, “Are you going to end your affair,” and the man says, “no, I’m going to be with her tonight.” Guess what? The priest can’t give absolution. </p>
<p>That’s why a person can get absolution for - say - confessing to having had an abortion, but not for an ongoing sin. </p>
<p>In the case of the going to the Cardinal when she was much older, the mom may not have been fertile anymore and no longer using the diaphram. so, absolution can be granted. (BTW…I’m surprised that the there was much worry about fertilization. Many women go thru menopause after cancer treatments)</p>
<p>As for sinning priests and popes: Of course they sin. They’re human. The pope has a confessor. However, obviously, a priest or pope that engages in horrific behavior is especially appalling and scandalous to the faithful. Look at the fall out from the abuse issue. The faithful were scandalized. The priests lost more of their “moral authority.” </p>
<p>Mom2ck, while I generally appreciate you as a poster, there is something so know it all in your last comment on my comment that it’s very distasteful. Sad but true.</p>
<p>Good luck to all of the Catholics. I hope your pope turns out to be all that you hope for.</p>
<p>I’m not a religious expert, but I think the general principle is that you cannot be granted forgiveness for something if you plan to continue “sinning” because you can’t have contrition for a behavior that you don’t plan to stop.</p>
<p>I think in this case there was no sin, however. I’m not sure what the official position of the catholic church would be on that.</p>
<p>Again, I’m seeking information here not passing judgement. Please don’t be offended.</p>
<p>If a Catholic doesn’t agree that something is a sin (let’s take birth control as an example) he/she just doesn’t mention that during confession? If I practice birth control, I would confess other things (not treating my neighbor as myself) but not my use of birth control? Otherwise, I can’t be granted forgiveness? </p>
<p>If I’m not Catholic, why does it matter if I take communion when I visit? Apparently the concept that something is between me and God has no place in Catholicism.</p>
<p>Beil, I don’t think someone would bother going to confession if they were going to omit some of their sins. There is no desire for forgiveness when one is planning to continue commiting the sin.</p>
<p>Why do you want to receive communion in a Catholic Church? Whatever is between you and God is just fine with Catholics.</p>
<p>Poetgrl. I’m sorry if I offended you in some way. I was just offering a possible explanation as to why absolution couldn’t happen at one point, but could at another point. </p>
<p>To the casual reader, it might seem totally nuts or arbitrary that one priest wouldn’t grant absolution and then later (when mom was older), that a Cardinal did. While the priest’s personal behavior was horrible, he could have been right - churchwise - in his refusal. </p>
<p>Think about it. You have a child come to you to ask forgiveness for getting a speeding ticket, so that he can use the family car again. You ask the child if he’s going to be more careful and not speed. The child says that he intends to continue speeding. You tell him that because of his intentions, you won’t give him the car keys. A year goes by and he asks your H for forgiveness. Your son says that he’s no longer going to speed. Your H gives him the keys. </p>
<p>Collegekidsmom and those who’ve sent me private messages…thanks for your kind words.</p>